Joe H

Two or three years ago Lem's was an awfully serious place for ribs. Leon's had really good sauce, too.

At Johnny's you eat on picnic benches. Until recently the building was a cinderblock shack with the open pit in the middle of it.No inside seating only windows that you walk up to and order at. Most Charles County pits are literally cinderblock buildings with the pit attached and picnic benches outside. Few if any have inside seating of any kind.

I doubt that anyone in America and many in England who have not been to Zaika (first Indian restaurant to receive a Michelin star) can even begin to appreciate what modern, interpretative Indian cuisine can be like. Heritage of India, our best, does not even begin to approach it.

On the New Jersey board there is a post that the Pittsford store has the highest dollar volume. Is it also the largest in terms of square footage since I thought the Dulles store, at 135,000 square feet, was to be the largest? The same post also singles out the upcoming Fairfax store (which I believe is 125,000 square feet) as being even more spectacular than Dulles because of the demographics. (Surprises me since I would have thought Dulles would have had somewhat higher demos).

da Fiore Avogoria I dsagree with the above about da Fiore. We have been six or seven times over the past ten years and it has simply priced itself out of consideration. This is an excellent restaurant that Patricia Wells once called the best restaurant in Italy. It has been written up in every tourist book, raved about by Michelin (but not Gambero Rosso) and profited from the incredible popularity as a result. But today, with a rate of exchange of $1.18 to the Euro, with a medium priced bottle of wine (very high markup, even for Italy), this is now a $300+ meal for two. In 1992 it was $150 for two on our first visit when we fell in love with it. With entrees that are 45 to 50 Euros ($55 to $60) I have a different standard than when they are $25 or $30. For $300+ I would strongly suggest going to the three Michelin starred Le Calandre outside of Rubano which has the youngest three star chef ever. A prix fixe of 125 Euros, this restaurant is simply far superior to da Fiore in style and in taste. You'll also have about ten to twelve courses for this. At da Fiore several of the our meals have not lived up to the earlier ones. At the prices they are NOW (emphasize NOW, this is a restaurant whose prices have dramatically escalated as their reputation has risen) charging there is no room for error. da Fiore was once the best of Venice, one of the best of Italy. Now, we find it to be inconsistent and sadly overpriced regardless of the rate of exchange. Avogaria is the 1992 da Fiore of 2003. I would second/third the recommendations for Alle Testiere.

The best bbq in the D. C. area is in Charles County at one of several places including Johnny Boy's on route 301 in La Plata. Charles County, I believe, is the ony local jurisdiction which allows open pits and there are at least 10 to 12 if not more. Several will rival the better places in Georgia and elsewhere. Most have the ambience to match anywhere: primitive.

Steve, is there any particular reason that you seem to pick apart and criticize s many of my posts? Look at my post above again. I clearly note that it should be taken with a grain of salt since the restaurant had just opened. I also commented about early visits to Colvin Run and D. C. Coast.

I had incorrectly addressed this as a new topic to Mark. Steve thought it better to put it on this thread which gives my question a whole different perspective. I am only interested in Mark's or perhaps John's thoughts on this. In the future I will contact him directly. Thanks anyway. Sorry for the confusion that moving it to this thread has caused.

I can think of no better person to ask this question to. Although I have over 500 bottles of wine I rarely, if ever, bring a bottle of wine to a restaurant. I realize that the restaurant is dependent on a percentage of the price of a bottle of wine for their profit and hesitate to bring my own even with a corkage fee. Some restaurants such as Laboratorio have a very modest fee of $15 which is much less than what they would have for a margin on an average bottle. Similar to your's the wine list is complete and exemplery. Yet on this board, Chowhound and others I frequently read about people bringing their own bottles of wine. What are your thoughts on this? I feel that when I bring my own I am taking advantage of the restaurant unless the corkage fee is substantial. As a result I hesitate to do this. In fact the only time I have was when there were several bottles of Leonetti and I shared them.

I remember the '87 Pichon Lalande which was a terrible vintage. It sold for about $22 or 23 a bottle. Two years of bottle age and this wine was delicious. Mark, you're right about the 2002 futures. On Wine-Searcher Gruard Larose is $325, Pichon Baron $425. The Lafite price at C/W is a really good one-the lowest listed is $115 on Wine Searcher. I usually don't buy first growths but for the 2000's I have two mixed cases along with five or six other cases of what I found at various Costcos. I actually drove to Winchester for two cases of the Gruard Larose. But I felt comfortable buying since many of their prices were so low. Do you ever come across Leonetti? I've been on their mailing list for 12 years. (I traded some to Michael Franz a number of years ago-he'd never had it.) In fact I drink a lot of Washington state merlot and some cab. L'ecole 41 has had some excellent bottles in the 30 range. Some years of Leonetti ('94, '98, '99) they've been superb. I'm also big on buying cases of Chateau Ste. Michelle merlot for $10 or so a bottle and putting it away for three or four years. It actually improves and drinks like a $30 bottle with several years.

The Total coupons were an insert in the Post a week ago Sunday. They feature these inserts every six months or so but the $50 off of sale prices is a once a year feature. I noted in the Safeway near me tonight that Sebastiani cab was $19.99. Total had it for $12.99 minus the coupon which brought it down to $10.98. Last year I bought four cases of '99 Chateau Souverain merlot (WS 92 points) for about $10.75 using a similar coupon. That was smooth then; now with a year of bottle age it's even better. Arguably, as good of a $10.75 wine that I will ever taste. Locally, Giant was selling this for about $22. I also should note the reverse of this that when C/W was selling BV Rutherford '99 for $14.99 on a special Total had it for $25.99. For anyone that's interested Costco still has NOT taken delivery of its 2000 Margaux which they will sell for $299. The bargain of the year, though, was 2000 Gruard Larose for $39.99. Lafite was $299 with two cases available at Fairfax for a whole hour before it sold out. I saw both and Margaux at Hediard in Paris for about $770-per bottle.

Total has some incredible wine prices on selected wines when combined with coupons. For example Estancia cab is $10.49 and Chateau Ste Michelle merlot is $11.49. Two weeks ago in the Post there was a coupon for $50 off with $300 purchased. That's $1.79 off of the Estancia and $1.92 off of the Chateau Ste. Michelle. $8.70 and $9.57 respectively are probably close to the wholesaler's cost for wines that retail in the $16 to 18 range. While I frequently shop at C/W (and Chevy Chase, too) the 9.5% D. C. sales tax also makes a difference. For "basics" I believe Total when they do these once a year coupons is probably as good as there is in America. They expire this weekend by the way.

To continue, I believe that something like 2941 which I believe is several big steps below Maestro is probably the model for what I would think would work along with the Jaleo type I mentioned above. If it's Old Town Herndon then price is going to be a factor, something with entrees in the 22 and under range. Town Center (if something was available) would support a higher end I believe. (I am convinced that Kinkead's would have been a big success.) The weakness of the Market Street Grill is the absence of any real kind of ambience plus it's considered "the hotel restaurant" locally. There are 600 condos currently coming on the market along with another residential high rise under construction, all within one block of Town Center. Two more larger office buildings are on the drawing board along with a JW Marriott. It's one of these I would look at along with Herndon's Old Town. I actually am not convinced that there is room left in Tyson's for something like this. I really favor Reston and Old Town Herndon. The obvious problem is finding a location that opens up and justifying what would be exhorbitant rent if it's Town Center. But there will be something in a year or two when construction goes ahead on the next buildings. I would just take a serious look at them. One last thought: I mentioned a high rise under construction one block from Town Center. There's a second high rise adjacent to Town Center selling condos where ground has not yet been broken. If one of these had visible space available I believe they would be good opportunities also. But not buried in the back-there must be frontage.

2941 has one of the worst locations that I can imagine. I posted on Chowhound a year ago that I thought it would not make it because of the location. There's 50 million square feet of office space in Tyson's Corner, Reston and Herndon along with a household income in Western Fairfax County over $100,000. There are national chains including outposts of every steakhouse known to man along with more middling restaurants that I can count. Le Relais has a terrible location and until Yannick arrived I doubt that it would have made it. It's not convenient to any of the office buildings noted above-strictly a destination location. It's also buried in a nondescript shopping center. Reston Town Center while exhorbitantly expensive is also ground zero. I know that Kinkead looked here but couldn't cut a deal and Morton's moved in, which I personally thought was a poor move from management. Penang, another semi chain outpost, opens in Town Center in a couple of months just in time to compliment others like Big Bowl, McCormick and Schmick's, Clyde's, Paolo's, Rio Grande, Uno's, etc. Other than the restaurant in the Hyatt there is not a "non chain" restaurant out of the 10 or 12 that comprise Town Center. Still, I know that on Monday and Tuesday nights most of these restaurants have their dining rooms at least 3/4 full. I know this because I walk 25 to 30 miles a week and walk by them frequently (twice a week or more) at 9 and 10 at night. I haven't said a word about Friday or Saturday. I believe that if the trio that owns Ceiba/DC Coast/Ten Penh had opened in Town Center instead of 13th and G, it would be a smashing success. At 13th and G they have serious competition from Zaytinya and Cafe Atlantico among others. In Reston Town Center their style would be a winner. I also believe that Kinkead should have paid the extra and opened at Town Center rather than buried back in the building he's in. Old Town Herndon, in my opinion, would be an excellent location at reasonable rent, for a chef/owned and managed white table cloth restaurant. Current competition includes Zefferelli's, Sylvano's and the Russia House, all three of which have been there for over a decade. I am not talking about another Maestro. My real enthusiasm would be for a Jaleo, Zaytinya, Cafe Atlantico, Ceiba.

Obviously you haven't been to Maestro or, say, the Capitol Grille on a weeknight. Also, try calling L'Auberge on a Tuesday or Wednesday and asking if you can get a reservation for the same night. I believe there is more recognition on a national scale downtown but in Northern Virginia, for a top flight restaurant, there is just as much business. In the right location I AM CONVINCED THERE IS MORE, MUCH MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR A TOP FLIGHT RESTAURANT IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA. Clyde's in Reston does a higher dollar volume than the Ebbitt Grill, by the way.

It's killer if you're in D. C. If you live in Fairfax it's a real plus. Interesting that he wants to go back downtown since Friday and Saturday night have become difficult reservations there. I should also note here this "far out" and "killer" location is about two miles frrom L'Auberge Chez Francois which is one of the most difficult tables to reserve in the entire area-and has been for over fifteen years. Yannick is a big fish in Great Falls; downtown he's got some serious competition. My guess is that he believes he's capable of matching up to anyone and wants to return to the center stage again. I know that the owner of Le Relais shares the same ambitions. Together, this is a real plus for D. C. Michel could use some competition.

Thanks for the nice thought but I meant today as in currently. Sorry for my lack of clarity.

I'm a well travelled customer who has a sister that has been in the industry for twenty five years. I also worked as a waiter when I was much younger (I'm 56 today) while going to college and today know a number of people well who own and/or manage restaurants at all levels around the U. S. I also have reviewed restaurants for a trade publication in my industry. Having said all this I believe that I have seen both sides, perhaps not as fully as some, but enough to have a fundamental understanding that some customers want a great deal more power and influence than they have a right to.

Sometimes it is very difficult for someone on this side of the table to have patience and understanding for someone who stands on the other side.

It's no secret that I think Maestro is one of the best restaurants in America. I've also promoted Laboratorio and Citronelle as among the best. I say all of this because at a recent party I overheard a friend of mine, in another room, loudly complaining about the $400 she recently spent at the "overblown" Maestro. Three glasses of wine into this discussion her voice had risen and her thoughts could not be ignored. She went into some detail about leaving hungry and feeling that she could have had an even better meal at the Macaroni Grill. I heard every word of what she said. Much of it was true. She could have had a better meal at the Macaroni Grill because having grown up on macaroni and cheese, rarely eating any cheese or noodle other than that from a box, I cannot imagine her knowing the difference between Reggiano and Kraft. Kobe beef? Whether from Charlottesville or Japan this is a woman, sitting three seats down from me a year ago, that sent a steak cooked medium well back, since it was ONLY medium well. Yet with standards like this she trashed Maestro for the 10 or 12 that could not help but hear her. My guess is that at least half of them, faced with the future choice of going or not going, because of her, will not go. Here is my problem: someone anonymous, someone who typically doesn't drink wine, someone who probably does not typically visit a restaurant like Citronelle (or Maestro, Laboratorio, Cafe 15, etc.) essentially reports a negative experience on a website that is frequented by hundreds if not thousands of people. Further a second comment is added by the host to lend credence to the earlier post. Meanwhile, like my neighbor who eats Kraft macaroni and cheese almost exclusively and wouldn't recognize quattro fromaggio anything from something she's used to seeing in a box, can dissuade a group of people from going to a serious world class restaurant. This is the problem with a chat, even with a website like this. A negative post can hurt both financially and emotionally. And the negative post isn't even from a professional food critic, rather, perhaps like my neighbor, from someone who's standard is boxed macaroni and cheese. Yet, those listening to her may not have known this. Except in this instance it's someone who didn't drink wine. This is a clear danger in "chats" and in websites like Chowhound and eGullet. I believe that someone's opinion who is anonymous that their opinion should be thrown out. Seriously. There have been far too many times that someone has recommended something to me whose standard has been Olive Garden. Another friend, whose standard might have been Guido or Le Calandre should have had more weight, yet the anonimity of the website didn't allow this. My sister had a restaurant that Phyllis Richman ranked, in print, as one of her 50 favorite years ago. This was before Helen's bankruptcy. To this day (she is a successful caterer) my sister still works 70 and 80 hour weeks, every week, even after 61 years. But to be trashed because of someone's value judgments who I/we would never agree with their own standards, well, that's one thing. Certainly, one thing that's unfair. To be trashed by a professional food critic is quite another. Like my neighbor, like the anonymous writer, before credibility is given to people like this I believe that we should know a little about who they are and what their own values and standards are. On a chat like the Post's this isn't going to happen.

I also went last night, my wife and I part of a group of five that allowed us to try eight appetizers and five entrees, sharing a communal dessert. I posted several comments on Chowhound in response to John B's. post (who went with us). Generally, my comments should be taken with a tablespoon of salt since this was the restaurant's third or fourth day of operation and many things can change. I also say this since my wife and I went to Colvin Run on its second day and still haven't been back. We also went to D. C. Coast on its second day and returned nine or ten times over the next several months driving in from Reston. It will be a long time before I go back to Ceiba. Both Gus (a wonderful ambassador for the front of the room ) and Jeff Tunks were there working the bar and dining room. The bar will be a smash hit, certain to be enormously popular. Of the eight appetizers only three were noteworthy: a knockout pork shoulder served as small bites, shrimp ceviche (better than Guajillo) and the empanadas noted above. The lava bowl was a nice presentation with really flavorless glop inside nothing at all like any other queso fundido that I've ever had. The three other ceviches were merely "OK." Entrees were hugely disappointing with the most noteworthy failure (in my opinion) the vaunted red snapper vera cruz. This is a crispy whole head on fish with sauce incorporating tomatoes, olives, green pepper and so forth. At best it's only "ok." For an example of whar really good snapper verz cruz tastes like look up the May issue of Bon Appetit whose version incorporates raisons, olives, capers, tomatoes, etc. over a red snapper filet. MUCH more flavorful, deeper and more complex, if you will. I love the smoked lobster that Jeff Tunks introduced at the River Club, almost as much as Wolfgang Puck's version at Chinois. At D. C. Coast and Ten Penh my wife orders it every time. Last night his "spiny lobster" was just a pale imitation despite the deep fried spinach which accompanied it. Sugar cane shrimp were very good, a bit short of what I've had in Miami. The Brazilian shellfish stew and the fifth entree were essentially nondescript. For the bar, for three of the appetizers this restaurant will become quite popular. For the long run it can't escape the comparisons to Cafe Atlantico, perhaps even Zaytinya or Ortanique. Cafe Atlantico is much preferred by me. While I do like the amibence of Cieba I think it's not just a matter of smoothing out opening jitters. I think they need to go back and rethink many, if not most of their recipes. It's simply not in league with D. C. Coast or, even, Ten Penh. We actually had a discussion as to whether this restaurant will make it. For two years, yes. Longer, well, this lacks the promise of, say, Zaytinya. For me this is by far their weakest effort to date.

There are still a number of much smaller, "normal" sized Wegman's in the Rochester area. In fact most of the stores there are what you remember. Wegman's seems to have changed their marketing philosophy when they strayed from the upstate stores. Corning opened, I believe, in the late '80's. At the time I know there was not a Wegman's in Rochester that was anywhere near it's size. As Wegman's entered other markets they became real category killers; they became more sophisticated with the entrance into markets like Downingtown and Princeton. My expectation is that Sterling and Woodbridge, their two largest stores, will probably have several new features or elements. Anyway, Sterling officially opens in LATE FEBRUARY.

Steve, not all Whole Foods are terrible. Their Vienna outpost is really fairly good. The cheese department isn't quite on par with, say, Dean and Deluca but it's superior to the other Whole Foods in the area that I've been to. For instance although I live a mile from the Reston Fresh Fields I'll drive the six or so miles to Vienna to go to this market. (Clarendon, Wisconsin Avenue (both stores), Falls Church-Vienna really seems to be their local flagship.) Having said this, Sutton Place carries a number of brands that none of the Whole Foods carry (i.e. Mauri gorgonzola dolce) and Dean and Deluca carry a number of brands that neither Whole Foods nor Sutton Place carry. I haven't been to the Princeton Wegman's but, somehow, I still expect to have to go to several places for particular products even after it opens. About two months ago I was in Providence, RI and stopped in a fantastic Italian gourmet store on Federal Hill (whose name I just conveniently forgot!!). But this store had 20 or 25 different vintage olive oils, 30, 40 and 50 year old balsamic including both silver and gold. Not only did they have violane nano arborio but they had three different brands of it. My point is that this place was as good as anything that I have found in America. There's nothing in D. C. that can compare to it, perhaps only one or two even in New York. I don't expect Wegman's to even approach this. But for a hybrid Vienna Whole Foods/Sutton Place/Wagshal's/Giant Gourmet, etc. along with a few upstate NY brands thrown in as well as some specialties like brick oven pizza, Hermes chocolate and an in house food court (of sorts) and restaurant, well, there's nothing like it here. But my guess is that like the Providence deli there's still going to be a need to drive elsewhere. I was by the Sterling store today. Although they're running ads for various positions I would guess that they are looking at an early to mid December opening. While the building's shell and skin are finished there is just an awful lot of interior work to be done.

Pastramionrye gave you really good advice. I'd pick Obelisk first, though. $200 will give you a very warm memory. I'm not a big fan of 2941 nor Marcel's but I do like Tosca. Obelisk is just more intimate with about 40 or so seats. If you want to push it just a bit more you could do Maestro for their three course $76 prix fixe (couple of amuse tastes), reasonably priced wine @35-40 and, with tax and tip, get out for about $235-240. Under $200 stay with Obelisk.

Of course it's an Italian restaurant in the same sense that Le Calandre, Aimo e Nadia, Vissani ("blueberry lasagna") and others are rooted in tradition and use this as a foundation for cutting edge combinations and, at Maestro and Le Calandre, spectacular presentations. Even Roberto at Laboratorio has grown far beyond what might have been expected of him years ago. His duck custard brulee is one of the best things I've ever tasted, yet I cannot imagine that anyone would class this as "Italian." Still, his is an Italian restaurant. Michel Richard likewise has a French restaurant yet similar to Roberto and Fabio his, as their's, are as you say Global cuisines. Rooted in the heritage of their past. My wife and I had literally the best meal of our lives a month ago at Maestro: 22 courses and a bit over five hours. There were a half dozen dishes that had a clear "Italian heritage." Yet another half dozen that had elements, combinations, textures, contrasts that I had not experienced before or in a similar way. The balance ,interpretations of what I have had elsewhere, including Robuchon's legendary mashed potatoes. Fabio is reaching as much as almost any chef anywhere. But not into fantasy such as at El Bulli. He is more grounded in what constitutes real food, if you will. Over the next few years he will receive the credit he deserves. I personally believe it is an embarrassment that he did not receive the James Beard Award this year. At some point it will be as difficult to get into Maestro as it is at the French Laundry. It just remains for more of the national writers and some of those who actually vote for the James Beard Society to travel to Tyson's Corner and experience it. Still, it is an Italian restaurant. One that represents the same cutting edge style found in a few restaurants in Italy today. Fabio is just educating many in this country that Italian can take on many guises and tastes. Curiously, Fabio is not a "front of the room" type of chef. I think he prefers to spend as little time as possible there. Yet Emmanuele, the maitre d' and part owner, is as talented, enthusiastic and knowledgeable as anyone anywhere. One thing so many American restaurants have lacked is the ability of the restaurant's host to make eveyone feel important, to feel truly special. So very few do that here. Yet, there are some in Europe that are practiced at this, that have a talent for making every meal special to everyone. Emmanuele is like this. In fact he is as good for the front of the room as Fabio is for the kitchen and Vincent for his specialty. Together this is an extraordinary restaurant that we are fortunate to have. Along with Laboratorio two of the absolute best Italian restaurants on earth.