Chef/Writer Spencer
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Posts posted by Chef/Writer Spencer
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Taste is subjective and culturally derived.
I believe I was harping the concept of flavor. Taste, of course, is subjective.
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Flavor is not an esoteric concept. The rest of this is.
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I worked at a Russian restaurant as head chef for 5 years.
The best way to infuse vodka is with Jolly Rancher candies....green apple being the best. Some may scoff, but they have no idea. I agree with Jason though...cheap vodka sucks. Use Glacier brand--the best potato vodka I've ever tasted. Smoother than a baby's ass. Hey I'd take a frozen bottle of Glacier and a 2 dollar bag of Watermelon Jolly Ranchers over two degustations from the chef of my choice anyday.
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I can learn to develop my taste. The level of expertise and finesse that went into the meals I had, demanded that I learn. At the heart of the matter may be that I saw serious labor intensive cooking and Matthew saw only clever technique.
There's one fallacy in that last paragraph, but it's only that Adria keeps reminding you of your home planet by making clever references to the food you knew.
Michael Lewis's art analogy isn't unreasonable. One can continue to criticise any number of schools of modern art for not holding to the laws of perspective, or just accept that those artists have changed the course of art history by the number of younger artists they influenced directly and indirectly. Adria's influence is already a fact.
Food, first and foremost should taste good. It shouldn't challenge you to accept it. Food's inanimate sitting there on your plate. How dare it make you accept that your taste buds may be flawed.
Keller does the same thing with memory, except in a very classy, personable and almost loving, in the know way. How can you attribute Adria's memory games to anything you can identify with. Even Spanish spring water tastes different that it does in your country. Maybe his food reminds you of a trip to Spain...but....
The concept of food as art is absolute slander to generations and generations of cooks. Food doesn't belong on a canvas, under glass, in a museum. Food is not art. Chefs are not artists. Food is sustenance, and chefs, at their best are clarivoyants. I get real touchy when people call chefs artists. It's an extremely superficial way to think.
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BOBBY RIVERS. BOBBY RIVERS. BOBBY RIVERS. why?
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Oh I understood that just fine. If by empirical you mean experienced first-hand and then personally evaluated then I again plead ignorance. My retort was based on the opinions of a lot of el Bulli patrons who have posted on this website. No dude, I can't weigh the merits of Keller's food, his metier, his execution against Adria's but I can see a pattern. When people talk shit about Keller it usually involves not living up to an insurmountable hype but still being close to the top of the pops. When people shit talk Ferran Adria it's because they didn't like his food. There's no bias on my part here.
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I'm not the gloating kind luckily.
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Adria takes bolder moves and often ends up ass down on the carpet
Substantiate this, please.
I can only say refer to all of the reports about The French Laundry...
Then read all of the reviews of el Bulli. The numbers don't lie. And as for Adria having more bold moves than Keller I say DUH?...
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The flaw in your argument Spencer, is that MANY respected foodies and professional critics have visited El Bulli recently and enjoyed it, if not at a bare minimum appreciated Adria's talents. Just because Matthew didn't like it doesn't make it not exceptional or creative or indictative of Adria being off his game.
Personally, I can't imagine liking most of Adria's stuff, but I've never been there and I have very conservative and classical tastes in food preparations -- this however, does not mean that Adria's food is "bad" -- it is simply not to my taste, from reading some of the descriptions of his dishes. Neither is most of the stuff coming from Thomas Keller -- but I haven't been his restaurant either. Matthew, like me and everyone else, is entitled to his taste. However, one cannot deny that he is currently one of the most cutting edge and influential chefs in all of Europe, and to say that Adria is "off" because one foodie says he didn't enjoy it is purely flawed logic.
Taste is subjective. We've had this argument on this site with some pretty thick headed people about 5000 times, and every time we've arrived at the same circular futile results.
I'm not saying El Bulli sucks dude. I'm trying to get Mr. Grant some props for having a valid opinion. Because all you food gods all loved el Bulli may speak to the notion of a collective unconscienousness. The difference between Keller and Adria from what I've seen lies in consistency of perfection. Keller repeatedly nails the thing. Adria takes bolder moves and often ends up ass down on the carpet. But I'm not here to crack on Ferran. I bet I'd go and a have a world-class meal.
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I can say I've been very cautious in recommending El Bulli to anyone. I have been since before I ever ate there. From what I had read from Adria's fans and from those puzzled by the food, it was obvious it was not for every diner.
I'm sorry Matthew was one of those who probably shoudn't have gone.
A lot of Adria's food is not to "my taste," but I am eager to return a third time because I am impressed by what he is doing.
Assuming the food tasted like shit to Matthew, why do you think, from his review, that the food will taste like shit to you.
Oh Bux, you're makin' it easy...
So you say that alot of Adria's food is not to your taste, that only a certain "type" of person can enjoy his food? Is El Bulli about food to you or is it about an epic ride on the David Copperfield Express? You shouldn't have to be a certain "type" of person to enjoy El Bulli...talk about an elistist, wack-o, stance. I haven't heard that one. It should be about food, and the pursuit of flavor. If it's all about lozenges, foams, and flash bulb BS to you then it's time to waive the white flag and take your place on the back of the bus.
I have a great amount of disdain for that reasoning (not for Robert Bauxbaum, who I find to be an annoyingly good antagonist), if you can even imply that reasoning has anything to do with it. If we've got a Matthew Grant who, for all of his elistist aristrocratic tendencies, seems like a perfectly good candidate for foodie of the month March 2003 saying that El Bulli sucked I believe him. I don't believe El Bulli sucks in general (not that I've ever been there), but you got to give MG some props for being an intelligent human being...You know Adria's one of my heroes Bux...My point is--which no one here can seem to fathom--that all chef's hit a wall. But they can't quit if they've built their reputations on a certain style, so they have to push on...If you're shooting blanks then the diner will be eating them.
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Hey Alfred E. Newman Einstein,
My position is dirt dug and clear. If it tastes like shit then what worth does it have. It's food, not art, not something to be intellectualized into favor. Adria is a brilliant chef, no doubt, but like the old saying goes..."you're only as good as your last plate." Chef's burn out their own concepts all the time. If you're suggesting that M. Grant's own curmudgeon-like predispositions caused him to, in effect, not give Adria a fair shake then I can't argue with you, but you seem all ready to point to that as the only thing it could be...that would make you somewhat of a Adrian sycophant in my book.
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I think it's the opposite, I think he bared his culinary soul to you and you didn't like it. Fair enough, but you have experienced the mysterious outer limits of dining, and that alone makes it worth the trip.
Statements like this concern me. Hey you went all the way to Disneyland and all rides were fucked up but you actually made it from Seattle by foot--you should be thankful to pay for the priveledge of being on such hallowed ground. Come on Lord.
With all the respect due to one published in Restaurant Edge, I think you have misunderstood me.
What you Matthew Grant has experienced is unique. It doesn't bear comparison with anything else extant.
Matthew has had the opportunity to gambol in the fields of Adria's imagination. He didn't like it. This may or may not be germane.
My point is that Adria has earned some effort on the part of the diner, and Matthew should at least show some equanimity if he wants his views to be taken seriously.
LML,
Those big words elude my Restaurant Edge published self. Maybe I'm not that smart. The facade has been lifted. Again, I feel better. Thanks.
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I think it's the opposite, I think he bared his culinary soul to you and you didn't like it. Fair enough, but you have experienced the mysterious outer limits of dining, and that alone makes it worth the trip.
Statements like this concern me. Hey you went all the way to Disneyland and all rides were fucked up but you actually made it from Seattle by foot--you should be thankful to pay for the priveledge of being on such hallowed ground. Come on Lord.
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I'm glad to read this. Not for Adria, who I still hold in high regard, but for the movement itself. The creator has been predictably caged by his concept...or at least it sounds like the night Matthew G. ate there he was. What happens when you can't come up with dishes that fit the surreal criteria anymore? You start doing what my mentor did, bastardize your own concept with hollow mis-representation. There's too much hype and inertia built up surrounding El Bulli to ditch the gimmicks and head back to the classics. Perhaps they just had a bad night, but I'm feeling (not just from this review) we may see a shift pretty soon.
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I would go with the inexpensive knives for work and keep the nice MAC's for home. I have found that some restaurant supply houses and some kitchen shops now carry chef's coats. Go in and try on some and buy the one that fits you best. Even Williams-Sonoma carries chefs coats. I would not buy them there, but they do have them.
I totally echo this post. Why do you need Macs? You don't. They're cool as hell but kitchens are not Milanese runways, you don't have to have cool knives. In fact, I think it's cooler to own cheap beat up knives that can hold an edge than a set of Nobu autographed Voyagers. Cooking professionally ain't about looking cool. That's the chef's job--not that I look cool. I don't. I wear plastic buttoned short sleeved coats, faded ChefWear jackets and totally look down on the whole monogrammed, piped cuffs, pleated pants thing. You see a chef wearing that stuff he doesn't plan on doing a lick of cooking--unless he's Thomas Keller--who has proven that kitchen grime doesn't exist in his sphere of influence. Cooking is about the food...I do keep a heavily starched coat--with my name on it--for walks in the dining room.....
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Chinkali--lamb dumplings
Cheboriki--more dumplings
Lobio Beans--white beans with cilantro
Beet Pkaly--cooked and grated beets, cilantro, mayo, balsamic, caramelize onions, and toasted walnuts
Pickled Herring
Vareniki--dumplings like pirogies, some times filled will sweetened cream cheese and blintz filling
Gifilte Fish
Dill marinated mushrooms
Kulebyaka (Coulbiac is a French term for a Russian dish)
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eel in bamboo. that's a new one. rockin' good tony.
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A slice of claire797's bacon/chipotle cornbread, split, toasted, buttered and thickly spread with Adam's crunchy peanut butter
That sounds way too good.
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Undercooked and undersalted risotto prepared by my nitwit savant lobster killer Rob and a bottle of spring water.
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I will be in Atlanta this sunday night looking for kicks. If any brave eGulleteers want to hang out let me know. I need direction, a guide. Thanks.
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Hey,
Schielke, trade ya for some cigars? Is that what you meant...
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Bragard? Mac? You don't need all of that fancy shit. Get you a set of Forschner's and a ChefWear or ChefWorks cotton coat and go. What's with all of this elitist product pandering.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that I own 80% of MAC Knife Int.
Cool, then if I schmooze you I get Forschner prices?
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If you're working in a busy professional kitchen, the Forschners or those green-handled Italian jobbies are generally the way to go -- that way you don't have to be worried that they'll get "borrowed," damaged, etc., because they only cost twenty bucks.
Thanks for the back up
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Bragard? Mac? You don't need all of that fancy shit. Get you a set of Forschner's and a ChefWear or ChefWorks cotton coat and go. What's with all of this elitist product pandering.
El Bulli--From wonderful to absurd
in Spain & Portugal: Dining
Posted
We're still talking about 911 and it's been almost two years. I find that theory flawed, but the rest of your arguement useful and focused in the right direction. I still think, as a chef, to expect your audience to come into the dining room with some kind of intellectual zen is pretentious. What, he only wants thinkers eating there? This is the restaurant biz after all. I bet he wants all kinds of people to experience his ingenuity and metier. I know what you're saying but I can't agree. I'm a chef, one who's been cooking high end stuff for 12 years, and I'd much rather turn a sixteen year old kid on to my food than get butt smootched by one of you thinkers out there. Because in reality, it sounds like you wouldn't find my intrinsic value in my metier anyhow.
And with that I'm gone.