Joe H

McDonald's fries changed in 1967 when they stopped using fresh potatoes sliced in house with the skin left on. The potatoes were blanched and hung in a basket on a rack for hours before being fried in 70% animal fat. Until 1982 you could still get these original fries at the McDonald's in Des Plaines, IL which was McDonald's #1 (after San Bernadino). In '82 they closed this McDonald's, built a new one nearby and never served fries and their Speedee System shakes again. But there is one place on earth where you can still get the original McDonald's french fries: Dick's Drive In in Spokane, Washington. This is NOT connected to Seattle's Dick's Drive Ins. It is an independent which started in the late '50's and was known originally as Panda Drive In. The owner tried to get a McDonald's franchise for Spokane then and was turned down. He went to southern CA, worked in a McDonald's for a month or so, noted their suppliers and methods, then returned to Spokane and opened his own drive in. This was modelled exactly after McDonald's even down to a building that looks strikingly similar to an original McDonald's (#2 in Downey, CA is still there and looks exactly as it did on the day it opened in the early '50's. On the side of it is a museum dedicated to the original McDonald's that includes photographs of french fries being made prior to '67). His menu was McDonald's original menu. Everything was made EXACTLY as McDonald's made their hamburgers, cheeseburgers, french fries and shakes in the '50's ("Forty five cents for a three course meal at McDonald's"). Today, in 2003, it hasn't changed. The shakes and french fries are still made the same way although he has added, as has McDonald's, fish sandwiches and a few others. At lunchtime the "new" McDonald's two blocks away is almost empty on any given day while Dick's has lines that stretch from its walkup windows to the end of its parking lot in front 30 yards away. Just as McDonald's did in the '50's when lines stretched to the end of the arches. According to USA Today Dick's in Spokane is the United States second highest grossing independent fast food restaurant behind the Varsity in Atlanta. Anyway, you can still get McDonald's original french fries there. And, yes, they really are the best on earth. http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southw...ats/socalchains /

Flecks of coal dust are on the bottom of the crust at Pepe's. With the coal burning in the oven, right along side of the pizza, how could some of the flavor of the coal not be imparted to the pizza? Pepe's also has a different oven than Sally's. I believe that Pepe's has what is known as a "bread oven" based only on its appearance. Two or three years ago I was at Totonno's in Coney Island and was surprised that their coal oven looked nothing at all like Pepe's. I mentioned this to them and they said that their oven was built specifically to bake pizza. They didn't know about Pepe's oven but there was a bakery down the street from them that had what they described as a coal fired bread oven. I walked down the street and the oven they had described looked EXACTLY like the oven at Pepe's even down to the 10 foot long paddle. Several months later I was in South Philadelphia near 9th and Passyunk a block or two from Pat's. Walking down the street was a bread bakery that had an oven identical to the one in Coney Island, identical in appearance to Pepe's. Like Coney Island only bread came out of it. I don't know what this means but I've eaten pizzas from Pepe's and Sally's one hour apart and ended up flipping a coin for the one I liked best. Both of their crusts are superb but I personally think that Pepe's, at its absolute best, has crust that cannot be improved on. I prefer the atmosphere of Sally's especially little gestures such as spreading the tomatoes with the palm of his hand, picking out tough sections and throwing them away. I truly believe Sally's uses more oil than Pepe's MUCH MORE oil. I have also eaten pizza throughout Italy. At Il Pizzaiola in Florence two weeks ago I took photos of their wood fired oven and talked to the owner. He said that he has never heard of a coal oven in Italy. I have never seen one. His pizza was superb. Still, for me, Wooster Street has the two, perhaps three best pizzas on earth. I'm inclined to believe that one of them is baked in a "bread oven," whatever that means. I also know that I've eaten coal oven pizza at eight or nine places including Regina in the north end and Tacconelli's in Philly along with the three or four in New York. Still, I prefer New Haven. (I think there are also two in north Jersey.) Interestingly Santarpio's in Boston has a German oven (yes, a German gas oven) that looks very similar to the same revolving platform gas oven that the original Giordano's uses in Chicago. Still, when you walk in the door of Santarpio's, to the right where the charcoal pit is, there is a brick wall with a square door. It looks exactly like the photo of Sally's coal fired oven shown on page one. They told me that Santarpio's used to have a coal oven once but now only the door remains. As good as Santarpio's pizza is today I wonder what it might have tasted like thirty years ago when their coal oven still operated? I also am inclined to believe that water influences the crust-I know that the sub rolls from the Atlantic City bakery and Rando's bakery in Atlantic City which are used by the White House, when they are hot from the oven, are incredible. I've watched a 70 year old man bake the rolls at AC-I swear his sweat gets in the dough! But the rolls are incredible, in fact, among the best rolls/bread of their kind in America. And this is a gas fired oven. To come full circle the pizza dough rests on a surface in the ovens on Wooster Street, each of which is at least 70 years old. There must be some "flavor" in this surface this is imparted to the pizza. Perhaps in a principle similar to a cast iron skillet that has decades of "seasoning" the same must be true with these ovens. Part of that flavor is found in the flecks of coal on the bottom and the sides of the pie. Somehow all of this comes together in New Haven: the coal oven, the water and its influence of the dough, even the "seasoning" of these ovens which all go back at least 70 years, along with picking out hard ends of tomatoes as well as each's unique ambience and personality. I don't think anyone, anywhere else can duplicate this. In fact even though pizza may have originated in Italy the best today is still the same place its been since the '20's: Wooster street in New Haven.

I'm not familiar with that hotel-we stayed in Genoa. When you drive to La Fornace it is very, very tricky. We went in the daytime as part of just driving along the coast exploring. We were able to find it without too much trouble but I was actually rather lucky. I am not certain that if it had not been light out that I would have seen it. The key is that it is on a tiny street called Via Lazio which runs up a hillside from the road that will take you from Vado Ligure into Sant Ermete. Good luck if you go and reserve first.

There are several excellent photos on it.La Fornace Website

Under absolutely no circumstances should you miss the Michelin starred La Fornace di Barbablu in Vado Ligure. This is a 2,100 year old former Roman era furnace which produced some of the actual stone for the coliseum in Rome. Eight years ago part of it was "converted" to a restaurant and it is the most unique and interesting of any I have every been to anywhere on earth. It is romantic, intimate and small with wood beamed, stone ceilings and walls which at some places are only five feet high. The food is excellent, about what you would expect for a one star. It is virtually impossible to find but this is part of its charm and the true ADVENTURE of going and dining there. Go to the Michelin website and you can find directions by using their system. They are not 100% accurate but they will get you into the area. This is about 30 miles west of Genoa and well worth the trip. Just outside of Genoa Baldin (50 food points in Gambero Rosso) may be the city's best restaurant. 32 seats and just excellent. No star but the equal of most one star anywhere in the country. Wonderful outgoing owners who are passionate about their food and wine. But go to the Furnace. I cannot rave about this fascinating and unique restaurant enough! Not for the food (which, again, is good) but the experience which is unlike any other!!!

White German asparagus is one of the great vegetables of the world. I've been to restaurants which featured asparagus "festivals" where it might be prepared 15 or 20 different ways. Almost everyone was excellent in the several times I've done this. About Italy: I just returned from Genoa and Florence with superb meals at Baldin in Genoa and La Fournace di Barbiblu which is a 2100 year old "converted" furnace which helped supply some of the stone for Rome's Coliseum. Now it is a Michelin starred restaurant that is the most unique, original restaurant I have ever eaten in. Also the most difficult to find. I refuse to believe that El Bulli can even be AS difficult no matter what the dirt road is like that leads there! Omero in Florence was a major disappointment as was the ridiculously overpriced Garga which was featured in Savuer's December issue. I should mention that Garga's pasta dish that they are famous for IS as good as it's reputation. Unfortunately this is a one dish restaurant. Great ambience, a lot of fun, just nothing really that special for what they are charging. Il Pizzailulo (sp?) was very good but I have yet to find a pizza in Italy that can compare to Pepe's or Sally's in New Haven. I have also yet to find a coal oven in Italy, Naples included. Parione was a good value with reliable food and Badiani is the best gelato I have yet had in Italy. Still, La Fournace is a restaurant experience that those on this board should seek out. It is worth the trip for the truly unique (and romantic) experience.

Unfortunately there are now many places in the U. S. where you must pay first starting with gas stations and continuing through pay toilets. Even in Germany you leave a tip afterwads, not before. Most better American restaurants insist on either confirming a reservation by calling the diner the day of the reservation or by necessitating a call to the restaurant to reconfirm. Some restaurants that have this practice only have a couple of phone lines which make it really difficult to get through. This is a personal gripe of mine along with two and even three seatings at a better restaurant for dinner. In Europe at most better restaurants regardless of the country, the table is your's for the evening. That is definitely not true here. I have found that many restaurants throughout Europe only need a date and time and do not ask for a confirmation. Some do, especially those in Paris, but not all. My wife and I leave on a trip tomorrow through Genoa and Florence and I have five reservations including three starred restaurants. Not a single one has asked for me to reconfirm nor to guarantee with my credit card. Three of the five did ask for a fax but I am certain this is so there is no misunderstanding because I do not speak Italian. In all five I made the reservation myself so they did not even have the security of a concierge of the hotel I may be staying at.. I find this to be really refreshing. Profitable? I don't know but as much as anything this is a commentary, I believe, on the attitude of the diner and his or her respect for a restaurant there versus here where so many really don't care. I was struck that even El Bulli did not ask for a credit card confirmation although they did ask to reconfirm a week ahead, perhaps only because we are travelling from the U. S.

As I mentioned before I both called them and sent an e-mail to them several days before January 15th. I would like to believe that because of my earlier, pre January 15th e-mail, I was favored. I found out about the date itself because of my earlier contact. I also put a post on Chowhound several weeks ago about El Bulli and the correct date prior to it. I am sure that many people look at both boards plus I have always called European restaurants directly. I did think that I might be hurting my own chances but while eGullet posts the number of views Chowhound does not. I really have no idea how many people might be looking at a particular post. Even knowing the number I can only guess at how many may actually try to reserve a table and how many will try to reserve it for the same night/nights that I am trying for. At some point I made the decision that anyone who really wanted to go would just call the restaurant and my post would make little difference. But that was me that night. The night night I might have made a different decision.

The ONLY chance you have is the very first day. Another post on here mentioned that he e-mailed them on the 16th and received a message three or four days later similar to your's. He had also asked for a table for six which may have been counterproductive. I know of four separate people who have received confirmations thus far and every single one sent an e-mail (perhaps all additionally sent faxes but I am not certain of this) sometime between 12:01AM January 15th Spanish time and 10:15AM. I do not believe that any asked for more than four people and it is possible that all asked for only two. I also sent an e-mail along with a virtual "plea" several days earlier and when I sent my e-mail request on January 15th I actually did this as a response to their response to my earlier e-mail "plea." (i.e. the same thread) If I had not gotten a reservation my fall back plan-for next year=was to send a letter by Federal Express targeted to arrive the first day along with an e-mail and a fax as well as an earlier postal letter and e-mailled "plea". Additionally I was not going to specify a date-I was going to specify a MONTH. I don't think that I left out any possibility but this seemed like the only alternative if I wasn't "accepted" this time. Fortunately (famous last words!) we "got in." Somehow, that's what this now seems to be about. The fraternity of "getting in" of being accepted by El Bulli. If anyone thought the French Laundry was a difficult reservation, hah! That's the minor leagues next to this which is truly a world class effort. The worst part is that if it really lives up to the billing how the hell do I get in again!

Actually Verona is special, too. On one of our trips we spent two nights in Verona in early December while there was a kind of winter carnival going on adjacent to the coliseum. We absolutely love this city. But not the two star Il Desco which is one of the more disappointing meals that I have had. The same night that we were walking back from Il Desco we found a restaurant in a courtyard that had built a 15 foot tall Christmas tree out of wine bottles. It was incredible. We took pictures of each other in front of it, even walked into the restaurant to thank them for their imagination and "flair" in doing something like this. I don't remember their name but if we ever go back we will certainly have dinner there. Someone who cares that much would seem to be a truly talented cook, or at the least, a wino with real style. I'd like to think that I relate.

Several posts back there were some comments about Venice. I thought that I would add a little experience that my wife and I had there eleven years ago. At the time we had only known each other a few months. I had business in Vicenza and, to coerce my wife into going with me (girl friend at the time) I said we would stay in Venice. After a flight from the U. S. which was the ONLY flight landing in the worst snowstorm since the 1960's in northern Italy (not an exaggeration) we were able to rent a car. I should note here that it took me one half hour to "dig" the car out since it was under over 8" of snow. We left Malpensa, turned onto the Autostrada and my (future) wife, who had never been overseas before, suggested turning on the radio since, "we might find an all news station like Washington's WTOP." I mentioned to her that we were in Italy and, more than likely, there were no all news stations that were broadcast in English. Anyway, it took us six hours to drive the 175 miles from Malpensa to Venice. At some point the snow changed to rain and, eventually, the rain changed to drizzle. We pulled into Venice and parked in the municipal garage. I remembered that the water taxis in Venice were among the most expensive on earth from a trip several years earlier. I also felt that I knew my way around Venice. (Yeah, right!!!) I suggested to Carol that we take the vaporetto since I felt that we wouldn't need a water taxi. She asked me if I knew where the vapaoretto station was and, of course, I said yes. We had two large suitcases each and I was wearing anew black leather trench coat that I had just bought at Neiman Marcus. (I say this because it was a nice one!) Anyway, we left the garage with our luggage and it started to rain heavier. I thought that I knew where we were going and, trustingly perhaps dutifully, Carol followed me. I didn't know where I was going. I thought I did. But in truth I really didn't. After 15 minutes of wandering through the maze of streets and alleyways that are a small part of Venice Carol said to me, "Why don't you knock on a door and ask for directions?" I suggested that most Venetians didn't speak English just as there was no all news station in Milan. She didn't care and said that they could use sign language to direct us! Anyway, somehow, I found the vaporetto stop probably 500 meters from where we started. In the meantime I had ruined my new leather coat and Carol caught a cold. A bad one. At some point we walked off of the vaporetto into the lobby of the Danielli and they asked why I had not called for a boat since they usually dispatched these for their guests? Ignorance built on ignornace and obstinance can build a true mountain. Except this time it was a very deep canal in Venice. Four days later, after my future wife finally got out of bed from being sick, we walked around Venice on a foggy, chilly Saturday night in early December. They were just erecting the Christmas Tree in San Marco square. There was not a word of English or Japanese (for that matter) to be heard. We spent almost an hour finding da Fiore where we had dinner. Afterwards once again we accidentally got lost. But this time it didn't matter. In the cold mist of that night I feel in love. Not just with my future wife but with the most enchanting city on earth. We walked and walked and walked. It was quiet, lonely, eerily still. But it was beautiful. I feel in love that night. With a woman and a city. We go back every year. In fact we'll be back at the end of next week. Joe Heflin

I was at Da Michele about ten years ago and another whose name escapes me but it was ancient. Am I wrong, but isn't Neopolitan pizza from a WOOD burning oven and not a coal oven? In fact I believe that coal ovens in America were originally sold as "bread" ovens in the '20's. I went in Totonno's one time, had pizza, and after leaving walked a block or so down the street and stopped at a store that had a coal burning oven that looked exactly like Pepe's even down to the 10 foot long handles. I went back to Totonno's and asked them about it and they said, "Oh, that's a bread oven. You don't bake pizza in it." Point is that their coal oven, like Sally's, is different from the coal oven at Pepe's. I don't know what this means but Pepe's oven appears to be different from any other that I have seen. In Italy I have only really gone out of my way to look at what burns IN the oven with the pie for the last five or six years but I don't remember seeing coal in ANY oven anywhere. Am I wrong? A lot of wood just like here. But lumps of coal? I just haven't seen any. I've seen Di Fara's raved about on Chowhound for two years. I've got to go there. I've been to Patsy's, Grimaldi's, John's, Lombardy's, etc. but not Di Fara's. From what I understand it really may be the best of all. By the way for anyone that has followed this: my wife and I are back in Genoa and Florence next week for business. There is a restaurant called La Fornace di Barbablu about 70 km west of Genoa in Vado Ligure. It is absolutely intriguing. A Michelin star (for better or worse!) and it is a "converted" 2000+ year old Roman furnace that has some really sensational photos on its website. Low ceilings, a lot of stone and brick-it looks totally unique. Has anyone been there or does anyone know anything about it? www.lafornacedibarbablu.com

Steve, I've never been to Chez Black (at least not YET) but I prefer the bread in France to Italy. I do remember that one of the few things that I liked about Aimo e Nadia was their bread. In fact there was one roll that was truly exceptional. I don't remember the name but there's a bread bakery in Paris that's hundreds of years old (probably a number of these actually!) but it was just superb. In America eliminating places like D. C.' Bread Line or Berkeley's Acme (Catania in D. C. makes a great hard sub roll by the way-years ago it was on North Capitol Street) the best long "french bread style" roll that I have tasted is from either the Atlantic City Bakery or Rando's who both supply Atlantic City's White House Sub Shoppe. I actually like this over any other baguette that I have tasted here. But, in truth, I don't have an obsession with bread and probably don't have the palette to be able to judge this as others. Pizza is another matter, however. This has been a "lifelong study" of sorts for me! Sometime we have to start another thread on the US board about places like Imo's in St. Louis or the Victory Pig in Wilkes Barre or Arcaro and Genelli's in Old Forge, PA and Wells Brothers in Racine, WI which don't get the national press that Chicago, NY and New Haven do. But for pizza crust there's just nothing that I've had in Italy that can compare to Pepe's.

I apologize for joining this topic late but I believe the pizzaria you mentioned in Venice is Teatro Pizzaria. I've had pizza in Naples and actually throughout Italy going out of my way to research the best that I can find. But I honestly believe the best pizza on earth is the coal oven pizza you mentioned at Pepe's on Wooster street in New Haven. Yes, the white clam but also any pizza really since Pepe's crust for me is the finest I have tasted anywhere. I'll even go another step and say the SECOND best pizza I've ever had is 100 yards up Wooster street at Sally's Apizza which also has a coal oven. New Haven also has a couple of other places such as "The Spot" (which is actually the original Pepe's from the '20's with its own coal oven but for some reason I prefer Pepe's which honestly may be psychological but I swear it's better) and Modern. There are other outstanding coal oven pies in America including Tacconelli's in Philly, Regina in Boston and Totonno in Coney Island among others but Pepe's and Sally's stand alone as, I believe, the best anywhere. I honestly believe that the crust on Pepe's pie is almost an art form. As much as I hate to admit it I drink Diet Coke with pizza in America and Coke Light in Europe. (I can't help it but 50 years ago my taste for this was formed when I first discovered pizza and couldn't drink wine yet.) Wine? That I drink before...and after.

Does anyone have any suggestions on where to stay in Roses or on the way back from Roses to Barcelona? Does two to two and one half hours on a Sunday morning sound like a reasonable amount of time to allow to drive from Roses to the Barcelona airport? Is El Bulli really THAT difficult to find when driving? (Michelin has pretty specific directions on their website that involve about five turns after arriving in Roses.) Tarka: I'm curious-what month is your reservation for? I ask this because mine is for their second weekend of operation and perhaps they are going chronologically in sending out the confirmations. Also, how many people is your's for? Mine is for two. I know of someone else who posted that El Bulli was fully booked for the year in a response they received to their request for six on January 16th. I am wondering if having more than four people lessens the chances of getting in. Anyway, congratulations and good luck.

At Aimo e Nada I had a plate of linguine topped with white truffle shavings for 75 Euros. I had a similar plate in Firenze at a restaurant called Parione behind the Excelsior for 25 Euros. Not only was Parioni better but the "pile" of shavings was higher.

They responded by e-mail. My wife, who indulges me, thinks I am crazy but we will travel from Washington, D. C. to Roses, Spain primarily to eat at this restaurant. (Of course it is also an excuse to have a long weekend in Barcelona also.) I should note that regardless of the experience their menu (assuming I can have one) will be framed and hung on our kitchen wall. If the meal is truly worth it I will buy a nice frame.

My reservation for two was confirmed this morning. I had listed four consecutive dates and they gave us the fourth (which for us is our first choice). I sent an e-mail one week before the 15th asking for information to which they responded. When I made the initial request on the 15th I actually did this as a response to their e-mail (which was a response to mine (!). Additionally I sent a fax which took a long time to get through. I also followed these up with an additional e-mail and fax to confirm that they had received the originals. In all of these I noted that I was using both fax and e-mail so there would be no duplication. Having said all this who knows why they will pick one over another. But in my original fax I did say that we were coming from the United States to Spain specifically to eat at their restaurant. Please post when you hear from them.

This is a really interesting topic since I've travelled and eaten extensively in Italy and just returned from Aimo e Nadia six weeks ago. As part of four days of starred restaurants it ranks as not just the most disappointing restaurant of that trip but one of the most disappointing (and overpriced) of my life. The dining room is the most brightly lit that I have ever sat in. Surgery could be performed in it. The chef owner is ever present constantly moving from one table to another. Normally this is a practice that I enjoy. But he never left the dining room! I actually felt that he was looking at me and listening to see if there might be a faint moan at my first bite of a particular dish. I specifically remember worrying that he might make a comment about my leaving a bite on my plate! The night before my wife and I were in Umbria driving from Deruta (which is an interesting town in and of itself) back to Florence. There is a starred restaurant called Il Postale about 30 miles north of Perugia in Citta de Castello. About 40 seats in a converted garage. I doubt that they have ever seen a tourist. Gambero Rosso and others have written about this extensively. But unlike Aimo e Nadia which many have called one of Italy's 5 best restaurants Il Postale was the second best meal that I have ever had in Italy. Just superb. And relatively cheap. '97 Sassicaia was 130 Euros while the Milano restaurant wanted 225 for the same bottle. Prix fixe was around 45 Euros. I put a long post on Chowhound about five weeks ago about our experience there but it actually surpassed my expectations. I do tend to agree with the statement that the best food/meals, etc. are found in non-starred, more traditional restaurants that a minimum of tourists frequent. I'll actually go out of my way to AVOID a restaurant where English has a presence in the dining room. But having said this there is a restaurant in Rubano that just received its third Michelin star. It is named Le Calandre and its chef is 28 years old which must be the youngest ever. I beleive this is currently the best restaurant in Italy and possibly a worthy challenger to El Bulli, which I have not yet been to, but may this year if they ever respond to my attempts to make a reservation (!). Le Calandre is traditional in that risotto resembles risotto. Yet, as an example, the way the risotto is done is that you might have the individual kernals of arborio resting in their creamy bed but underneath is a layer of crunchy "something." A bite of arborio also raises a small portion of crunch from underneath which plays off against the creamy, kernally texture. The presentation of the risotto might also involve pieces of shellfish or meat in its own sauce being poured on top of the arborio at the table. He is also into contrasting textures as well as temperatures of food so that you might have a narrow tube with a warm liquid followed immediately by a cold liquid both coming out of the tube. I don't remember foams or the extremes that I have read about El Bulli. I just believe that Le Calandre is a good step removed from any other Italian restaurant that I have been in, imaginative with food that is absolutely delicious as well as spectacular and surprising. I have been told that he'll do a gorgonzola risotto as well as gorgonzola pasta and gorgonzola gelato all on the same menu, all using many of the same ingredients but all having "crunch" yet coming from different sources. A good friend of mine who lives in Vicenza told me that when he first started four or five years ago he made a lot of mistakes and had a lot of combinations that didn't work. The restaurant suffered because of this. But now he has learned from his mistakes and his food and style are truly extraordinary. Still, a visitor to Le Calandre from several years ago would probably be suprised to read these comments. To bring this discussion full circle sometimes I believe that it is not about the restaurant's reputation or the awards/stars/diamonds that it has earned. It is because the chef is on top of his game. The long thread on El Bulli was fascinating for the discussion of inedible dishes in 2001 yet only the year before the food was ambrosial. Aimo e Nadia may have been like this as well as many others. The neighborhood trattorias are more consistent because they tend to reproduce the same dishes night in and night out and if they are using really good basic ingredients and preparing them correctly then there is less room for error. A dish should taste the way it is expected to taste. It is possible that Le Calandre in five years may be as difficult to get into as El Bulli. It is also possible that in six it will not have been worth the effort.