Suvir Saran

Pani Puri - I must say the Pani (spiced water) is one of the best I have had in NYC. The dish is prepared Bombay style. For those like me who were raised in Delhi, it is different in that the condiments are different. They are also not as spicy. But overall, I do think they do a good job with this dish. And it is consistent. Actually it is difficult to not be accurate with this dish. Not much you can spoil with experimentation. Does anyone else have the same reaction do Dimples Pani Puri? PS: Pani Puri is a deep fried whole wheat ball that is served on a plate with a glass of mint green water with spices in it. It comes with a tamarind sauce, a serving of ragda (white peas), some lentils and potatoes. You fill these into the balls by making a small opening on one side. You then dip the stuffed ball into the spiced water and eat it all in one go. It is a street side dish that happens to be one of my favorite.

Dimple is funny with Pav Bhaji.. it can go from being good to very bad. Sad but true. Did you eat Chicken Frankie in Bombay or the vegetarian version? I used to live next to Regal Cinema in Colaba and the famous Frankie Stall was just on the end of my block. The vegetarian one had just potatoes and spices.... Was nothing too great to speak of... Locals loved it.. come to t hink of it... as a student and around others, I too would get myself one every few months.... I am not much of a Frankie fan... friends tell me the chicken one is better.

But I did mean what I wrote...and it is better in life to react as one feels... I am sorry for my poor words... they were not meant to be as such. You are kind to be so generous. And thanks for the great chutney recipes...

Wow! You said it perfectly and so easily. Thanks for elevating this thread from its momentary low after my not so kind post above.

SA, You are worthy of an invitation to my home for dinner.. when you and I are each free. I have found humility when I read your posts across the site. You bring to the site and discussions great insight and depth that make eGullet that wonderful place it is. My intent was not to question your worth or your knowledge or statement. I was adding my two pennies worth. I am sorry it came across poorly. I feel worthless in having hurt your feeling. Maybe you can find some way of forgiving me for what I said... and in doing so, take me up on my offer of cooking for you.. or even PM'ng me your address and I shall send you a bottle of some chutney. And my knowledge is just as extensive as yours or anyone else I know. Nothing special, nothing different from what I have found in others that I know. You are kind to be so flattering. Not needed and certainly not true. I am sorry for having hurt your feeling and doubted your worth. It really was never meant to be what I wanted to convey. Suvir

I was there last week.. and the sales associate refused to sell me the Loomi saying they were not fresh. Lucky you that you got some fresh ones. My supply is almost over. But luckily so is the summer.. almost!

You had perfect instincts. No garlic or ginger. They take away from the dish. I have had some versions made with them and never found them tasty. Pav Bhaji is one of my all time favorit foods. If I were patient and skinny, I would cook this every day and eat it every meal. I love Pav Bhaji made with lots of butter... and love it with a salad of chilled finely diced red onions tossed with cayenne and lime juice and chopped cilantro.

Relishes (achaars, murabbas and chutneys) are served alongside to ensure that each meal has a complexity that would not be present if these relishes are not served. For fancy banquets and events, professional chefs are just as apt to serve fresh condiments are any other place?

I think you were thinking right. What people in the west associate as Chutney..... Major Grays Mango Chutney will never make it to any self-respecting Indian or chutney making cooks table. Chutneys are only ever made fresh. In fact when they are preserved, they become more like pickles and hence served as such. In Indian homes, a good meal must be presented with large varieties of chutneys and pickles. They each have their place in the diet. And they also are important to present together for one is fresh and the other preserved. Chutney and jam have nothing in common. In fact I make some chutneys that are jam like and I am embarrassed to even bring them out when feeding Indian friends. But my friends, who have lived in the West, enjoy them more than they ever do other preserved stuff. But they do understand through my telling them, that the chutneys they are eating in that jam-like consistency, could very well be just jams with spices.

Keema Thread The above thread has a recipe for Keema and other information. Keema is traditionally made with ground beef or lamb. If you want other recips for Keema, please PM me and I will be happy to send some your way. Keema is prepared on the stove top, it is quick to prepare and delicious.

Loquat Salsa (featured in article on Loquats in LA Times by Fruit Detective David Karp) 1 cup loquats, peeled, seeded and finely chopped 1 cup green papaya, peeled and shredded 1 teaspoon lemon juice pinch or two of cayenne pepper 1/4 cup fresh cilantro leaves, minced very fine 1 jalapeno pepper, stemmed and seeded 1 teaspoon toasted cumin powder 1 teaspoon sugar In a medium bowl, mix together the loquats, green papaya, lemon juice, cayenne, cilantro leaves and jalapeno. Season with toasted cumin powder and sugar. Serve as a dip, as a condiment to go with foie gras, or on a sandwich with cheese. David got the above recipe from me. I choose to call it Salsa for it makes it easier for many Americans to understand this chutney better. And when I serve it to Indians, I call it Chutney for they accept it better under that label. But either way, it is tasty and easy and addictive.

And the link below will give you an overview of some of the other chutneys commonly found in India. The list is far from extensive. But will give you a small peek into the world of chutneys. Chutneys

And as we talk of Salsa and Chutney, maybe you will find this thread on Tomato Chutney interesting. It will show you how easy and addictive Chutney and Salsa can be. Tomato Chutney

Chutney is a very free form thing as well. In fact in every Indian household, one finds a unique variety of recipes that attest to that being fact, not mere fiction. Each chef, professional cook and teenager first learning to cook, will have their own take on what a chutney should be. Chutney in hindi refers to these condiments/sauces/preserved goodies and also to the act whereby you can reduce something into a crushed mass. Often when someone is bashing another person verbally, one would say in India that a chutney is being made of the person being bashed. If someone is beaten up badly, they say that someone made a chutney out of another. And of course then there are the chutneys that are condiments. I shared this detail to show you how many ways the word itself can be used. Chutneys are made with fruits and vegetables and even herbs and spices and lentils, beans and meats.

And below is the definition from the same dictionary for Salsa: Main Entry: sal·sa Pronunciation: 'sol-s&, 'säl- Function: noun Etymology: Spanish, literally, sauce, from Latin, feminine of salsus salted -- more at SAUCE Date: circa 1962 1 : a spicy sauce of tomatoes, onions, and hot peppers 2 : popular music of Latin American origin that has absorbed characteristics of rhythm and blues, jazz, and rock And they then have a link to Sauce... and that says the below: Main Entry: 1sauce Pronunciation: 'sos, usually 'sas for 4 Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin salsa, feminine of salsus salted, from past participle of sallere to salt, from sal salt -- more at SALT Date: 14th century 1 : a condiment or relish for food; especially : a fluid dressing or topping 2 : something that adds zest or piquancy 3 : stewed fruit eaten with other food or as a dessert Below is the link from where I got this.... Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I am posting below what the Merriam Webster dictionary defines a chutney as: Main Entry: chut·ney Pronunciation: 'ch&t-nE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural chutneys Etymology: Hindi catnI Date: 1813 : a thick sauce of Indian origin that contains fruits, vinegar, sugar, and spices and is used as a condiment Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Interesting John. My definition of chutney is almost identical to your definition of a Salsa. So what makes them different?? I have asked this of several friends that cook Mexican foods and travel there quite a lot. I have realized that Salsa is to Mexico what Chutney is to India. What we have accepted as the most commonly accepted Salsa is not most often the one friends of mine that have enjoyed it in Mexico seem to have any love for. Similar is the reaction of many Indians to to Mango Chutney that many in the West have accepted as the norm for chutney. It is a fascinationg topic you have started. In fact I was working on a story about Chutneys and it has many comparisons and references to Salsa. It is intended for the US Market. And Salsa was used by me as a way of educating people about authentic chutneys.

Thanks John!

Very well said Wingding! The key is in being able to balance the many elements that elevate something tasteful to becoming awe inspiring and enchanting. One has to be blessed with a keen eye and a sensitive sense for taste itself. And then, rest is like music, fluid and soothing. Some have it, others can provide great performances, many are memorable, but not more. And those few that have the talent you speak of make each act they indulge in become memorable and infinitely enriching to all of ones senses.

Tommy have you ever had Maa Kee Dal in an Indian restaurant? It also goes as Black lentils... Dal Makhani or even Dal Bukhara..... It is a famous Indian lentil preparation. It is a favorite of Indians and non-Indians alike. In fact my having cooked this at a dinner landed me my teaching gig at NYU. Do you know this lentil? I am curious...

Steven would you be able to post the link to that original thread where the chutney/salsa topic was discussed? That would be very helpful. Or maybe John has already done the find and can post it... I will do some research myself.

John, This is a great thread. Thanks for starting it. Would you care to share though how you think Salsa and Chutney are defined? What each of them means to you? Maybe that can be a great starting point for this debate. I hope I do not sound wrong in asking you for this... My intent is to see what you think and believe and understand... and then open it to the rest of us to share our own understanding of each of these... Is that fair? Would you mind sharing those answers???

Shana tova! Robert, Thanks for that great post. I did not know about this ceremony. It is quite beautiful. We have similar ceremonies in India. It was fascinating to see the similarity. Also I take this opportunity to wish everyone.

Will do an internet search for the Banc cookbook. Thanks for the tip.