VivreManger

Good luck with all your expanding endeavors.

Thanks for all the advice. After the latest plug for the Aikens Diet, I may regret it, but I booked lunch at RHR.

Thomas Secor, thanks for the advice on Charlotte St. That is precisely the kind of information I was seeking. I assume that La Perla is Spanish. So I say, no Thai, no Spanish, yes to passionate Italy.

Looking over the posts, it seems that lunch is definitely inferior to dinner. Is that right? Are the SA afficianodos only diners not lunchers?

Does anyone have any idea whose LUNCH menus have the most options and appeal? Now that I know it is not too late to reserve, I am considering RHR, Petrus, Aikens, & Sketch for a lunch next month.

How long will the launch menu last? I will be getting to London in about a month. Do you think the menu will last until the 17th or 18th of October?

Actually I was thinking I would graze on starters and punt the mains which seem rather dull by comparison. But I love sweetbreads. I just posted an eating itinerary in which I was asking about dining suggestions for lunch, Sketch versus RHR. As a result of this thread and other thinking, I should add Petrus and Aikens to the list. Any feedback?

My plans for a mid-October visit to London: Sunday lunch, if I can manage the jet-lag, Putney Bridge. Dinner St John B&W Monday lunch, catch as catch can in Bloomsbury, depending on work schedule. Dinner at Angel Mangal. Tuesday lunch, catch as catch can in Bloomsbury, depending on work schedule. Dinner at New Tayyab. Wednesday lunch, catch as catch can in Bloomsbury, depending on work schedule. Dinner on Charlotte St., to be determined by host. DINNER RECOMMENDATIONS HERE WELCOMED, though I have less input. Thursday lunch, open, but can't be too expensive, since for convenience sake I am treating my hosts to dinner at Pied a Terre. I will probably be shopping in the West End so that Galette shop off Marylebone High Street sounds appealing. Or perhaps the Malay place, C&R, near Leicester Square. Friday lunch: This can be a blow-out of my per diem, since I am being fed dinner free by friends. At the moment I am debating between RHR and Sketch. I will probably be shopping in Chelsea, Knightsbridge, South Ken. etc. LUNCH RECOMMENDATIONS HERE WELCOMED. Saturday lunch, lunch open, but probably someplace close to Borough Market. LUNCH RECOMMENDATIONS HERE WELCOMED.

A pity that you did not make it Sunday night since I am curious as to how St. John's B&W fares at the fag end of the week.

That should mean it is not far from the Laurier Metro stop? It would not take much to beat Patisserie Belge, a truly mediocre establishment, that should not be put in the same city as La Gacogne, but I wonder how Fous Desserts compares to Duc du Lorraine?

I believe Toque gets its bread from Le Fromentier. I did find Hamel very helpful and willing to offer tastes, even on a busy Friday AM. I assume that somebody there can speak enough English to help a monophone. But remember the words: lait cru, RAW MILK, pronounced lay crew, more or less. It would be good if you pronounce the L at the top and front of the mouth, rather than the back and start spitting up ever so slightly as you pronounce the R.

Having shopped at both Hamel and Le marché des saveurs, I recommend both enthusiastically, but Hamel would be much better for cheese. In July Hamel offered the following, but i can't tell you what might be available now: Riopelle, raw cow milk, 37% m.g., humidity 50%. Tastes like a very good St. Andre -- excellent cheese. I though it is less rich than St. Andre. I also got their Caprice des saisons, raw milk brie, slightly amoniac, runny but still very tasty, though I am not sure that was from Quebec. Ciel de charlevoix, semi soft ripened blue cheese, raw cow milk, m.g. 27%, hum 47% moisture I like the Valbert I got there, but I can't find my notes to tell you more about it. Coordinates: La Fromagerie Hamel, headquarters, 220 rue Jean-Talon Est, H2R 1S7, 514-272-1161, fax 514-272-1163, www.fromageriehamel.com They have other branches in the east of the city, but it does not seem that you will be getting there. The bakery Le Fromentier sold me an excellent raw milk sheep cheese Allegretto, from Abitibi. Their breads are worth getting too. Le Fromentier at 1375 Laurier St. E, 514-527-3327 The following is a list of their breads: Panne de pesto, le sociètal, le petit crottin, l'Amèricucurbitacé, la manomin des Ashinobegs, foglia fourré, noisettes et abricot, trio de terroir, le prophètique, le pain de Jeanne, el fortissimo, paõ de Trigo et de Milho, le compostelle, la galette d'Hippocrate. Farines biologiques raisins, cannelle, girofle, muscade blé entier enrobé de sèsame, tournesol ou farine farines de blé et seigle, riz sauvage, tamari. Coriandre farines de seigle et de blé, ail, carvi et fromage fort, noix de grenoble. Jus de pomme. Pavot pourdes de cacao. Chocalot noir farine de blé tamisé, olives et gruyére, thym oregano I won't translate, but they specialize in whole and unusual grains, such as sunflower, wild rice, using organic flours and other unusual ingredients. Customers amble in and out clutching loaves of all shapes, sizes, colors and textures, an impressive array of gluten, yeast and flour. The store lacks a street front and can be easily missed since entrance is through a side alley with only a sign, no shop-window to mark the way. As I was driving down the street, I had been tracking the numbers, but it was the serious contented faces of bread-lovers and the loaves they carried that marked the spot. The store occupies a large open basement space, airy and cool. Separate counters offer breads, charcuterie, and cheese. Pastries may have been on offer as well, but I did not notice. I looked over and smelled the breads -- a Provencal bread with cheese, olives, oregano, and other spices caught my eye first. The large dark rye, almost Poilane-like in its size, but not quite captured me as did the sesame covered whole wheat. The descriptions and options were mind-boggling, -- sesame sunflower- seed, accompanied as they were with the airy poetry that is so charming and alluring in French, but so vapid and pretentious when translated into English -- the bread bags say it all. Le marché des saveurs has an excellent selection of easily imported products, unusual preserves, Inuit teas, tinned foie gras, and ice cider, a unique Quebec product. DEfinitely worth a visit. In my experience US customs don't even treat cider as alcohol, though it packs as much as wine. Pinnacle is good, but all of them are woth trying. The best taste like an appley sauterne and they go will with foie gras. The SAQ on Parc St. past Laurier also has an excellent selection of ice ciders and the staff there were much more helpful than that at Jean-Talon. As for cryovacing cheese -- my experience has been largely successful. Even when Lufthansa lost my bag for a few days with several raw milk lovelies, including a whole brin d'amour. I was afraid what might happen in the July heat, but all remained tasty and healthy. I store them out of the fridge in a lovely ceramic cheese holder I bought in Toledo more ten years ago. It is great for Manchego.

There seem to be two different onion ring options: thick or thin batter. I would imagine the ones with egg, yeast, or self-rising flour would be almost as thick as hamburgers, while the ones that are quick dip, drudge, and drop, would be very delicate, my preference. In reviewing the recipes one possibility remains largely unexplored: alternatives to regular wheat flour. Cornmeal, buckwheat flour, rice flour are appealing. I have come up with the following recipe which I throw out to all of you as an experiment. I don't think that the onions that I now have are good enough to try: Kasha fried onion rings. I love the taste of sauted, carmelized onions, with buckwheat groats served with a rich brisket gravy. First pan roast in a dry heavy iron skillet on top of the stove whole buckwheat groats till they are brown, but not burnt. Then in a cuisinart or similar contraption grind the groats till they are a combination of mostly fine, but some still larger bits. The aroma of the hot ground groats alone is almost worth the effort. While I have never made this dish, the steps up to this point are what I do to make buckwheat pancake flour. Slice the onions to your desired thickness. I prefer thin delicate. Prepare a dipping liquid of warm low-fat or fat- free beef broth. Here the options are limitless. Most commercial beef stocks and broths are quite salty so you may not need to add as much slat at the end. To taste, you might add other flavors. Cayenne pepper or hot pepper sauce might work well. Soy sauce would be a different flavor, making this closer to soba noodles than to kasha varnishkes. Dip in the liquid, dredge in the flour, and drop in the oil. Then quickly fry in your favorite cooking oil. I prefer a Honk Kong peanut oil, called Lion Brand or something like it. It really tastes like fresh roasted peanuts. If you want to go whole hog, you could use schmaltz. The advantage of thin-sliced onions cooked in small batches is that you can improvise the frying utensils. Any decent heavy-gauge pot, with a spider skimmer should do the job. Let me know if anyone tries this idea. Corn meal and rice flour would also be fun.

Macrosan, thanks for weighing in. If I remember correctly, you have been a fan of Pied a Terre. Are you still? How does it rate on the noise question? Is my understanding of London restaurant practice correct, that a tasting menu must be ordered by the entire table? As my schedule is getting filled in, I realize that an appointment will keep me very close to Charlotte St. until about 7:00 PM and my hosts and I are based in Tufnell Park so Pied a Terre does make sense. By the way does RHR do week day lunch? And are any of the best restaurants offering a table d'hote or similar discounts ar lunch time?

Pied a terre does have the advantage, along with the other Charlotte St. recommendations, of being a good deal closer than the Chelsea/Mayfair options to where I will be staying, near Tufnell Park. I have hesitated to pursue it since it has been getting such mixed reviews over the past months. By the way in London restaurants does the tasting menu have to be ordered for the whole table or can each guest choose a different menu option? Or does this vary by restaurant? Can you tell me anything more about Passione? I presume it is Italian. Even if I don't do dinner there, it is convenient enough for lunch to be practical.

Oh well. It was too good a coincidence to be true. My version at least combined them both,

I have not been, but based on the reports here and elsewhere, Putney Bridge has a lovely view of the River and pretty good food and wine. Not vertiginous heights, to be sure, but a relaxing flow of water.

Everyone seems to be on the Aitkens diet right now. Just do a search and you should come up with the reports on Tom Aitkens. If you just do the last name you might wind up with too much discussion of carbs, but if you confine the search to the UK forum, that should not overwhelm you. I don't remember a full scale review, but there has been a fair discussion in the past few months. Andy Lynes should be able to help you, if you have trouble. By the way some time ago Simon Majumdar told me that Capital had the best ris de veau in London. Can anybody comfirm that judgment or offer any thoughts on any other memorable dishes there?

I will be treating my hosts to a meal, probably on a Thursday night in mid-October, during a visit to London. For the past months I have been following reviews on GR RHR, Atkins new place, The Square, Capital, and Boxwood Cafe among others. Since it will be a chance to catch up and chat away from the din of hectic home life, ideally I would like someplace that will not be too yuppy, hardsurfaced, echoey. bouncing off the walls, noisy. Of the various places mentioned -- and any others that should be added to this list -- which is likely to avoid that fault and meet a need for some peace and quiet, along with truly exceptional and exciting food? I cannot afford to blow my expense account completely so price is one consideration in the mix. Putney Bridge is appealing, but it would be too remote for a Thursday evening and the river view might not be as appealing at night. How difficult is getting reservations at any of these places?

It was the Trout. Never ate there, perhaps had a drink, but the reputation was what I remembered.

It is similar to corned beef, but I can't tell the fine distinctions between the two.

I am curious. Are the salt beef counter shops still open, just off Piccadilly near the Windmill "Theatre". There used to be two or three and they introduced me to the delights of salt beef, all presided over by stooped grey-haired Eastern European Jews who you might otherwise find acting as beadles in a synagogue.

I agree that the Turf is good for booze. If one wants the classic English pub lunch, e.g. irridescent peas, soggy pies in plastic wrap, and lots of mustard -- that is the saving graze -- they do that as well. I have not been to Brown's in almost 25 years. When it was first opened, it was quite good for Oxford. Sad to learn it has declined. I have fond memories of Elizabeth's from the late 60s. The other recollection I have is of some quite good places in the country about 20 to 30 minutes from Town Centre. That would require a car. I also enjoyed shopping for cheddar, bread, cider, and crisps in the town market and heading off to the riverside for lunch. This was in the days before Neals Yard helped raise the standards for British cheese, but you usually could find a good aged veiney cheddar for sale along with fresh tomatoes and a decent crusty hardy bread.

Is that 32 kilos per bag, i.e. total max for two bags is 64, or 32 kilos total?

I posted this awhile ago, but for paulbrussel's convenience here it is again: reservations@stjohnrestaurant.com St. John Restaurant, 26 St John Street, London, EC1M 4AY Reservations 020 7251 0848 Fax 020 7251 4090 Office 020 72514080 St. John Bread and Wine, 94 - 96 Commercial Street, E1 6LZ, telephone 020 7247 8724, fax 020 7247 8924, http://www.stjohnrestaurant.co.uk It's where the East End and the City shade into each other at the conjunction of Bishopsgate, Shoreditch and Commercial Street. St John B&W is on Commercial St, opposite the market. St. John in Smithfield is open for lunch from Monday to Friday from midday until 3.00 pm and then for supper Monday to Saturday from 6.00 pm until 11.00 pm. Bar here is open Monday to Friday 11.00 am until 11.00 pm and from 6.00 pm until 11.00 pm on Saturdays. We are closed Saturday lunchtime and all day Sunday. Bread and Wine is open 7 days a week for lunch and dinner - for exact opening times in the morning you should call them on 020 7241 8724. the menu changes as the day goes on but indeed you can eat a three course meal there. We will have the Bread and Wine website updated and fully running within the next few weeks.