Jim D.

If I knew for certain the mango is as good as Kerry says the strawberry is, I might be tempted to order some of these pastes--if others were interested in splitting containers.

I heard back, and Pastry Chef Central does not offer samples.

The MEC product looks interesting, and--for those who feel strongly about the matter--the company says it is all natural. Amoretti is a bit vague, saying its compounds are "oftentimes loaded with real fruit." The sample-size bottles I have do not have ingredient labels. Kerry, have you tried any other MEC pastes? I see they have raspberry, mango, and passion fruit, among others. I don't think raspberry and passion fruit really need too much boosting, but mango certainly does. I have written to Pastry Chef Central to see if they have sample sizes and, if I hear back, will post the answer here.

For strawberry filling for chocolates, I use a recipe based on Kerry Beal's. I find it quite flavorful, not overly sweet: Melt 300g white chocolate (I use Valrhona Opalys) and 25g cocoa butter separately. Reduce 260g strawberry purée by half, then add 75g fondant and heat. Combine the chocolate and fondant mixture (I use an immersion blender). Add the cocoa butter, then 8g of soft butter. Add 1T (or to taste) kirschwasser, 1T fruit compound (more on this below), and (if needed) 1/4t citric acid. Notes: Mostly I use frozen strawberries. They often have better flavor than fresh, especially out of season, and you can drain quite a bit of water out of them before puréeing. I agree with pastrygirl that you lose some flavor by cooking them, but the alternative is a filling that stays too soft. Ideally I would use strawberry eau-de-vie instead of kirsch, but I haven't been able to find it in a state with a government-run liquor business. Fruit compounds are a bit controversial, I gather from reading. They have a concentrated flavor that really shouts "strawberry" (or "raspberry"--though I think raspberries don't have a problem asserting their flavor). You can buy small sample bottles from Amoretti (some of them have little resemblance to the fruit, but the strawberry, raspberry, and cherry are good). Controversial because I'm not sure they are entirely "natural." If you object to "unnatural" things, then you can omit it and will still get a strong strawberry flavor. Don't be tempted to add more fruit purée; sad experience suggests that you will end up with strawberry soup. The recipe can be used for raspberry filling as well; I don't find it necessary to reduce raspberry purée (or at least not as much as strawberry).

Kerry, That's intriguing information. Can you say more about the natural colors? I had not heard about them. I have always found the smell and taste of the colored c.b. one buys in all the usual places to be offputting--much stronger than plain c.b. No customer has ever complained about the taste, but I certainly have noticed it. I have always assumed those colors were not natural, but in the interests of sanity decided not to pursue the subject too far for fear of what I might discover.

You might want to take a look at this previous thread on the subject of pairings (which focuses primarily but not exclusively on sweet rather than savory). I have gotten many great ideas for chocolate fillings from this list.

They do look spectacular. Do you mind telling what sort of frosting you are using and how you get the multi-color effects, such as in the purple with a pink edge?

Patrick, Like all your creations, that looks fantastic. Do you have room in your house for another person? And how do you stay looking like your photo with all these temptations?

One thought: As I discovered when I added pineapple to a caramel at the end, the addition (whether it's pineapple or bananas + bourbon) will bring down the temp quite substantially. If you don't cook back up to the temp you were initially aiming for, the caramel won't turn out as you expected. You may have done this, but didn't mention it in your description of what you did.

Jean-PIerre Wybauw has a very good recipe for banana-flavored caramel (intended to be piped, not firm enough to cut). The banana is puréed, and he also includes some passion fruit purée, which adds a wonderful tartness to the banana but does not overpower it.

Like you, it was eons ago that I had it; it was well before anyone had any concerns about natural flavorings. So I doubt that the flavoring was natural. I remember it as having little pieces of orange zest in it, but that could be my more-snobbish present-day taste buds thinking that. If I were making it, I would definitely include some zest and would not use orange soda flavoring. Keeping the pineapple from icing up is the big challenge, but others have already mentioned what might be done about that.

Deryn, I completely agree with your desire to "do it right" as far as ingredients go, but I can see that you don't think this ice cream is going to be a success and probably won't be something you yourself would like. Let me assure you that it is (or at least can be) delicious! It is quite common in my area (Virginia). I recall that when I had my tonsils out as a child, it was the only thing I wanted to eat. I haven't had it often since then, but I remember that it did have bits of pineapple in it and definitely tasted of orange; it was a lovely pale orange color (perhaps better not to inquire how it got that color). Of course commercial ice cream makers have at their disposal many ingredients to keep it from icing, and you probably don't want to go in that direction (see paulraphael's and JoNorvelleWalker's postings if you do). I feel sure your friend will be greatly impressed with and grateful for whatever you come up with.

Thanks, pastrygirl, for the various suggestions about the pineapple caramel. I have now made three versions and can clearly taste a winner. In version #1 (made in a panic last week and based on Kerry Beal's passion fruit caramel recipe), the pineapple is the only liquid added, and the resulting caramel is cooked briefly before being mixed with white chocolate and cocoa butter. It turned out somewhat soft but (to me) acceptable for a piped caramel. For version #2, I used my regular caramel recipe for a bonbon filling (thus moving away from the rather large amount of liquid Wybauw calls for) but substituted pineapple purée (barely chunky, mostly liquid) for the cream. As previously it took a long time to reach temp. When finished it had a faint but detectable scorched taste and smell (though I stirred constantly). There is just so much sugar in pineapple that avoiding that hazard seems difficult, at least for me. In version #3, I divided the liquid between half pineapple purée and half cream. I used the same recipe as for version #2 but added just the cream to make the caramel. I let it reach almost the end temp, meanwhile heating the pineapple. When I added the pineapple, however, in spite of all my efforts not to let the temp drop too far, it did, and the caramel again took a fairly long time to get back to temp. When I thought about it, I realized why: The caramel was around 230F, but since I could not get the pineapple above the boiling point, it was bound to lower the caramel's temp. Again, there is a very faint aroma of scorching, but it's probably not something most people would notice. The flavor is quite good, since the pineapple was not cooked so long. Conclusions: In none of the three attempts did the caramel separate (the problem that started this pineapple lament). Unless it has something to do with Wybauw's high liquid content, I still have no clue about that. Version #3 is certajnly acceptable, but I think version #1 (with the white chocolate) has the best taste. Its color leaves a bit to be desired (it's quite light in color, so the "caramelized pineapple" name I have been using for this filling might not work any longer--perhaps I could cook the caramel to a darker color before adding the chocolate), but to have a recipe that works consistently and has good flavor is crucial.

No, not at all. PDF made with Pomona's pectin (or any low-methoxyl pectin) takes a while to set up fully. The samples that I made this morning are still pipeable as they are, but that will change by tomorrow, and they will require some blitzing, probably with added alcohol. I think that in actual production it might be best to time the making of a PDF so that it would be down to room temp when it is required for a mold, thus no blitzing needed.

That is exactly what I discovered when I was adding alcohol in order to make a pate de fruit pipeable. As gap pointed out a few posts back:

The results of further experimentation with PDF using Pomona's pectin, both using the idea of adding extra sugar and 10% sorbitol by weight at the end to reduce water activity: Kalamansi: The aW reading was 0.57. This was my first attempt with a purée that is more like juice (and the Pomona's recipes make adjustments for that--though having a thoroughly jelled product is not crucial when the plan is to use an immersion blender on the PDF), so I was pleasantly surprised at the low reading. The taste is another matter: Not that it doesn't taste like kalamansi, but I neglected to read Boiron's ingredient list so did not know that it is 100% fruit (no sugar at all). After recovering from a serious case of mouth pucker, I realized that this is probably good news: adding enough sugar to make it palatable would only help keep the aW reading low. Orange: Again the aW reading was 0.57. I used frozen orange juice concentrate (no sugar added). The final taste reflects a bit of that cooked taste that frozen juice has (because it is cooked, I assume), but it's good. A little orange zest (either left whole then removed before the pectin sets or finely grated and left in--the latter would be my preference) might perk it up quite a bit. So I added some grated zest and also a few drops of lemon juice to cut the sweetness. The flavor was greatly improved, but this change resulted in an aW reading of 0.69. Instead of adding lemon juice at the end, I could have added it when the PDF was still cooking or could have used powdered tartaric or citric acid, which would not have added any liquid at all.

I have spent more time experimenting with Pomona's pectin for PDF and have some interesting results for those who might happen to share my current obsession with PDF: As stated previously, using homemade strawberry purée (made in the food processor from thawed frozen strawberries) and following the Pomona's instructions, with nothing added and no reduction of the purée produced a water activity reading of 0.95 (I am striving for a reading of <0.86). Reducing the purée by half before making the PDF, with no other changes, gave 0.94. This was a major surprise since I expected that boiling off so much water (and strawberries have a lot of it) would produce a significant change. Reducing the purée and adding extra sugar at the end (1/2 the original amount called for) produced 0.88. Clearly a move in the right direction. Reducing the purée and adding an equivalent amount of invert sugar at the end produced 0.91. Again, a surprise since invert sugar is supposed to be quite hydroscopic. Reducing the purée and adding the extra sugar plus powdered sorbitol equal to 10% of the weight of the PDF produced a reading of 0.68. Sorbitol lived up to its reputation. Perhaps it was more effective than invert sugar because it contributes more solids whereas invert dissolves into the strawberries, but that's just a guess. As for the taste: Reducing the purée obviously masks the fresh strawberry flavor to a significant degree, but because Pomona's requires only a couple of minutes of extra cooking, it isn't as major a loss as with traditional PDF. I did not detect a significant change in sweetness with the added sugar or with the sorbitol (I know many people don't like it, but aside from other considerations, I did not get any taste from it). Since my first observation above is that reducing the purée did not make a major difference, I did one more batch without reducing the purée. At the end of the cooking time (which was just a couple of minutes in all) I added an extra amount of sugar equal to all (not half) of the original amount called for, so I am doubling the sugar, and again added 10% sorbitol plus a teaspoon of lemon juice to counteract the added sugar (we are still quite far from the amount of sugar called for in a traditional PDF). The Aw reading this time was a very encouraging 0.65. The taste is the best (aside from the original with no extra sugar at all). I am reluctant to say "eureka" at this point. My purée had a lot of body because of the included fruit, and the method may not fare so well with something like a commercial frozen purée that is more like juice. Since I was pleased at the final result, I will continue experimenting and see if the method can be extended to those other types of purée. I have some kalamansi in the freezer that I don't use very often and will give that a try. I haven't mentioned the pH of the PDF since I don't yet have a way of checking that, but the final PDF was still sweet enough that I think a lot more lemon juice/citric acid/tartaric acid could be added to reduce the pH to an acceptable level for safety. I remain puzzled at Kate Weiser's pipeable purées (see photos earlier in this thread), especially the vibrant colors. Could they possibly be PDF? When she starts shipping again (at the end of the summer), I may have to purchase a box to see what I can determine. I would welcome any thoughts.

Yes, I mentioned that in the description of my second PDF (a traditional one): After adding alcohol, the Aw was 0.67 (a few hundredths lower before alcohol). Even if one allows for the fact that I boiled off more water than I should have (resulting in a too-firm PDF), the reading is certain to be in an acceptable range.

Melissa, Thanks for those helpful tips on pH paper.

Pastryani, Very nice. MIrror-like finish. Do you mind telling us how you did all this?

I have come across an article by Michael Laiskonis about PDF and its high sugar content: And he provides a very helpful chart of facts about various sweeteners.

From what the person said (in the quote above) the reading should be below 4. As I understand it, the pH strips are fairly accurate up to 4, but of course if my jelly is well above 4, I would need some accuracy in a higher range.

He calls for caramelizing 200g sucrose and 150g glucose, then quenching with 300g cream. Add 65g butter, then 160g pineapple purée and cook to 112C/234F. Note that it's unusual to add the butter so early in the process. And as I stated previously, it seems to me that there is quite a lot of liquid for the amount of sugars.

An interim report on my further efforts to get a pipeable and not-too-sweet PDF: I used Pomona's pectin for the first batch. This pectin requires much less sugar than the traditional method and cooks for only a few minutes. No question, it produces a delicious product--the essence of strawberry in this case. After 10% framboise was added, it was pipeable and still delicious. Here comes the "however" in this experiment: The Aw reading of the PDF (before and after the brandy was added) was 0.95. If we are going for a fairly low Aw, this is not an acceptable reading for a bonbon to be stored for 2-3 weeks. Still, if you are making a dessert and need a PDF to be served soon, I think Pomona's is the way to go. Second I made a traditional PDF with apple pectin, using Ewald Notter's recipe. Even though I cooked it to the recommended temp, it was too firm (I don't have a refractometer), but I added 10% brandy, then used an immersion blender on it. It came out pipeable, and the Aw was 0.67, a big difference from effort #1. But here is the "however" in this experiment: The strawberry taste was muted, the color was a dark red, and the product was very sweet--much like strawberry jelly that is over-sweetened. I do realize this is what PDF traditionally tastes like, but it does not look like the pictures from Kate Weiser, with their vibrant color. Meanwhile I came across an exchange I had on The Chocolate Life about this whole topic. The person responding sounded quite knowledgeable about shelf life issues: I am intrigued by the pH discussion (that in jelly-like substances, it is crucial, more so than water activity). I just checked the Aw reading of a sample of commercial apricot preserves (Bonne Maman brand, to be precise), and it was 0.81--better than my Pomona's effort but not great. I think most purées can take quite a lot of lemon juice/citric acid, so there is a possibility of lowering the pH of the PDF. Meanwhile replacing some of the sucrose with something like dextrose or sorbitol (as suggested by the writer mentioned above) might lower the aW reading. I don't have a pH meter, so I guess that should be the next purchase. From what I have read, they are rather finicky to use. Any suggestions for one?

My purée is chunky--deliberately so since it cooks down quite a bit during the caramelizing process. Compared to cream, it definitely has more mass and that could be a factor. I'm getting more pineapple tomorrow and will try, first, a standard caramel recipe using only pineapple purée, no cream, and second, the same recipe dividing the liquid between cream and pineapple, starting with cream and adding the pineapple toward the end (as Ruth recommended earlier today). I'll see what happens in both cases.