tchorst

Did it have the actual % listed? I've used Plugra frequently in the past and had no dryness issues, although I didn't think it was *that* dry, so it could've been a different % than you're using. Then again, in NJ humididty it's hard to keep anything dry .

The fat seems to seperate with nothing binding it. All the varieties I've tried have the same result. But once stored, they seem to hold up well.

If this is turning into a worst times thread, I forgot my boss's, wife's B-Day cake for an evening service about 2 months ago. They told me they were ready for it right after they finished their entrees. That'll teach me never to write anything down.

I first heard of Pat selling boxed selections in the restaurants he's been working in several years ago. In fact he was my inspiration almost 4 years ago to start selling a line in a restaurant I was in at the time. And he's received many kudos for this work. Nice to see him listed.

whatever. an added thought.... for my food, I know what's best. I really don't care what others use in their products. I know what makes what I do stand out. And yes, I actually use couveture for my brownies. and BTW, we weren't talking about cocoa powder, compounds or glazes.

Ted, I thought you'd be using it in bon bons or truffles. That's why I brought up adding cocoa butter. I'd still stick with a good couveture for any desserts in a pro kitchen. The low end stuff just doesn't make a good end product. But I'm of the opinion that chocolate is like wine. If I'm not going to drink(or eat) it, I'm certainly not going to cook with it. Tim

Ted, Might have something to do with the kind of cocoa butter added to the blend. The same thing that causes E. guittard to *sludge* for me has been described to me as being the type of cocoa butter used. Drew referred to it as "hard crack". Just a thought.

I just don't think you can get any good mouth feel from a chocolate with a low price break. Stuff here (near NYC) in the mid $2/lb. range just ends up acting like a tootsie roll to me. Too many added ingredients that don't melt near 98 degrees.. Tan- did you find the E. Guittard white a bit too -- bland -- for your taste? Meaning not as floral or such? Drew Schotts told me that they're formulating it to be more "neutral" in flavor kowing that the pro's would probably use it in conjunction with other things. My only gripe is how fast E. Guittard sludges up when working with it for enrobing. I always have to thin it a bit.

Hi all, I'll chime in about this also. i currently have a 2 - layer bon-bon in my selection that has a layer of fleur de sel studded caramel. It will indeed lose it's crunch over a period of a week or so, but that really doesn't bother me because it still retains that "sparkle" of flavor enlightenment against the dark and milk chocolates without the crunch. If you're storing these over a period of time, I'd go with the top coating. If you're going to be giving them out rather quickly, mix it in (my perferred method - mainly because garnishes tend to come off very easily). HTH, Tim

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or not..... but in case it was, I didn't use the revo 1. I had the x3210. It might have been a one-off thing, but mine would pull out of temper rather quickly. I could leave that little ACMC at 32 degrees for an 2 or more hours and it would stay in temper. The chocovicion would pull out after 30 or more minutes. My experience, FWIW. I ended up selling it to a friend who is a hobbiest. Actually, 1-3 pounds is not really a lot of chocolate when dipping or molding a few hundred pieces. besides, it's not like you're throwing away what's leftover...

Why is it hit or miss??? Do you understand the properties and procedures of tempering well? A machine will only do the actual turning, heating and cooling for you. You have to tell it the temperatures it needs to use, at what points, be able to tell if it needs to go up or down a 1/2 degree to work correctly and be able to decipher the problems when it doesn't work correctly (and it won't from time to time). Study , study, study...........

The ACMC is a great little machine IMHO. However, it doesn't do 10 pounds, more like 7. What's your budget? The chocovision machine is pretty good when you need to step up a little in size, but they're a little more tempermental for me. When I first started making commercial chocolates, I dipped about 2000 pieces a week out of my ACMC. In fact it still gets used ever day, and parts (motors, etc. are easy to get) So I Tempering machines are great in that they allow you to do other things while the chocolate is going through it's cycles. Plus it keeps it a workable temperature for probably as long as you'll need provided the environment co-operates. It's hard to get any machine to go down to 27.5 celcius when the kitchen is 41! I agree that if you are just tempering chocolate for an occasional thing, then do it by hand, if you're in a professional kitchen and you can afford it get a machine.

Lesley had a couple of trailing characters on her link.... this works real nice site BTW.. Tim Horst

Well, it comes out very evenly. But only slightly more than I encountered in the by-hand method. What it does mostly is allows me to do other things while it's working. It can also produce a little more than I could by hand. I go through 20 - 30 pounds in a week, so the more time I can free up the better.

Steve -- That's what I really like about forums like these.... I admit it didn't cross my mind to use an IR thermo. in those respects. Thanks for the tip !! oops, didn't notise that last line. At the moment, I'm using 3 tempering machines. Although I admit to using one more than the others. I have an ACMC table top that I think I bought back in '99 or so. It's been driving along all these years without a hiccup. I also have a small chocovision revolation, and a 10 lb. chocovision revolation. I tend to use the ACMC a little more, even though it's a little less in capacity, because it seems a little less tempermental to me than the others. Although I've heard some say they think they're the best bang for the buck. The small one doesn't get used at all hardly. For the price I think I really got my money's worth from them all. I dip and mold around 3000 pieces a week from the two of them.

Steve -- I've tended to stay away from the IR type thermometers, mainly because I've heard there may be a chance of false readings due to a difference between surface temp. and core temp. Have you encountered this? I use temperers(3) that use built in temperature control units for my work now. So I don't spend too much time with hand held thermometers anymore.

I assume you're talking about those little thermos that "beep" when ready? They won't work well, response time is to slow. The digital's that are utilized in pastry are "instant read" (or at least within a second or two). The temperature will be constantly changing, so you'll need as accurate a temp. as possible at any given moment. Each manufacturer of chocolate seems to vary their tempering temps slighlty, but these are good averages ( I always work in celsius, so the fahrenheit temps. are an approx.) : dark chocolate -- heat to 45 degrees C. (115 F.), then cool to 27.5 (82 F.) degrees C. take back up to a working temp of 31 - 32 (88-90 F.) degrees C. for white and milk -- heat to 40 degrees C (105 F.)., then cool to 26 degrees C (80 F.). take back up to a working temp of 30 degrees C (86 F.).

some thoughts: --- try to use a digital thermometer if you can, sometimes you can lose a good temper by waiting for a temperature reading on an older style thermometer. Plus, a 1 or 2 degree (F) reading can make or break it. Especially with summer coming on. --- if you have the time, and a gas oven with a pilot, let your chocolate melt in there over night. Not with the oven on, just with the pilot. To obtain the best temper, chocolate (dark) needs to remain around 115 degrees for 8 hours or so. This will allow the crystals to melt completely and will make you end product much better. --- if you don't have a marble handy, use the seeding method. Where you add tempered chocolate of the same kind to your warmed chocolate. Then continuously stir to bring the chocolate down to your desired temperature, then gradually warm to the finishing temperature. If your added peices melt away, add more. If there are any left at the end. Just remove them before using your tempered chocolate.

I've been using one of these for a little while now. Before I was using the bowl and wooden spoon method, and it is very tiring. It's primary function is not to temper, but to coat. You can use all sorts of nuts, and dried fruits etc. in it. I go through about 20 pounds of nuts in a week at my store, so it paid off for me. If it's for casual use, I'd stick to the hand method. If you're looking for a table top temperer, check out: ACMC chocovision HTH, Tim

I've only been viewing this board for a couple of weeks, but the amount of knowledge and help available here amazes me. I wish that I had found people to help like this when I was looking 12 years ago. I was a career changer too, with a love of food and a want to make a life out of it. I was forunate enough to have a friend who owned a small retsaurant that was able to give me a taste of what's invloved. And I think it really helped. I must also preface the rest of this post by saying that it also only really pertains to restaurant work. Although now I look towards the idea of opening a patissiere/ chocolatier shop, I haven't always felt this way. What instruction and schooling would I devise? For me, one of the most important aspects of pastry derives from my savory background. Like a lot of others, I started off as a line cook. And I went through the CIA as one. Although I admit while I was there I fell in love with pastry work. The fundementals of cooking are a very important aspect of pastry in the restaurant world now. I'm not saying that every pastry cook needs to know how to make a demi-glace, but learning why the caramelzation of the mirepoix deepens the flavor or how the addition of tomato products change the outcome of the product are important tools in the development understanding the science of flavor. I believe I was very fortunate to have done a stage with Craig Shelton right after school, which in turn led to a 4 year association with him that really opened my views on the science of cooking. In a nutshell, I believe that being taught the classics in pastry are important and are a foundation to expand on, but cooking in general has to be stressed also. Where would I stage? A few places for specific reasons ( and I have to limit them to the states because I heven't been able to travel much)... I already mentioned the Ryland Inn, which I would still do again. It's very hard, but like school you get what you put into it. For a business sense, I'd like to spend time at Charlie Trotters. For patissiere, wherever Pierre Herme is at that particular time . For sugar, of course I'd like to take a stage role at Ewald Notter's school for a while. And then there are some of our own. From what I saw of Micheal L. at his demo, I think I could learn quite a bit from him. And as well as from Patrice Demers. What restaurants etc.? I can';t think of any I don't want to visit I love eating! What books would I use, and should be read? Because I believe in a foundation to expand on, learning and reading the classics are vital. The French pastry series, Yves Thuries, Michel Roux.... some of it may seem dated, but all of these classics can still be seen in almost all of what we do in some way. Of course Pierre Herme's pro series, I also am found of all of Charlie Trotters books, plus Michel Bra's notebook, and his savory cookbooks. For periodicals I like Thuries' magazine when I can get it, Art Culinaire to see what else is in the world, PA&D to see what is going on here...that's about it. What wouldn't I do? Dismiss anyone without trying to derive as much as I can from them. They may be crappy, but from them I can learn how not to be Realistically, I believe there is something to be learned from everyone. It's just picking the ones to model that's important. How much money, time, effort would I spend? Hmmm.. I've already spent quite a bit of money, and devote almost all of my time to pastry. I don't believe I would change that. Even the couple of years where I took time off from burnout. It helped recharge my batteries and I believe gave me a better focus on what I wanted to produce. Drawbacks? I think the only one may be a feeling of being behind others in learning. But I think that's a mis-guided notion. I've had some people work for me that had been doing this for longer than I and just didn't give 115%, and other newbies that gave 220%. It's all what you put into it. There's no time like the present to start. Tim Horst

nightscotsman, After 12 years in pastry, I still spend most of my time thinking about it. I took a little time off in the late nineties to take an easy desk job, but still went back after two years. It's something that's in you. I'm of the opinion that you should get your feet wet before entering a school. I've hired a lot of people out of school who couldn't keep up the pace and enthusiasm for long. I think the drive to seek out good people to work for and learn from shows in those self-taught. For the older career changers, I'd probably be more apt to hire one with new practical experience than a newly schooled cook. If you know what interests you, seek out those that are the best at it and learn from them. Whether it's restaurant, patissiere, sugar or chocolate work. That's where the specialized schools come in, like the French Pastry School in Chicago. On the other hand, I thought the best thing about a culinary school was the enormous amount of information on hand, both print and from instructors. It's a great memory for me. Just my two cents, hope this helps... Tim Horst

thanks for the info, I'll have to find the time to go check them out!

I've never had Thomas Sweet. where is that located? My time is limited, so I pretty much just end up just eating my own ice cream. Which might be considered a hazard of the trade ..... I'm the Pastry Chef at the Stage House restaurant and wine bar....

I'm new here, so I'll start.......... I'm an ice cream freak. Some of my favs: pumpkin peanut butter banana white chocolate butterscotch creme fraiche cinnamon apple jack Oh ......and Paul Conners' Candy Cap mushroom which I just had today