pbear
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Posts posted by pbear
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Given the amount of press the issue has received, for the line butchers not to know whether their product includes pink slime is beyond lame. I'd find another source - one that can answer the question without hesitation - or, as discussed upthread, grind your own.
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I believe Dcarch is correct. It would also explain the prominent use by date. interesting article about carbon monoxide in map packaging here.
https://www.uoguelph.ca/foodsafetynetwork/carbon-monoxide-and-meat
Yeah, but thats why I feel that type of meat is Pink Slime. Fresh ground meat from a store lasts 3 days max in the fridge. The heat sealed MAP packaged meat has a 3 week expiration date, which leads me to believe it is chock full of chemicals. And the texture is just odd. I mean even the freeze dried burgers from Nutrisystem have more texture.
Im sorry if im making a lot out of this but its creeping me out
Ordinary store-ground meat has a short safe storage window because it's not MAPed. What MAP adds is a barrier to proliferation of bacteria. The meat might include pink slime, or not, but extended shelf life for a MAP product tells you nothing either way. Consider this. You have doubtless noticed that vacuum-packed meats (i.e., muscle cuts, not ground) generally have much longer expiration dates than plain shrink-wrapped ones. The reason this works is that the lack of air inhibits almost all bacteria, except botulism, which is controlled by temperature. (FWIW, to my knowledge and I've read the CDC reports, MAP meat has never been implicated in a single case of botulism in the US.) MAP does the same thing, only instead of a vacuum it uses displacement of oxygen. Obviously, food is a very personal thing and if you're not comfortable with MAP, that's a valid reason to avoid it. Going the further step, though, of assuming extended shelf life = pink slime isn't warranted. Odd texture when cooked is whole 'nuther kettle of fish (so to speak), and I'll agree that suggests pink slime. But you can run into the same issue with shrink-wrapped or frozen. What I'm saying, I guess, is that extended shelf life is the wrong thing on which to focus. Rather, you should focus on what's going into the package.
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Gotcha. Good luck.
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Did you include curing salts? They're not mentioned in the two recipes linked in the OP, but are traditional. If so, that would explain the color. If not, I'm baffled, as I would have expected ten hours as 75C/167F to be enough to color-degrade the myyoglobin (the protein which makes meat pink), though I will say I can't recall having ever having cooked anything at precisely that temp. In any event, taking the temp up to 82C/180F should solve the problem. That's a temp I've used lots of times when aiming for braised texture by SV. No pink, in my experience.
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Bear in mind that the MC recipe as written assumes all water from the carrots stays in the vessel. In other words, steam doesn't prevent caramelization. If it did, the recipe would never work. Rather, it's based on high temp in a slightly alkaline environment (from the baking soda). The purpose of adding water for a venting cooker is to end up with the same amount of liquid as would be the case with a nonventing one. And while I can't recall the amount used, that's how I calculated it, i.e., by measuring over a series of runs how much water was expressed as steam for various cooking times. Like you, I'm used to operating a venting pressure cooker at the minimum heat necessary to maintain pressure, so this wasn't a hard calculation to nail. Rather, I ended up going a different direction with this recipe for other reasons.
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BTW, to put a little meat on the bones, so to speak, here are a couple of references on the subject. First is the most recent comprehensive report on botulism in the United States. This report is the basis of my recollection that the garlic-botulism scare was founded on just two cases (both of which were by inference, by the way, as no product remained to be tested for contamination). Notably, it covers the years 1990 to 2000 and no similar report was prepared for the succeeding decade AFAICT. But, the CDC has prepared annual reports on botulism for each year since. I just went through these and found no incidents implicating garlic. In other words, there really were just two cases.
Which isn't to suggest botulism doesn't exist and can be ignored. The spores are ubiquitous and will bite if you don't take appropriate precautions, e.g., refrigeration, acidity, proper canning and/or low available water. But garlic of itself isn't a special hazard.
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Agreed. As I recall, the garlic-botulism scare was based on a handful of cases, i.e., two, which happened more than ten years ago.
Edited to correct grammar.
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Hey hattermad. I've done the carrot soup in a venting pressure cooker (a Presto). I found I had to add water to avoid scorching. As I recall, a few folks on the MC forum reported the same thing. Don't recall how much I added, as this was a year ago and I've since decided the soup is better and more easily made by simply roasting carrots, then adding back the water lost to evaporation (using a scale to determine exactly how much to add back). My suspicion would be that you only didn't have this problem because butternut squash has more water than carrots. Can't comment on the browning, as I've not tried the recipe with other veggies.
Another way to do carrots per the MC recipe, by the way, might be to use the canning jar bain marie method (cf. onion confit). This way, evaporation from the pressure cooker ceases to be a concern, as the carrots are contained in their own little non-venting vessels. (Well, slightly vented, but not enough I'm pretty sure to affect the recipe.) I intend to try this some day, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
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Fair point. I'll probably try both.
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Taking pan-searing first, that's never worked well for me with SV, though it works fine with conventionally cooked meat (e.g., carnitas). The reason for the difference, I think, is that SV meat is firmer (one of the reasons we're doing it), so it doesn't get good surface contact, whereas conventionally cooked meat is softer and settles down into the pan. One of these days, I'm going to try shallow-frying, but expect the splattering will be more than I care to put up with.
As for a blowtorch, I assume you mean propane. That's a very hot flame. Map Pro (propylene) is even hotter. If my hunch is correct, you might want to try an Iwatani torch, which uses butane and is less hot than both, but still hot enough to be tricky to get right. My way of reducing scorching is to move the torch around a lot and use three passes, one to dry, a second for what I call a base tan and a third to brown. Even with this, I often get some scorching, producing what some call "torch taste" and tend not to use it these days. But, when I did, I didn't have a problem with the meat getting leathery. That you are suggests to me you're taking it to mahogany brown, which is tempting (since you can), but too much IMHO. You might want to try the three-pass method and see whether it works for you. I've used it successfully with Map Pro (though the torch taste problem was worse), so you could try this with your propane torch (assuming that's what you have) before deciding whether to invest in an Iwatani.
Or you can try a few other strategies. The one I prefer is a hot convection oven, 450ºF for ten minutes, flipping halfway through. This gives good color (though not mahogany brown), great flavor and doesn't overcook the interior. Another good option would be a hot infrared broiler, though a conventional one doesn't get hot enough (as it's slower, the interior will take too much heat). A third technique I've read about, but not tried as I don't have one, is a propane gas grill. Unlike a torch, the heat is more widely distributed. Reportedly, this works very well. Alternatively, you could use a charcoal grill, which I have tried and like, but that's a lot of work just to brown a batch of SV meat. Finally, for meat that's going to be reheated, an electric heat gun works very nicely and doesn't have the torch taste problem. I find it only works, though, if I dunk the SV pouch in cold water to bring the temp way down (doesn't have to be stone cold). Otherwise, because it's less hot than a torch, it takes much longer and overheats meat intended to serve right away.
BTW, for both the heat gun and torches, I like to put the pan in which I do the searing on a cooling rack (I use an inverted grill skillet) so at least some of the surface heat dissipates away. Not sure that's necessary, but it might be part of the reason I don't encounter the leathery surface problem.
Hope that helps. Feel free to comment and/or ask questions.
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How about reheating leftovers, like meat or vegetable stews or soups? Again, I often use the stovetop and Toots is the Microwave Queen. Is anything gained or lost using one method or the other?
Addressing only this point, which is my main use of the microwave (aside from steaming some veggies), the advantage is that the heat is more gentle (assuming, as DDF mentions, that one knows how to use the power settings) and comes from all sides, whereas a stove can heat only from the bottom. That said, for some things, especially large quantities and meats with few liquids, the best answer actually is an oven, dish covered or not depending on what's being reheated.
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From everything i have read or watched on tv, says to pat dry and dust in flour. Then to dip into a eggwash, butter milk, or batter. Then dredge into seasoned flour, or bread crumb. Then allow to set in fridge for 15-20 minutes. Then fry, or bake.
Ive not read anything that implies a coating being dry would cause it to fall off.
Not saying there are no such recipes, but I'm pretty sure they're the exception. My mother never did the resting step, nor do I. Our breading never falls off. A quick google search turns up recipes by Alton Brown, Paula Deen, Serious Eats, All Recipes and Martha Stewart, none of which include a rest. As nickrey suggests, why not give not-resting a try? Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Yes and no. Searing after cooking, whether by SV or conventionally, is a bit different from searing before. Carnitas is a good example, to take one from conventional cooking. My SWAG is that this is because the meat has lost some moisture, so it browns more easily and more thoroughly. Whereas meat seared before cooking softens and gives much of its flavor to the braising liquid. But there's no reason searing after should be leathery, unless you're overdoing it. What method are you using?
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thanks again for your comments. Like the comments with a potential chili disorder. Im stilled not convinced about the taste/flavour of chili it was however just a side remark.
Have a great day to all
)To put this in perspective, my recipe for chili con carne uses 8 tbsp (40 g) pulverized spicy new mexico chiles for two pounds meat, whereas my pork vindaloo for the same weight uses 1 tbsp cayenne. The latter is easily ten times spicier than the former, but the former is easily ten times more flavorful (if one considers only the flavors of the chiles).
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FWIW, I have a NuWave, mainly because I don't have enough amperage to support an 1800 watt unit. Works pretty well. As quiet1 says, though, the "temp" settings aren't accurate as such (and, yes, I've done lots of testing). OTOH, they work as power settings and the wide range of fine gradations make this cooker much more useful IMHO than the (better built) Fagor, which has only six power levels. In particular, to answer your question, it does nicely holding sub-boil temps.
Be aware, if you've not used induction before, that it can be a bit annoying. Well suited to things where you leave the pan alone, e.g., simmers and braises, but not when you want to move the pan around, especially sautes.
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I've never used a ziploc for more than a few hours.
This raises a question I've had for a while now. From time to time, I see comments like this, wonder how many sous viders have had this issue and whether it matters what sort of sous vide rig they're using. Cuz, in more than four years doing this, I've never had ziplocs fail for long cooks (24 hours or more), but maybe it's relevant that I use noncircularing rigs (i.e,, a Sous Vide Supreme and an Auber-controlled 6 qt slow cooker). If so, this seems to be a good argument for noncirculators, to wit, that they work with ziplocs but circulators need better seals (either fiddly FoodSavers or expensive chamber vacuum sealers).
Any thoughts from the eG sous vide community would be appreciated. FWIW, I recently got a chamber vacuum sealer (the low end but still not-cheap VP112), so this isn't about me. It's about what sous vide rigs to recommend to friends.
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Hey Bojana, my $0.02's worth.
First, as this is your first brisket, I'd recommend a standard braise. It's simple, effective and will give you a base line against which to compare your SV efforts. Personally, I prefer a covered pot to foil, as it's easier to monitor the meat (especially, to make sure it's not boiling; if it is, reduce the oven temp). With a standard braise you don't have to worry about browning, as that will happen as a matter of course. Indeed, this is another reason I prefer a covered pot, as it enables me to flip the meat a few times while cooking, to brown both sides (interestingly, it's the top which browns, not the bottom).
Second, when you get around to doing SV, expect to make a few runs at different times and temps until you discover which suits your preference. I tried the 72 hour brisket first, but found I prefer 36 hours at 150ºF. YMMV. The only way to ascertain which you prefer is to experiment. And you may find that each approach (including the standard braise) has its advantages and which you use depends on the effect you want for a particular meal. This is true of most meats, not just brisket.
Third, I've done lots of comparisons and feel that saucing after cooking SV works best (be sure to cook the sauce separately if you designed it as a simmer sauce). But others prefer the other way 'round and so may you. More experiments. Likewise on whether to salt. I do, lightly (1/4 tsp finely-ground per pound), but as rotuts mentions some feel this gives the meat a cured flavor. On the bright side, as you develop experience with these things, the lines begin to converge. For example, whether you prefer to sauce before or after SV probably will be consistent across all meats. Ditto with salt.
Fourth, how to brown after SV seems to me the subject on which folks disagree the most. Personally, I have a nice little countertop convection oven which does a great job at high heat for a short time (450ºF for ten minutes, flipping once halfway through). A really hot infrared broiler also would work. I tried torches, but find they're a bit fiddly (easy to scorch the meat). Some report good results searing in a skillet, but that's never worked for me with cooked meat (poor surface contact). Again, you'll figure out what works for you with practice.
Fifth, as suggested often in other SV threads, be sure to take notes on your efforts. It'll help you keep track of where you've been and what you want to try next. You can try to keep this in your head, and if you're able to do that all power to you. But most of us found notes to be very helpful.
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By the way i politely disagree that chili has taste. I think it is pretty taste less, unlike peber, it however adds strengths.
I'd say this is true of dried cayenne and some paprikas (the inferior ones). But there are a lot of chiles with distinctive flavors, IMHO. What are you using? Frankly, I have no idea what varieties are available in the UK. I live in San Francisco, where there are plenty of options, both fresh and dried. It's no exaggeration to say that I generally have on hand about two dozen varieties of dried chiles and can get as needed another dozen fresh ones. And there are many more, both fresh and dried, which are sometimes but not always available. This may be the reason for our difference of opinion.
I agree there's a cook out effect for chiles, which is why I use the augmented Sriracha mentioned above to adjust spiciness at the end. Because it's a sauce, the heat is "ready to go" and doesn't need to be cooked out.
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Michael, it would be easier to help if you gave us a few examples of what dishes you're making. And what chiles you're using, i.e., what varieties, fresh vs. dried, whole vs. pulverized, etc.
Broadly speaking, chiles bring both flavor and heat to a dish. The former usually is pretty consistent, the latter (as others have mentioned) less so. Generally I develop recipes with an eye to flavor, then adjust heat at the end. My favorite tool for adjusting heat is an augmented Sriracha which I always have on hand. This is the familiar bottle with a rooster label - a consistent product with a clean, unobtrusive flavor - to which I add a little Dave's Insanity sauce (1 tbsp for half-litre bottle) to bring up the heat without adding flavor. It's then a simple matter to add a bit of this, 1/2 tsp at a time, until the dish hits the desired heat level.
There are other ways to do this, but that's the one I use the most. I (and others) might have other suggestions depending on what dishes we're talking about.
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The food processor is most definitely not your friend with squashes or potatoes. It just pulverizes the meat and causes watery vegetables to weep and starchy roots to turn to glue.
A not-insignificant quibble. I agree this is true of the knife blade, which is what it appears the OP used. OTOH, if the OP doesn't have a food mill, the grating disk of a food processor does very well with squashes and potatoes.
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A room-temp tortilla espanol.
This is what I was going to suggest. Very simple, yet always well received.
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The usual reason I hear for adding oil to the water is to prevent the pasta from sticking together. There are other and better solutions to that problem, e.g., stirring often during the first few minutes of cooking, which makes the oil unnecessary.
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The purists (qv extensive discussion in past threads) will tell you that unless you start with cultured butter (effectively butter from full-fat yoghurt), you're not making ghee.
Always interested in learning new things. Per your suggestion, I searched for the prior threads. I assume you have in mind these two: Ghee (Clarified Butter) and Store bought ghee (which ended up including a lot of discussion on making from scratch). Both included many very informative posts by v. gautam, mentioned by patrickamory, I have (I think) a pretty good "knows what he's talking about" meter and VG hits a 10. Accordingly, I withdraw my intuition-based assumption that there's no point in using cultured butter for ghee. I will mention, though, that VG considered this only a distant third to the traditional method, which uses yogurt. He ranked in the middle, and much closer to the ideal, a somewhat fiddly process of separating the butterfat from commercial Munster cheese.
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To confirm, yes, the procedure described in the OP will produce monosodium citrate, whereas the product called for in Modernist Cuisine is trisodium citrate. The former works well enough, but the latter works better.
"Modernist Cuisine at Home" by Myhrvold and Bilet
in Cookbooks & References
Posted
For those trying to register, look inside the back cover. AFAIK, scanning that QR code is the only way to do it. FYI, here's a prior thread on the subject. Discussion of registering @Home starts at Post #25.