vmilor

Unfortunately the dishes mentioned by Steve are not part of your choice in the lunch menu. He has a new foie gras dish though. The thickest slab of foie gras you can think of in a sweet and sour sauce embellished by exotic fruit. Go for it over the steamed one.

Yes, It does worth a visit. A very good rendition of classical cuisine with intelligent touches.

Ballast Regime, You are making thought provoking points. When the original distinction was drawn up between PM and ren.(better call neo-classic as LML has suggested) this was formulated against a background of HAUTE CUISINE. But given the 3 criteria by which I attempted to operationalize the concept, your posting does point out at the limits of operationalization and, furthermore, it suggests an interesting extension of the concept. In a way I would argue that Mc Donald is very historical, i.e. mass marketization and the spread of franchising are all singularly time bound phemomena ,spreading "rationalization" in the Weberian sense to a new domain (George Ritzer: The McDonaldization of Society); and, transforming work relations,restructuring supply chains for the food industry and, threatening the existence of independent farmers(Eric Schlosser: Fast Food Nation). Methodologically, I am a believer in categorization/classification via formulating heuristic binary oppositions. Upon closer scrutiny these classifications may seem wanting. Some people don't believe in classifications at all; others go even further to say that these are silly constructs and they do mask rather than reveal differences in the creation of talented chefs. I respect these views. On the other hand I think of chefs as part artisans, part artists so esp. the former quality lends itself well to categorization. Personally, I had the privilege of dining in many so called HC landmarks several times and, while trying to make sense of different styles and sensibilities I noticed a meaningful divide about the chefs(which they themselves acknowledged and there really are different networks among them) and tried to bring it to the public attention. No one chef, even Adria can be said to squarely fit in one category(esp. the best of the PM chefs are well schooled in classical techniques and are very proud of their regional roots), but these categories somehow have explanatory power in that comparing some of the 2 best chefs from different traditions--say Pacaud and Adria-makes little sense. On the other hand, I am not hiding that I have personal preferences and I am worried about the fact that the center of gravity had been shifting in favor of an international, de-natured cuisine in the world of fine eating. I do not want to see the McDonaldization of Haute Cuisine.

My wife likes to torment me with difficult questions. She knows I think very highly of the institution of "sommelier" and asked me this question. Do sommeliers ever reject a bottle after they sniff and sometimes taste it? I have never seen this happening, except once at Faugerion in Paris. Yet I have never seen a sommelier taking issue with me if I found serious fault in a bottle(i.e oxidation, or corked ). At the same time I have the impression that had I not been able to detect these problems( as would have been the case 15 years ago), most sommeliers would not have alerted me. I am not talking about things like brett, volatile acidity, etc., that only more experienced tasters can detect, but outright faults. What is your experience?

Well Mr. Gault was booted out in the mid 80s and then he embarked on the ultimate journey. Mr. Millau joined him 2 or 3 years ago. Gault published a book, called "mes 50 Meilleurs restaurants de France" in 86 and he expressed a radically different set of preferences compared to the publication which carried its name. At any rate I respected them in the past when they were a progressive force, promoting an unknown Girardet. But please forgive the political analogy, the G-M now is as close to the original, as the Kennedy adm. to 1960 is to the Bush adm. in terms of humanitarian concerns. For some people this is a plus; for others it is a minus.

Who takes G-M seriously? As far as I know they both have retired and/or passed away and now under the new management they are pathetic. I believe they also accept ads for their publication.

It is a bit hard to make recommendations without knowing the person's taste. What I can say is that I have been to Veyrat twice, in 98 and last summer. His cooking has changed considerably. It is now what I called postmodern in the Symposium. The first time we were thrilled, so to speak. The second time we found that the contrast among the dishes in his grand menu symphonie was not as pronounced. The mountain herbs he used in his dishes did not have enough variation in taste to make you feel that there is a crescendo. There has also been an interesting discussion in the symposium initiated by Lizzie re. balace in a menu and I felt that his menu had aimed to startle on the spot rather than leave a long term impression. I should also add that his wine markups are the highest I have seen in any 3 stars. All this said, Veyrat is a force to reckon with in the history of haute cuisine and if I were you I would still try it. Troisgros is also very good, not far from Annecy and the cuisine is capable of doing both traditional and nouvelle dishes. Also close is Geneve/Lausanne and personally I think the trio of Rochat/Pont de Brent and Chateauvieux(a 2stars deserving 3) will appeal to anybody who appreciates refined-modern versions of classical French.

I did this posting in the new thread started by Bux under regional cuisine Spain which is a better fit. I apologize for a late response What happened is that I typed my response a few days ago. When I tried to edit it, I realized that my computer was in an overstrike mode. I didn't know how to get out of this mode, and the more I typed, the more my original message was erased... I got frustrate and deleted the whole message. Sometimes, I wish computers were never invented!!!

Is it possible to make the claim that when some chefs in Spain are looking for international recognition they are moving away from their regional roots. In my most recent trip to Donostia I noticed that Berasategui had become more" Japanese", less Basque. This was also true for Arzak with with his daughter at the helm. Unfortunately, even Zuberoa was moving in the same direction. On another note: for any meaningful comparison one has to state the baseline. Spain( and why not Hungary?) is a newcomer, so their rate of improvement will be higher than the French. My main qualm about the French is the polarization. I alluded to it. Bux thought it resonated with his own experience. Steve, in a different thread, complained about the absence of upper middle in France and hit the bull's eye. It will take a dissertation to give justice to the topic but French cuisine is threatened by this increasing polarization. Their loss will be our loss.

Peter: This is really helpful. Thank you very much.

It is a form of art one has to feel and very difficult to translate to words then. Those who translate to words(critics) will get excited when they see two new flavors put together and gradually bad money drives out good money. But there will always be some who will wage losing battles and a minority will appreciate them....

LML: If I understand you correctly you are making the counterintuitive and thought provoking point that misplaced notions on variety enabled some quasi charlatans to concoct artifical combinations(fusion?) and a gullible public mistook this for greatness. Would you please develop the argument and spell out your conception of "greatness" in cuisine? Is this an attainable ideal?

I know someone who was able to buy a case and a half of the 1958 . Problem is, my experience (ahem) is that 50% of the bottles are bad. But the bottles that are good are phenomenol. In fact I had a Rioja tasting at a friend's house a while back and I am including a link to the notes in case you never saw them; Old Rioja in Greenwich Vikkage Thanks for the link Steve. Very informative and maybe I should not feel bad that I have not had a Pingus. Wilfrid: Please start the thread. Maybe we can get some sommelier participation.

Steve P, thanks for the tips. I actually have 96 Meurs. P. Coche in my cellar and not 95 so I was very curious. My tactic with the French sommeliers is to tell them that I am very unsophisticated therefore unable to appreciate the subtleties of ,say a 94 Mongeard Mugneret they propose and insist that they uncork the 90 Jayer Brulees which is not"ready". Usually they get the message. For Arzak: I failed to snatch the 58 Riscal that Geoff Troy had the priviledge to taste and rave about. When I faxed them I requested that they make 50 and 58 available by calling the winery if necessary. This is when I had made 3 reservations over 15 days we were there in the sep. of 98. They found 50 and 64 Riserva. instead of 58. They charged $50 or $60. These were very good bottles, but 92-93 range not higher. When I was there last november they swore that they do not have any 50s from Riscal anymore. If you or I ever taste the 58 let's not necessarily expect Nirvana because there are significant bottle variations in old Riojas for reasons I do not know.

Has anbody tried 83 Chapelle Jaboulet Hermitage with 83 Chave together? I did this in 98 and the former was the clear favorite. Happy to learn it is even better now.

I see this as a general malaise afflicting some of the HC eating but I am less sure whether French are responsible for it. I think the issue is more complex. I can actually testify that in some French restaurants such as L'Ambroisie and Lucas Carton, captains were quite unhappy when they thought I ordered too much and the same thing also happened at Rochat. I also looked at the deg. menus I kept from Robuchon and they are quite reasonable. But somehow at some point a gullible public has been led to believe that a *great* dining out experience requires getting overwhelmed by the number of dim sum continental style courses and you did not get your money's worth if you are still able to breathe after the dinner. Now that John Whiting raised the analogy, I used to think that great food is the best prelude to love making but after eating in most 2 or 3 stars you are lucky if you can sleep smoothly. My best guess is that cost factors is playing a salient role in the situation. If a chef serves only 3 courses(look at Wilfred's great menus), he will have to find best quality ingredients, pay attention to the local products and seasons and execute them perfectly. They also have to confront a public who does not eat many things such as grouse, woodcock, etc. Is not it much easier to concoct a myriad of baby food, not necessarily composed of freshest ingredients, and then make them tasty by using cubes of high quality butter? (This was one of the observations which led me to compose the Post-Modern versus Renaissance or Neo-Classical cooking essay in Haute Cuisine). Unfortunatley more and more"creative" chefs are doing this and not only in France but in Italy, Spain, US etc. The observations about the fast/feast continuum are interesting. On the other hand ,and based on my observations in London, US and Paris I noticed that on the average(excepting people who are reading this note) French are least inclined to dwell in excess. The way the Parisian ladies dress also reflects the same mindset: elegant and harmonious without strong statements. Finally, of the 3 countries I have lived French seemed to be to me the most resistant not to let their traditions and standards slip even though compromise will be in their material interest. Admittedly I am simplifying and over-generalizing but I want to restore the balance given that all the contributors to the debate are non-French.

Robert, I apologize I forgot the most salient point. Sometimes I get the impression that some restaurants do not let sommeliers taste special bottles and sommeliers serve themselves more out of curiosity than other more lofty reasons. The fault lies with the restaurant owner not the sommelier. If they ask me or if I like them I am more than happy to share the bottle I ordered but I like this to be a matter of my discretion rather than theirs. Am I correct in my perception? Perhaps you can give us an insider view.

vmilor -- Given that restaurants often have a team of sommelier, how does your "bad sommelier will forever lose me" position in that context? How would you know the sommelier has not left, if you do not return? Also, Ledoyen has very good cuisine -- are you indicating that no matter how good the cuisine, you would not return? Cabrales, I judge the restaurant on the basis of whoever among the sommeliers deals with me. If they cannot answer a question, they can always ask the head sommelier. About Ledoyen: it happened twice under different regimes. It was even worse under LeSquer. I ordered a Meursault Perrieres 95 from Coche Dury. There was tremendous resistance. They recommended that I try a Henri Boillot Meursault instead because it was ready to drink. I told them that I preferred to drink the Coche Dury since I especially like his style, and I recommended that they decant it. He said they do not do this. I asKed to speak to the head sommelier. There were only 3 tables (the restaurant was 2 stars then in early 2000), but the head sommelier took his time. When he spoke to me I got the impression that he thought I had coincidentally hit on the prized bottle, and he was prejudiced against serving it to me. I did what I hated: name dropping. (I actually had met Coche Dury.) By the time they had reluctantly agreed to bring the bottle my first course had arrived. To add salt to the injury the temperature was not correct: 20 or 22 in Celcius instead of 12 or so. They decanted, put in an ice bucket, but I had to send back my shellfish. It came back reheated and overcooked. In the meantime, the chef had prepared his masterpiece turbot dish with truffles, which then had to be reheated. All in all, it was a comedy of errors. By the way the wine was outstanding: leesy, textured and intense, a perfect match with truffles. But as I said before I have also seen great sommeliers both in US and in France. They can really add or detract value to your meal. Most of them take pride in discovering little gems which are not outrageouly priced. Bobbie in FL is one of these guys and so is Jonathan at Chez Panisse and Ray at the 5th floor. I am sure there are many great ones in New York. As consumers we have to be selective and demanding in order to differentiate and reward the good ones and help their cause.

If they are performing a service and adding a value they are welcome.

There are so many interesting issues raised by Lizzie in this essay. I will arbitrarily select 3 and comment, but this is by no means an exhautive list. 1. Trama's conception of balance between 5 senses is consistent with his cooking. He does not seem to have a hierarchy. I had felt the same about his cooking, i.e. he may have given too much weight to color and texture and have relegated the flavor to the background. This may have been the Japanese influence which was apparent in the room design. I think that for a chef the flavor should come first and the other 4 senses should follow. 2. There are multiple ways to achieve equilibrium in mathematics(Nash). Same in cooking. I usually feel that menu degustations achieves an equilibrium but not the optimum (highest) one. A la carte ordering does better or worse. In the "La Belle France" example, the Taillevent captain is at fault for not having told the guest that langoustines with cabbage come with beurre blanc. I usually have the opposite experience. I am warned. Or they improvise. Let me give an example. In the summer of 2001 I had a solo lunch at Lucas Carton and ordered their new foie gras appetizer with dried fruits. Extaordinary. A huge and pink lobe with a complex, multi-colored and multi-textured sweet and spicy sauce. In the fall I was dining there with my wife and ordered the same dish along with venison chops and langoustines. First, they changed the order and brought langoustines which was a main dish before the appetizer. Second, it was the same thick and superb lobe of foie gras but with a differnt and much lighter sauce. This is because it turned out that the venison also had a very rich, sweet and spicy sauce, and it was accompanied with a giant crouton topped with dried fruit. The captain made sure that we had a harmonius meal and we progressed from the least rich to the most rich. When the bill came I also noticed that they had charged less for the foie gras than what it was supposed to be, without highlighting it. Some people complain about the "hegemony"of French cuisine, but as long as they uphold the standards, I am willing to defer. 3. Sometimes we all deviate from optimum balance, but it is a function of our upbringing and where we live. I grew up eating great fish and shellfish, and now I can not find either. In contrast, I find very good beef. So sometimes I order prawns and langoustines and spiny lobster and explain to the poor captain that I am deprived of these goodies and please don't laugh. This is a preemptive strategy. The response is invariably sympathetic to say the least. Somehow they make sure we achieve some balance in an overall skewed meal. Is this not great?

Robert, I have seen sommeliers(such as Monsieur Jambon at Faugeron) who, when they identifed a flaw in a $300 bottle they threw it out even if I would not have sent the bottle back. You may belong to this honorable category for which I hold highest esteem. But unfortunately sometimes it is the other way around: I identify a flaw and the sommelier is resistant. There are not too many sommeliers out there who will smell the bottle, see that it is not corked and than taste it , find another flaw, and warn the client. This said, nothing is more pleasant for me in a restaurant than to hit if off with the sommelier and share my wine if he/she honors me by drinking with me--either from the bottle I ordered or I brought (when I brink the bottle the first time in a reataurant and share with the sommelier I have one condition: they SHOULD charge corkage and my offer has nothing to do with it). Well in the end as it is not hard to identify good from bad wine by the aroma, it does not take more than a few minutes and exchange of a few glances to understand the sommelier's character. And to assure you Robert, a good sommelier can make me loyal client in a fine restaurant but a great restaurant with a bad sommelier(say Ledoyen) will forever lose me.

Vserna, thanks for providing crucial information. Is the overall quality of restaurants undeniably lower in France than 10 or 20 years ago? It depends on what is meant by OVERALL. If you mean the median, you are probably right, that is if somebody comes from Mars and accidentally enters in a restaurant, statistical chances are that he will eat worse today than 18 years ago(when I started dining in France). But if you factor in the upper end there may be more top places today in France than 18 years ago. This is partially because of international competition from other newcomers in Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, etc. The unfortunate thing is that there is increasing polarization in eating habits in France which is more like US and less like Italy. TonyF: what made Michelin reasonably dependable was that they did not bend to populism. The minute they star Nobu I will do probono work for Steve Plotnicki's future guide. But if they star a simple seafood restaurant in a Basque fishing village I will take my hat off.

Cabrales, I am a bit confused. What else can sommeliers do ? What other practices have you encountered? Did you mean that they are only smelling but not tasting the wine? Quite a few people can tell if a wine is corked by only smelling. This is actually why I feel a bit cheated if I order an expensive wine and when it is uncorked some heads turn (because it is aromatic) and then the sommelier helps himself to a good 2 ounces of it. Maybe FL people(Bobbie?) are trying to be polite.

Like another respondent I also was not too impressed by Zortziko last November. There were also problems with the bill which they corrected and apologized. Later, Basque friends recommended Gorrotxa for traditional cuisine. My hunch is that it is outstanding traditional cooking. Please let us know if you try it. I apologize for asking but if the walking tour does not rule out driving why are you not considering exploring Donostia at least for one of the 2 nights?

Are Michelin inspectors mid to upper level Michelin employees or are they connoiseurs who are contracted by Michelin anonymously? In a book I read by Stuart Stevens(Feeding Frenzy), he talks about a certain Monsieur Hubert who had been a Paris-based restaurant critic and had worked his way up to become one of the 30 or so inspectors. I wonder if they have a full time job doing this then. But I guess Figaro mentiones the number of inspectors as 20. 20 in France or for all of Europe? Also does anybody know whether Michelin is a family controlled small corp. or a public company with diluted ownership?