boilsover
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Posts posted by boilsover
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11 hours ago, SLB said:
I have never heard of a pyrex dish breaking, under any circumstances! I confess I'm stunned at the possibility. Also, kind of intrigued.
Hi, SLB:
Yes, it happens all the time. Most times it's traceable to no-brainer mistakes, like placing a hot dish on a cold or wet counter. But a lot of times, there's no discernible reason or timing. When it goes, it definitely deconstructs, sometimes violently. People have been seriously hurt. The reason it's a hazard is that the soda-lime glass now used can only tolerate a small temperature delta. Add in the stresses stored in the formed glass and abrasions that come with wear, and you have a very unpredictable outcome.
Here's a detailed discussion of the phenomenon. http://www.chowhound.com/post/consumer-reports-investigates-exploding-pyrex-751340
Cheers!
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1 hour ago, rancho_gordo said:
I appreciate your enthusiasm but but please stop saying breakage is "always a big issue". It's simply not true.We differ, sorry. Even moderate surface temperature deltas can and do break all clays, as do physical shocks while being under thermal stress, e.g., from dropping from even small distances. Ask any retailer of Emile Henry's stovetop line what their warranty/return rate is. Buyers should know this before they send you their money.
Clay cookware is a little like modern soda-lime "Pyrex". Some people never experience breakage, but a lot of us do, despite taking precautions.
Happy Holidays!
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5 hours ago, rancho_gordo said:
But the pot can go right on the flame.
Yes of course it can go on the flame (or into coals). The Euro lines using Burgundian clay (e.g., some Emile Henry) are similarly suitable, but breakage is always a big issue.
All this talk of canisters, daylong cooking, flame tamers, etc. brings me to the question: Other than for sweating or sauteing your mirrepoix, why wouldn't Jaymes and everyone be better off simply putting this clay pot in an oven when it's not on beautiful display on a shelf? I mean, I get why, if you have a hearth fire, or solid top also cooking other things simultaneously, stove- or trivet-top might get used, but given the nature of the material, isn't an oven a no-brainer?
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A late entrant, still eligible for an Academy Award: A Zassenhaus manual coffee mill. It totally kicks the ass of my fancy Braun conical electric.
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8 hours ago, rancho_gordo said:
I'll be blunt, you are sucking the joy right out of this!
Sorry, not my intent.
I'm sure they work. I've not cooked in a "clean boot", but I have cooked in an earthen pit oven--also used traditionally for thousands of years. They hold heat really well, too.
It's really great that you support these makers and their way of life. I hope you sell a lot of them.
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4 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:
Eh, the Mixteca pot wins on looks alone. You can probably make good beans in a clean boot. The clay gets serious style points.
Hmmm, it doesn't look tippy to you? I can see it down in some coals, but not balanced on a spider.
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1 hour ago, rancho_gordo said:
The pot will stay much hotter than a metal pot after the fire is turned off. It will keep simmering much longer than it would with a metal pot. I would think that the clay is what's different.
If what you're saying is that stoneware is a better insulator than metal, you're absolutely right.
But if you're saying a clay pot holds more heat than a metal pot, we need to be clear about the two pots being compared. A material's ability to store heat is called its specific heat; it's expressed as the amount of energy (usually a calorie, Kcal or Joule) necessary to raise a given weight (usually a gram or Kg) by a degree of temperature (usually Celsius). Water's specific heat is 1.00 cal/gram per degree C. Clay varies, but usually falls between 0.20 and 0.33. By comparison, Aluminum is 0.22, and cast iron is 0.11. So you are also correct that clay will store more heat per fixed unit of weight.
Note that we then have to adjust these numbers for density, because wall thicknesses of pots may (or may not) be similar, but the weights of such pots can be much different. Kaoline clay has a density of 961 Kg/m3. Aluminum's density is nearly three times greater at 2712, and cast iron's is 6800-7800 or 6-7x greater. You can do the math, but when you do, you discover that the heat-holding ability of a clay pot of the same size and thickness as a metal pot, isn't much different.
Then you have to account for how efficiently a material moves heat--its conductivity. And them you need to consider how easily it exchanges its stored heat with its surroundings--its thermal diffusivity adjusted for specific heat. Clay has terrible conductivity (about 1 W/mK), whereas aluminum's is 200x greater, iron's is 55x, and copper's is 400x! So if the idea is to take heat from an external source and apply it to food in the most efficient way possible, clay's not a good choice.
After the heat is shut off, clay will contain the disproportionately large volume of heat stored in your beans' water quite well. But you could do the same thing (actually better) if you put a metal pot in an old-time hay box oven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haybox
I actually like clay pots. At least in ovens.
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6 minutes ago, rancho_gordo said:
I wanted to add the clay holds the heat, so after you bring the beans to an initial boil, you just need a very low to moderate heat to maintain a simmer. The pot does the work, especially if you cook with the lid on and fill the lid with water.
Actually, it's the water that holds most of the heat, but you are correct that once the liquid reaches a boil, the flame can be lowered to a simmer.
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6 minutes ago, Anna N said:
I think you are stretching a bit.
Well, I'm talking about an alternative that would allow Jaymes to cook one pot of beans without stopping to change out a little 1/2 pound spray can.
I'm not suggesting anyone place their 350G propane tank inside their house. Certified gas lines, fittings and sealants are easily and safely assembled and tested for leaks. And a 15k butane-canister rechaud is the same as a 15k gas hob when it comes to combustion byproducts. If you, she or anyone else is uncomfortable with any of that, by all means stick with the butane rechaud and keep buying canisters by the case lot.
What frightens you so? Is it the exhaust fumes? The chances of fire?
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29 minutes ago, Anna N said:
So I couldn't sell you a propane-fired refrigerator, hot water heater, freezer, furnace or range? http://non-electric.lehmans.com/search#w=propane
Obviously, ventilation plays a role, but millions of 4-burner builder-grade gas ranges (propane and NG alike) are used every day with no venting at all, and only rarely do local jurisdictions require hoods. Would you transport a 20-lb bottle in your car? All codes allow that, too.
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2 hours ago, Jaymes said:
8oz. You talk about larger ones, but the burner I ordered is very small. Wouldn't it be tricky to try to hook up larger canisters? Those beans will take several hours to cook, simmering on low. From what I'm reading here, I probably should plan on having at the ready two of these smaller canisters per pot of beans. And probably should go ahead and order more now.
Right?
Yes, that's right. These style hotplates usually cannot mount up larger canisters--they typically have a sleeve the canister fits into, preventing use of a larger tank. Depending on what you get and how resourceful/handy you are, it would be possible to adapt them to take larger.
My advice is that, if you're actually going to be cooking beans (as opposed to reheating them), you scale up a bit. Here's an inexpensive 2-burner that will let you hook up to a larger LP tank that will run all day. http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-burner-propane-stove-35559.html
I run a 6' hose to my 20-lb bottle.
The single/8oz hotplates are basically rechauds. Like the mini "kitchen torches", they'll likely drive you batshit crazy changing canisters.
Just my 2 cents.
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16 hours ago, Jaymes said:
Do you have a ballpark estimate as to about how many I'll go through for several hours' worth of cooking on low?
Well, a rule of thumb from backpacking is that the 1/2 pound canisters will give you 1-2 hours burn time on high (15KBtu). So double that for 1-pounders, and maybe double that again for idling.
I use the 20-pounders of propane for my frame. They last a long time, but are guaranteed to run out just when you need them not to. Always have spares.
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On 12/20/2015 at 9:34 PM, Smithy said:
Now I have serious cooktop envy.
In my kitchen, a bag of coal means you've been nice.
Happy Holidays.
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6 minutes ago, Jaymes said:
Also thinking I could just set it on that glass cooktop and turn on the ventilation fan in the hood directly overhead.
Of course. I run a pimped-out double propane burner frame atop my wood cookstove when I don't want/need to fire the beast. My "ventilation fan" is my leaky windows and my Dutch door. I only run it strong (up to 100KBtu) outdoors, but there's been zero issue running lower without a hood. Check your local codes--you will likely find that residential 4- and 6-burner gas cooktops don't require hoods at all.
Your only concerns should be: (a) cracking the glass; and (b) running out of those tiny butane canisters.
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Here's mine. As you can see from my cooktop, I need one.
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3 minutes ago, Porthos said:
My younger adult daughter had been going gangbusters baking bread. Kerry and Anna mentioned Gripspan bowls so I bought my daughter one from a thrift store. She lost interest in baking before ever using it and for the moment it's a fruit bowl instead.
I only noticed recently that one of the few kitchen tools the Two Fat Ladies used in almost every episode was the same Gripstand bowl.
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A friend gifted me an Aeropress coffee "syringe"--it's a great way to make 1-2 cups/time.
I was also given a wall-mount frenchfry cutter--works great but hasn't gotten a ton of use.
I bought for myself a vintage triple-blade kraut cutter--vast improvement over my FPs and mandolines.
I added a large vintage Green's Gripstand mixing bowl--these really are fantastic.
I have a Searz-All and one of the new Thermopen contact-probe models on order.
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No no no. I meant copper plates that will go over the griddle.
I know. You were clear, I was not.
I meant there is technology coming that will obviate the need for copper sheets. It will be in griddles and pans alike. I hate to say it (because I adore my thick copper), but this technology will obsolete much of the stuff on today's market. It will be a paradigm shift.
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Sorta.
I do plan on eventually buying a long copper plate fitted to a section of my stove top. I'd either use it over two burners to act like a faux flat top or over the long griddle section that is common on a gas range stovetop (but hoping I don't end up with one of those). I've actually been in contact with someone who does this and was able to fit 5 pans on their copper plate and kept them all warm. It's a bit of an ingenious move.
Wait. There are griddles coming to market that will do better than 1/8" copper.
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Thank you for the response. I love my gas stovetop and copper pans. Induction is appealing to me more so in the way that not every house I look into buying may have gas, so I could always install an induction since it would have electricity. But I think I'd prefer gas more.
You're welcome.
The latest data released by DoE show that induction is not nearly as efficient as was originally claimed (up to 90%). Any small % saving in electricity cost becomes truly minuscule when you understand what a tiny share of total household electricity is used by cooking appliances. Gas only becomes prohibitively expensive (in USA) if you have to put in your own infrastructure extensions; even then, there is propane.
I greatly value being able to see, feel, and hear a gas flame. It makes my cooking easier and faster, and I feel more involved. I find cooking by preset digital displays on opaque sheets of cool glass somewhat soulless. But to each her/his own...
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I guess I thought that the induction cooktops interact with the pan and affect all of the metal (even going up the pan) so in my mind induction pans were completely evenly heated throughout (bottom and side). I guess only the bottom of the pans are heated by the cooktop and then the heat needs to spread to the sides of the pan. Copper makes sense then, especially to combat hot spots that I didn't really realize occured with induction tops.
There are at least three issues here.
One, the induction field essentially only heats the bottom (the field falls off as a function of the inverse of the square root). This is unlike gas (and to a lesser extent electric coil), which tends to flow heat up and around the pan. Any induction-generated heat you expect to reach beyond the floor must be conducted there by the pan itself or the food. Which leads us to...
Two, very few induction-capable pan lines contain substantial thickness of conductive material up the sidewalls. And only a few $$$ lines even contain substantially thick disk bases. Folks debate whether conductive sidewalls are necessary, but if you think they are even desirable, you are compromising by going with induction over copper or aluminum fired by gas. Manufacturers of clad do this for several reasons, chief among them being a lack of responsiveness when you swaddle a truly thick conductive core in steel. The other reasons have mostly to do with saving money by tricking consumers.
Three, there is a coil under the black Ceran induction surface. It is generally round, and produces a torus-shaped (donut-shaped) magnetic field. This coil is almost always smaller than the painted ring on the Ceran. This can, on MOST units, result in a colder central spot and periphery, i.e., a "ring of fire" effect. If you don't appreciate this, make a "scorchprint" by dusting a pan with four and turning up the heat--the shape of the small ring will clearly translate up through the pan in the form of a scorch.
Help is on the way, though. I believe sometime in 2016, a new technology will be applied to cookware manufacture which will dramatically increase conductivity of induction-compatible wares. This will largely solve evenness and responsiveness problems that bedevil existing clad designs. Stay tuned...
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While we were in Florida, Mr. Kim picked this up at Relics (a salvage place that our friends took us to):
1930’s McGraw toaster. We bought a few things, so he’s not sure, but he thinks he got it for about $40. I shined it up and it looks gorgeous. It gets hot, but I haven’t tried to make toast in it yet. The fact that it belonged to strangers is squicking me out a little bit.
My God, a work of art. My Sunbeam T-20 just died, so I want one of these.
Are you interested in selling it?
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Messermeister all the way.
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As per the hip pressure cooking website:
If you want to do 15psi, all day, every day, go All-American. http://www.allamericancooker.com/allamericanpressurecooker.htm
Cooking with clay on an electric cooktop
in Kitchen Consumer
Posted · Edited by boilsover (log)
Considering that there are tens of millions of these soda-lime bakeware pieces in use, it would be incorrect to think of the hazard as a coin toss. But it would also be incorrect to think of it as a Powerball ticket.
Owens Corning and World Kitchen were sued awhile back for personal injury, and in the course of that litigation it was discovered that over 2,000 people in the US and Canada had been injured.
The odd thing is that many cooks who've not (yet) had this happen to them will deny it happens at all, or refuse to believe it can happen without misuse. And the makers' "instructions" are more of a risk-management firewall than useful information. For instance, buried in the fine print are warnings not to use the wares under broilers or in toaster ovens. Basically, Pyrex should not be used within 5 inches of an active oven coil. Few consumers know that, before or after buying.
Yes, may we all keep our eyes and fingers this Holiday Season!