[Can I avoid botulism by opening the bag while cooking sous side?]

I understand Botulism can develop after long sous vide cooking under vacuum sealed bags.  I understand the quick chill method and making sure fridge is cold, but I'm wondering about...

 

1.  If I don't vacuum seal the bag and seal it with water displacement method, can Botulism still develop?

 

2.  If I purposely leave a little air in the bag, can Botulism still develop?

 

3.  If I open up the bag from time to time to let oxygen in DURING the sous vide cooking, can Botulism still develop?

[Ideal internal temp for Boston butt? at 200F, came out dry!]

Thanks for the tips everyone!  Yes I did dry brine it with salt and sugar the night before.

 

I'm going to try it again, but this time with a smaller boneless Boston Butt so I don't have too much leftovers.

 

I assume it would take less time because it's smaller.

 

Should I take it off the oven right when it hits 200F? Or should I take it off at 190F because after it rests the carryover heat will bring it to 200F?

 

I will use the fork test and twist it to test for doneness as well.

[Ideal internal temp for Boston butt? at 200F, came out dry!]

What is the ideal internal temp for Boston Butt?  I'm looking for the juiciest but falling apart pork.

 

I cooked a Heritage 5 pound Boston Butt in a 300F oven for 5 hours until the internal temp was 200F.  It came out a little dry.  Some parts were OK, but it wasn't the transcendent pork I was hoping for.

 

The Momofuku Bo Saam recipe said to cook for 6 hours, but I took it out of the oven after 5 hours since I read the ideal temp is 200F.

 

If I take it out at 200F, isn't the temp going to rise another 10 or 15 degrees?

[How long can you "hold" something cooked sous vide?]

So Baldwin's guide below is not accurate?  30 days at 38F and 90 days at 36F is a long time!

 

 

1. below 36.5°F (2.5°C) for up to 90 days,
2. below 38°F (3.3°C) for less than 31 days,
3. below 41°F (5°C) for less than 10 days, or
4. below 44.5°F (7°C) for less than 5 days

[How long can you "hold" something cooked sous vide?]

I often sous vide individual portions of chicken or meat, pasteurize to the core, chill in ice bath, and leave it in my fridge.

 

How long can I leave the meat safely in the fridge?  I don't vacuum seal my meat and use a zip lock.  I don't use marinades.

 

I've read it could last anywhere from a few days to many weeks?

[Any proof that adding oil to meat cooked sous vide makes it "juicier"?]

As stated above. I too add oils to the packaging for sous vide, I was under the impression it was to aid thermal transfer. Any small air gaps are taken up by the oil. In doing a long slow sous vide with beef I add coconut oil for a Thai style/flavoured dish. In addition I think when searing post cook, it means I have an oil coating on the meat to also help searing. I match the oil to what I'm making. I've never heard that the oil is added to help moisture retention. Very minimal amounts are added.

Time to experiment with it. Parameters to test will have to be purely based on which I prefer in a blind test. I'll have to test one bag with and one bag without. Using a strong flavoured oil and test a neutral flavoured oil. On long cook and short cook. So another blind test to add to the list.

If you do a long cook for 24-48 hours with short ribs or duck legs, a lot of fat will render.  Those small air gaps you were talking about will be filled with rendered fat, and when you post sear, it will already be coated with it's natural fat.

 

While you are at it, perhaps you can do a third test with the meat covered with only plain water while you sous vide!

[The Searzall by Dave Arnold]

Since nobody's mentioned it yet, Booker and Dax set up a forum for Searzall users to ask questions and share their experiences:

http://searzallforum.freeforums.net/

 

Wow, thanks for the info!  In general do you leave the valve completely open when using the Searzall?

[The Searzall by Dave Arnold]

What are people's experience while pre seasoning the Searzall?  While pre seasoning, the flames got really big and scared the crap out of me.  They were so big they were close to touching my hand.  I still pre seasoned it for 2 minutes, but did anyone else have this experience?

 

Now I'm wondering if my Searzall is defective, or if I did something wrong.  On the benzomatic T8000 torch I turned the valve completely counter clockwise until it stops.  I followed the Searzall instructions very carefully.

 

After I pre seasoned the Searzall when I use it the flames don't get that big like they did during the pre seasoning process.  I also noticed the wire mesh is a little warped.

 

Is this normal?

 

Thanks!

[Any proof that adding oil to meat cooked sous vide makes it "juicier"?]

Make a couple batches of sous vide chicken leg 'confit'....one with water and one with fat...all else being equal...you'll quickly see what a difference cooking in fat makes in 'moisture' and texture.

You sure about that? If adding oil has no affect on moisture loss, why would water?

 

Modernist Cuisine has recipes where meat is sous vide with beef stock!  Why would they do that if water/stock would make it less moist? I understand stock may give it more flavor, but I'm only concerned with moisture loss at this point.

[Any proof that adding oil to meat cooked sous vide makes it "juicier"?]

There is a good discussion / presentation about it over on chefsteps: http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/level-up-sous-vide-presentation

So the site shows that adding oil helps with the presention of the meat.  It still doesn't say if adding oil helps keep the moisture in meat.   I guess not?

 

What if I added water instead of oil to the meat while cooking sous vide?  Would water cause any moisture loss to the meat?

[Any proof that adding oil to meat cooked sous vide makes it "juicier"?]

First of all I'm only talking about neutral tasting oil.  If adding oil doesn't prevent moisture lost from meat during sous vide, then why does Modernist Cuisine and Modernist Cuisine at Home have instructions to add Neutral Tasting Oil with meat during sous vide?

 

For example, the MC at Home Lamb Curry recipe has instructions to add neutral tasting oil with the lamb shanks and sous vide at 144F for 48 hours.

 

The MC at Home sous vide steak recipe has directions are to add neutral tasting oil to beef strip steaks and sous vide at 131F for 50 min.

 

Why did they add oil?

[Any proof that adding oil to meat cooked sous vide makes it "juicier"?]

Lots of recipes say to add neutral tasting oil to the bag when you sous vide meats.

 

Has it been proven that adding neutral tasting oil to the meat when cooking sous vide will make the meat "juicier"?

 

I often sous vide pork belly, short ribs, and duck legs without adding oil.  I usually cook it from 9-48 hours and wondering if adding oil really makes a difference. 

 

Has anyone done experiments with adding oil vs no oil, or has it been proven scientifically?

[Pork Chops]

If you are using a bone in pork chop, I found that using a lot of oil in the pan will help brown the surface more evenly.  The bone gets in the way of an even sear!

[What Are You Cooking Sous Vide Today? (Part 1)]

""  "Best" butcher in Boston ""

 

i live in the area and have for quite some time

 

" Best " is a money maker in the area for various magazines and other none such.

 

you will have to go back to the original SV thread and work your way through there and then and only then

 

will you understand SR's

 

a learning experience Id say

 

SV excels at cheaper and meaner cuts

 

you " Best " saw you and and others coming

 

Id like to hear who this "Best" is

 

PM might work.

 

thanks for the report all the same.

 

"Just for Fun: "

 

was the local cow pastured on the Common ?  after all in NE that's what they were designed for

 

 

back then

Rotuts, great to know you are from Boston!  I just sent you a PM about the butcher I went.

[What Are You Cooking Sous Vide Today? (Part 1)]

Following Modernist Cuisine, I just did a 72 hour short rib at 141F.  Came out dry!!  Anyone else have experience with this?  

 

When I test sous vide meats, I don't like to use any marinade or sauce.  This way I can really see if the meat is dry or juicy and not confuse the "juiciness" from a sauce.

 

I pan seared for about 30 seconds on each side after I sous vided the short rib and then added a little salt.

 

This short rib cost me $14 a pound from the "Best" butcher in Boston!  It is from a local cow and pasture raised.

 

If you look at the pic, you can see the meat is dry.  I chopped off the middle fat part before I ate it so I don't confuse juiciness with that large piece of fat.

[The Searzall by Dave Arnold]

I just ordered the Searzall and the benzomatic TS8000.

 

What brand of propane tank do you guys use?  They recommend using 16.4 ounce camping tanks of propane.  Where can I buy this?

 

THanks!

[Fresh Bay Leaves: The Topic]

I often have to buy fresh bay leaves for a recipe, but have lots of leftovers.  

 

What is the best way to preserve bay leaves to keep their fresh taste?

 

Should I freeze the bay leaves in the freezer by wrapping them in saran wrap then put them in a ziplock?

 

Should I make  bay leaf oil by putting bay leaves in a blender with canola oil and then freezing them?

 

Should I make a bay leaf compound butter?

 

I assume all herbs like thyme and parsley should be preserved the same way?

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

 I brought the bone back to the butcher and he said the bone looks like it's from the ham.   He apologized and gave me a full refund and said he will make sure next time I order something it will be correct. He said they were slammed the day before Thanksgiving so they must have been careless when they gave it to me.

 

I paid $80 for this cut! ($6 a pound and it was 13 pounds)

 

Thanks so much for everyone's input and now I learned a lot more about pig.  Next time I'll take a picture of the next Boston Butt I get from them.  In the past it had tons of marbling.

 

Do you think Bone In Boston Butt is better then Boneless Boston Butt?

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

Front Leg.   not many Piggies have arms.

 

note the scapula, although truth be told it might be pelvis.

 

 

Im thinking of leaning in that direction myself.

 

when the bone eventually comes out, it should have a ridge along one side to be the Scap.

 

not so the pelvis.

 

mystery continues .....

So I took some pictures of the bone.  I was so disappointed in the quality of this cut, whatever it was.  6 hours at 300F, internal temp of 200F and came out dry, not much fat, and didn't shred easily.  I'm going to complain to the butcher especially if he didn't give me the BB.  He told me it was Heritage Pork and cost me $6 a pound.

 

We these pic, can you tell what it is?  

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

most comercial BB are cut a little higher so you dont get that arm bone so much as it might be trimmed out.

Thanks for the info!  Is the meat on the arm bone more desirable then the commercial BB that's cut higher?

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

The butcher did exactly that.

It's not trimmed up like a supermarket butt end.

So what is that long bone?  Is that part of the blade or another bone?  

 

Thanks!

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

Looks like the butt end but I can't tell you exactly what all you have by just looking at a cross-section.

Here are some more pictures.  You can see there is a big long bone that runs from one end to the other end.  On another side there is some kind of blade bone.  Does this make it easier?  Really appreciate your input everyone!

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

It's from a front shoulder cut in half.

 

Sorry, I'm not familiar what the front shoulder is.  So it's not the Boston Butt or picnic?  

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

You sure its from the Leg?  They originally had a big shoulder and cut it in half and said this is the Boston Butt and the other part is the picnic.  You think they gave me the picnic or some other part?

[Is this picture a Boston Butt or Picnic?]

I just got a Boston Butt from a butcher, but now I'm not sure the butcher gave me the right cut.

 

I took a picture of what I have.  Is this the Boston Butt or the Picnic?  It's 12 pounds.  The second pic has the bone sticking out because I chopped a inch off to make a pork steak.

 

I paid $6 a pound for this Boston Butt at a famous high-end Butcher shop and he said it's from a Heritage Pig.  I thought it should have more marbling?

 

Thanks!