gdenby

Let me offer the results of 2 BGE/sous vide experiments I did with some "country rib" pork shoulder pieces. Perhaps this will give you some ideas. Trial one was the pieces rubbed and in the water bath for 60 hrs at 140. The packages were about a half pound each (2 "ribs.") They came out still pinkish, but starting to fall apart. They went into the BGE using a standard butt set-up, raised grill, indirect, but with the dome a little hotter than usual, around 300. After 45 min, the pieces were up in the mid 190's. They were tender, and did shred easily. The flavor was not all that intense, and there was lots of fat still to be removed. Not a good substitute for classic PP. Second time I reversed the process, which seemed to be the preferred sequence in MC. Cooked the pieces in the BGE with a standard dome of 250, and went until the pieces were 140 or more. Into the water bath, this time for 72 hrs, at 140. There was a lot of fluid in the bags at the end of the sous-vide period, as there was with the first try. (used it to make mashed 'taters. pretty good, if salty) Finished with a few minutes sear on the Egg. The pulled texture was much closer to standard PP, as was the flavor. This was better for the shoulder pieces than just doing them on the Egg. Usually, the smaller "ribs" need to be cooker hotter and faster to avoid drying out. The main question I would have about doing a whole shoulder sous-vide is how long it might take? I've never done a piece of meat bigger than 3 pounds, and that was not a tough cut like shoulder. I wonder if it might take a lot more than 72 hours. I wonder if a three part method would work well for larger pieces, something around 4 pounds? 2 hrs in the BGE, 48 hours in water bath, but surround the meat with oil in the bag so as to keep the water in, and then back onto the BGE for another 2 hours to re-build the bark. So many things to try.

<snip> ...but my understanding of cooking meat sous vide is that cooking too long leads to mushy meat, not dry meat. I thought that dryness is associated with temperature, not time? <snip> I can claim the distinction of making both dry and mushy sous vide rabbit. I had planned to serve the rabbit saddles for lunch, but was drawn away unexpectedly, and the meat went for another 4 hours. What moisture there was in the very lean meat had escaped into the bag, and the remaining flesh was a rather paste-like dry mush. I would usually have spread some oil on it, and given it a quick sear, but opted instead to make a thick mustard sauce. Edible, but not delightful. The difficulty with rabbit is that there is so little fat and connective tissue that the succulence provided by rendered fat and gelatinized collagen is almost non-existent. So after an unusually long time in the bath, the protein was so deteriorated that most the water in it was lost.

Mine are pretty much all gone to seed by now, but for a week, the seasonal treat was chive flowers broken up and used as filling in French omelettes made with duck eggs. Yum!

One of things MC notes is that using the PC will allow making the stock concentrated enough that the usual reduction by evaporation is not needed. That's a saving, because the traditional open pot method usually starts with at least 50% more water than the final stock yield. I've followed recipes that yielded 3 cups of stock from an initial 12 that took 6 hours of simmering. If you consider that there is also water in both the chicken and veggies, the standard method uses drastically more energy than the PC method to boil away the fluid. There's no reason to assume the chicken is tossed afterward. I often use my bones for a second go round, although the resultant liquid is much much less flavorful than the first. And while I will eat the used chicken, my cat won't, and that's a pretty good indication of how flavorless the meat is. As a comparison, Thos. Keller's traditional recipe starts with 5 lbs of chicken (I believe) and ends with 6 cups. Both TK & MC are making exquisite stocks, something one might be lucky to get once in a great while. As a FWIW, the clarity is supposed to result because the water in the PC is not boiling, and thus emulsifying the protein to produce cloudy stock. I've been making stock with a PC for 5 - 6 years, and mine is often cloudy. After reading MC, and some of the info over at Cooking Issues, I realize that my cooker often is boiling inside. I've paid a little closer attention to how I bring it to pressure, and noticed that if I let the temperature come up slowly, I get a small amount of steam and water dribbling from the vent. Once at pressure, I can hear the fluid inside bubbling. If I bring the temperature up rapidly, so the the indicator pops up suddenly, and then reduce the heat, I hear no bubbling. The results are clearer, tho' not as clear as I'd like.

Ground bison is fairly hard to keep moist. As above, the first thing to consider is adding butter. I've heard mentioned that "Cook's Illustrated" considered adding gelatin to ground bison. I don't know what method they might have used. I have added a bit of my own beef stock, which is heavy with gelatin, and it improved the texture, but was too strong of a beef flavor with the mild bison. I often mix it 75% - 25% with pork or lamb, which adds just enough fat to make a good burger. I find that bison tastes rather sweet, and so I sometimes add bits of dried fruits. Cherries are nice. I've also added a bit of apple wine.

I usually find some juice in the bag after doing short ribs sous-vide, and there isn't a lot of run-off when cut into. But the feel of the meat is the mouth is one of succulence. There is a sort of popping feeling when biting through, as if the flesh is still inflated. I do them longer, 72 hrs, and at temperatures from 56 to 60 C. These are ribs with bones, and there is a fair amount of gelatin evident in the meat. I have never pan seared short ribs, although I did grill some that were de-boned. Yes, they were a little chewy.

Considering that a lot of the time you won't be using the whole of that giant grill, would it not be less expensive to buy 4 22" kettles? They wouldn't have the awesomeness factor, but might be a whole lot more versatile and less expensive. Or a smoker, and 3 kettles? For a bunch of people, a couple of smoked butts goes a long way.

In regard to cooking in the kitchen, a pressure cooker. It was the first appliance I bought whose use astonished me. Store bought soups and stews immediately became a thing of the past. I regard to cooking as a whole, a ceramic cooker (BGE.) There are weeks that my kitchen range goes unused except for boiling Eggs, or making stock via the PC. Wish I lived where an outdoor kitchen was not an exercise in rigor.

One of the many reasons I bought MC was finding that there were clever uses for pressure cookers. I got a PC several years ago to make soups for my sodium restricted father. The ease and superior taste of the soup was so great that we have not bought commercial soup since. So, I've done the carrot soup, and did a variant with rutabaga. While the caramel flavor was nice, the tang of the rutabaga was cooked away. While working on potato purees, I baked some russets, and saved the skin. Used those for pressure cooked roast potato stock. It was cloudy from disintegrated starch, but the flavor was essence of baked. Looking forward to canned roux, and rendered lard.

While I to would be very cautious about getting the inside of a hot Egg really wet, I have spilled a drip pan that was about half water and half grease. It was the grease that caused the problem. Immediate fire, and then several hours of baking to reduce the stain. I have spritzed a pizza stone several times before baking bread without any problem. I forget to what "cone" the Egg is fired, but I vaguely recall it was something like 2400 F. So, that is some hard ceramic.

If the store bough is fresh, there is a small advantage. Because many spices are fairly costly, if one buys one's own supply, spices that are not much used will go stale before being used up, unless they are vacuum packed and refrigerated. But I always have on hand what I consider to be fundamental ingredients. In descending order, sugar, sweet paprika, black pepper, salt, onion powder, mustard powder, garlic powder, various chili powders, and cayenne. Of these, the first four are in the majority of all the recipes I have read.

My order for MC was delayed, and so I d-loaded the above as something to occupy me while waiting. It is a remarkable compilation, and I felt it was worthwhile reading through those methods that he regarded as fundamental to all the recipes. There are quite a number of things I have marked as something to try when I get the time. I was also interested how there is a specific name for every slight variation of a basic recipe. I wonder if that has something to do with every region having its own signature interpretation on a dish.

I've done the potato flakes, I think I posted about it uptopic. I sautéed them in butter until browned, then added to a potato purée. I thought it worked pretty well. Yes, you posted this way back on page 1! ... Ahh! I knew I had seen it somewhere. I stepped backwards through each page yesterday, but gave up around page 3. I see that the flakes in the pestle are much like what I've made. Somewhat crumbled and a little sticky. Not quite powdery. To night I experiment with Yukons that were water bathed vs. Russets that were baked.

Has anyone worked on sautéing dried potato flakes as used in one of the variations on pureed potatoes? I had come across a mention of that before getting MC, and my attempt resulted in mostly burnt flakes. I tried again yesterday, noting that the KM says to use equal weights of clarified butter and flakes. My first time around, I used a good bit less butter. My results were a lot better, but I think I used just a little too much butter. I stirred them in a heavy bottom skillet placed on a heat diffuser. I then let them sit spread on parchment in a warm oven. The flakes remained slightly oily, and never crisped enough to allow them to be powdered with a mortar and pestle. I suppose I will try crushing the flakes before hand. I also wonder if another fat taken to a higher temperature would work. Has anyone worked through the technique, and finished with a puree of the flakes?

I commented on the "MAPP, Propane or Butane" thread yesterday on the use of a heat gun as an alternative to a torch. I dug out my old paint melter, and turned it to its top setting, nominally 1000F. It toasted bread very quickly. It browned a pre-cooked bit of sausage, and I blackened a thumb sized piece of cooked chicken breat in no time. So it works, but the area that browns is fairly small, compared to what I've done with MAPP gas thru a weed burner. Good for finishing smaller items, but probably not very suitable for browning a whole roast.

I've used MAPP Pro gas, outdoors, a few times, with O.K. results. No off flavors, but it was hard not to burn the surface of the meat. I understand that lots of gas fuels have mercaptans added so that leaks can be detected, and that this odor can be passed to food. I would hope that the butane used in torches for creme brulee does not have mercaptan in it. While thinking this over, it occurs to me that I have an electric hot air gun I've used to melt paint. I will have to give it a try. If I recall, it reached obver 800 F. Not nearly as hot as burning gas, but might do the trick.

For many things, for most of the year, the item's at the farmer's market where I live are more expensive than what is available at most supermarkets. The exception is harvest time, when quite a few items are comparable, and sometimes cheaper. Notably apples, pears, potatoes, eggplant, asparagus, brussel sprouts, pie pumpkins, etc. Throughout the year, there are a few things that are comparable, and a few less expensive. Pastries and bread-stuffs and some meats are comparable, and cheese, butter, and maple syrup are less expensive. However, many of the things I buy at the farmer's markets are not available at the supermarkets. Such as: free range chickens, and their eggs, rabbits, fingerling potatoes, heirloom tomatoes, fresh lima beans, a wide variety of mushrooms, etc. So, I really can't tell if the prices are higher, because there is no competition. I do suppose that if I were on a tight budget, these things would mostly not be on my menu. FWIW, I knew a fellow who was working towards a truck farm operation. I asked him why he did not get a stall at this market, because it was year round, and not limited to the warm season as the one nearest him. He said that the stall rental was too high to make it a sure thing he would do enough business.

So as not to be too much of a heretic, I add 2 drops of habanero sauce to the ketchup. Still, as I did this my wife once told the kids "Dads weird..."

I've done scrambled sous-vide a few times the past few weeks. I've tried temperatures from 158F to 163F, and have had better results with the higher temperature. The first recipe I tried said to use 2 eggs & mush the bag after 10 minutes, and go another 15. I did, but It seemed to just break up an almost set mass. The second time I didn't, and had the result was a nice fluffy pillow of egg. The next time I did 4 eggs. Definitely should have mushed it, because at 30 minutes, the center of the mix was not set at all. A repeat with mushing worked, but left the final egg mass a bunch of large clumps. Next time, 3 eggs, 163 (+/- 2 degrees w. my controller), 35 minutes, no mushing. Produced perfectly light pillows that sat nicely on toasted English muffins. A little bland, so I will probably put a dash of cayenne in next time. As far as how much the eggs get mixed, neither my wife or children ever tolerated any specks of whites, and because scrambled eggs are one of the things my wife mostly does, scrambled at our house are always mixed until the white and yolk are completely blended.

Thanks for the reply. My guess was that doing it skin on would be the way to go, and am glad to see that works for you.

Not an answer, but a side question. Are you poaching the belly with skin on or off?

I had no problem with the price. Having worked in a small way in the production of art books, and having had a friend who collected art books until he had children to raise, the cost of MC is entirely reasonable. I've brought a few of the volumes to the museum where I work, and also to friends who are practicing painters and printmakers. Everyone has appreciated the quality. For those who cook, the "OMG" comes when they look over the parametric tables, not just the images.

I had a couple of pots like you describe. They were used a lot when we were bringing up the kids. They would barely simmer on low, and bubble pretty well on high. After several years, they would not heat up as well as when they were new. I took one apart, and found the heating coils in poor shape, sort of crystalline and covered with a white crust. I usually disposed of them when they got to the point of taking more than 8 hours on low to cook anything. As for food safety, I am not yet up enough on what all the pathogens can survive, but there is one in which the spores germinate around 180, tho' the parent microbes die at 140. My guess is that you are cooking long enough and hot enough that most everything is dead. I tested one of my newer cookers beside an older one. The older one held 140+ when on low, about 185 on high. My newer one was 180 on low, 200 on high, and 145 on keep warm.

You see, MC is not just a cook book, or a history, but also an exercise device to offset the caloric intake caused by ogling the pictures!

Yes. My first attempt gave me a pot full of carrots that were burnt on the bottom. Here is what got me towards success. I have never pressure cooked such a small quantity of vegetables without them being bathed in several ounces of water. I DOUBLED THE AMOUNT OF SALTLESS BUTTER. I turned the stove heat down so low that the burner almost went out, while keeping the pressure high. After 10 minutes, I stopped the cooking, and vented the cooker. When I opened the cooker, the carrots were sitting in a foam of boiling butter. They were well browned. I repeated the heating, checking at 15 minutes, and at 45. The carrots were not burnt. The browning is quite good. So, my comment is this. Maintain the absolute minimum flame that keeps the cooker to pressure. Add extra fat (butter) so that the carrot pieces will foam in steam bubbles while cooking.