pbear
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Posts posted by pbear
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rotuts, don't know whether my experience is typical, but I've had rather poor success desalting country-style hams by soaking whole in cold water. No matter how much water I use or how many changes, the hams remain unrepentant salt bombs. Cooking one sous vide has never occurred to me, but what I'd do is this. Cut across the grain into thick slabs (you'll need a hacksaw to get through the bone). Pack in bags with an equal amount by weight of water. Cook 24 hours at 140F or so, as you suggest. This will both cook the ham and, I think, gently draw out about half the salt.
To be clear, that's not tried-and-true. Just thinking aloud. But it's what I'd try.
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FWIW, Paul, I agree and disagree with Shalmanese about dry aging in a home fridge. That is, I've done it successfully, but you have to be careful not to dry out the meat too much. In which regard, a week would be too long IMHO. For steaks, I've gotten best results with two days, where roasts can take three or four (depending on thickness). I flip every 12 hours, as the upper surface dries faster than the lower one (even with a rack, which I assume you intend to use). Then I wrap with plastic film and chill another 24 hours to equalize the evaporation. Works for me. If you have your own tried-and-true protocol, feel free to ignore all that. Looking forward to your report on the dry ice freezing experiment.
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Put the dry ice in alcohol. That will get the temp down fast.
I had a similar thought on reading the OP, except I'd use a fully-saturated saline solution. Cheaper and less volatile. Use the dry ice to chill. (One could use regular ice, of course, as with an ice cream freezer, but dry ice would be more cool, so to speak, and would avoid any issue of dillution.) Vacuum pack the meat, then freeze in the bath. This will be faster than freezing conventionally, or even in a box with dry ice, as water is much more conductive than air. Whether any of that will make a significant difference in the final product is more than I know, as I've not tried it. But, if I did, this is how I'd go about it.
A fully saturated salt solution freezes at -21C. Dry ice sublimates at -78C and ethanol freezes at -114C. You can get denatured alcohol fairly cheaply at a hardware store, it's going to work better than saline.
I realize alcohol will get much colder, but has its own issues, like effects on the plastic bags. In any event, I think immersion in a sub-freezing liquid (even saline) will be more effective than circulating dry ice chilled air. As the latter is the method the OP has decided to try, I'll be interested to hear about his results. As, I'm sure, are all of us.
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Ozcook: With respect, I think you're missing the point of the study linked by ChrisZ. (Which, I will say, was news to me.) The standard assumption, and the one underlying your OP, is that brief cooking at high temp kills substantially all bacteria. See, e.g.,, the American FSIS tables for cooking beef and poultry. The linked study suggests this assumption is overly optimistic. Now, it may be that the real lesson to be learned here is that the effectiveness of brief-high-temp depends on the bacterial load (most failures in the study came early in the slaughter process), but knives vs. meat isn't the issue. BTW, I notice you skipped over the parasites problem.
FeChef: If bacteria can migrate into the interior of sous vide fish, the whole premise of the OP and my own practices with respect to previously frozen are suspect. (Surely you don't assume the bacteria can only migrate at moderate temps) Do you have a cite?
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Put the dry ice in alcohol. That will get the temp down fast.
I had a similar thought on reading the OP, except I'd use a fully-saturated saline solution. Cheaper and less volatile. Use the dry ice to chill. (One could use regular ice, of course, as with an ice cream freezer, but dry ice would be more cool, so to speak, and would avoid any issue of dillution.) Vacuum pack the meat, then freeze in the bath. This will be faster than freezing conventionally, or even in a box with dry ice, as water is much more conductive than air. Whether any of that will make a significant difference in the final product is more than I know, as I've not tried it. But, if I did, this is how I'd go about it.
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Ozcook, you don't mention parasites. Hard freezing will solve that problem, see § 3‑402.11 of the FDA Food Code, but AFAIK heat is the only control for parasites that works with fresh fish (except tuna, which apparently doesn't get them). See Baldwin. Indeed, as I too don't care for the texture of sous vide pasteurized fish, I use sous vide only for previously hard-frozen (or tuna) and cook to very low temp (below pasteurization). Fresh I cook by conventional methods.
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FWIW, I also have a Nesco, it works fine and isn't difficult to clean IMHO. Bear in mind the temps used are pretty low compared to an oven. It's not like stuff is getting baked on. I spray with warm water, let sit a few minutes, then hit with dish soap and an ordinary kitchen brush.
I will say it may matter how happy I am with the Nesco that I don't use it all that often, maybe once a month. (Main uses for me are jerky, spiced nuts and glace fruit.) If I were using it every week, or even intense projects once a year (e.g., putting up an apple harvest), I'd probably get a more robust unit. For what I do, though, the Nesco is more than adequate.
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I'm sure the grinding method produces the highest yield, but it's not necessary to render most of the fat. I'd say one can get about 90% of it by simply dicing the skin and cooking in a small pot on the stove. That's based on preparing duck skin cracklings long before I'd heard of sous vide. Admittedly cracklings are a bit fiddly, but if one is only after the fat a covered pot will work fine and is much easier. Whereas sous vide for the skin from a duck or two seems like overkill to me. (Keller presumably is generally working with much larger quantities.) For that matter, with legs, sous vide cooking itself renders about 80% of the fat with no special treatment of the skin as such. It's mostly the breast we're talking about here.
Note that grind vs. dice and stovetop vs. sous vide are separate issues. One could do either of A with either of B.
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No experience with Vollraths, but plenty with that shape. It's a joy to use and I have one in just about every size available. Go for it.
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Umm, it's a kickstarter project, not an order on Amazon. I signed up, but won't be shocked if it fizzles. That's how kickstarter works.
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FYI, Scanpan is not PTFE free. Some ceramics are PTFE-free, but they're not truly nonstick. Have tried several of those and the only one I'm prepared to recommend is the Cuisinart line. In particular, I have the everyday pan and it's the only ceramic pan I've tried where the surface held up to extended use (going on something like four years now).
thanks so much ; but on what you base your info ? i guess you haven't lab tested them "
and ' on the Cuisinart 'its not at all non stick ,that you talk about 'correct ?
I've done a lot of research on pans in general and nonstick in particular. A seriously disingenuous piece of marketing which has become common is for pans to tout that they're PFOA free, implying they're also teflon-PTFE free. Wiki explains the difference. See also How Stuff Works. At this point, if a nonstick pan claims the former without claiming the latter, I assume it's a PTFE pan. As for Scanpan, look at this FAQ for one of their main online distributors. From its similarity to this one from another distributor, I infer Scanpan is the source of the text. In any event, it's clear from both that Scanpan is a PTFE surface.
As regards the Cuisinart line I linked, you understand correctly, no, it's not truly nonstick. No non-PTFE surface is. The non-PTFE ceramic surfaces (including Cuisinart's) can best be described as low stick. Less sticky (and easier to clean) than stainless steel, but more sticky than PTFE. In my experience, good for eggs and pretty good for veggies, but not so good for meat. For the latter, I will brown some other way, e.g., in cast iron, then transfer to stainless steel to braise (if it's that sort of recipe) or cook by sous vide. Or, more likely these days, I'll cook by sous vide and brown at the end wth a countertop convection oven. Indeed, it's for the latter that I most use the Cuisinart everyday pan, as low stick is adequate for that application. And, with attentive cleaning with Barkeeper's Friend, it has held up better than any PTFE or other non-PTFE ceramic pan I've tried.
Bottom line, there's no perfect cooking surface. If there were, we'd all be using it by now. Ultimately, it comes down to how you cook,, what recipes you use and what other factors you consider. For me, the issue with PTFE isn't safety - I'm persuaded that's not a problem if used correctly - but rather that it doesn't hold up very well. Cast iron is nearly nonstick (if well seasoned), but heavy and not good for braises. And so on. If you want a single set that's non-PTFE and relatively easy to use, the Cuisinart line is the best choice of which I'm aware. But the better answer is an assortment of pans with different surfaces (I even have a few PTFE pieces), which will give you the flexibility to handle a wide range of tasks. That's what I do and, I think, a lot other folks here.
Just my $0.02's worth. YMMV.
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FYI, Scanpan is not PTFE free. Some ceramics are PTFE-free, but they're not truly nonstick. Have tried several of those and the only one I'm prepared to recommend is the Cuisinart line. In particular, I have the everyday pan and it's the only ceramic pan I've tried where the surface held up to extended use (going on something like four years now).
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Thanks for the replies. I will let you know how I get on. Will probably start off with a simple paneer and then work my way up
It's been many years since I tried making rennet cheese - and I ended up deciding it was more work than it was worth - but it's important to understand that panir isn't anything like rennet cheese. They're as different as apples and oranges. Both are good for their intended uses, but not interchangable. Nor is panir a stepping stone to rennet-based cheese. They're completely different things.
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Pumpkin soup, especially if flavored with sage, thyme and cream, maybe with a floating crouton topped with some parmesan.
And of course muffins and quick breads. Pumpkin waffles, with maple syrup and pecans.
There's a Richard Olney recipe for hand made ravioli thingies rolled out with a rolling pin and cut by hand, filled with sage and pumpkin. Can't find it...and when I made it, it didn't come out very well! So you may not want it, anyway.
The first two suggestions were what came to mind when reading the OP. 15 oz of pumpkin puree would be a pretty small soup, though, so I'd probably go with muffins or quck bread. 15 oz would be about right for a recipe based on 2 c flour, etc.
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TdeV: I think you're misreading Baldwin. Table 2.3 of his Practical Guide gives heating times from frozen and, while some are under an hour, most are more (how much more depending on shape and thickness). I don't have any experience with the question you're asking, as I never cook from frozen, but this table would give me pause. I'd fear the outside would be overcooked getting the core to temp and holding it there long enough to pasteurize. This probably isn't a problem for long-cooked braising cuts, but could be for tender ones (especially something thick, like a turkey breast or beef roast). Also, if there are pasteurization tables for cooking from frozen, I don't recall having seen them. Perhaps you could back into the calculation by tacking together Table 2.3 and the pasteurization times from the regular tables, using the minimums as the core presumably is already at temp, but that seems a bit ad hoc. Rather, I'd defrost conventionally (which keeps the meat cool) and cook from 41F as the standard pasteurization tables assume.
FeChef: That would be me. FWIW, the four hour rule I mentioned in the earlier conversation comes in Baldwin in the text following Table 2.3. To understand why this works, review his discussion of food safety (earlier in the Guide). There, he explains, "Most food pathogens stop growing by 122°F (50°C), but the common food pathogen Clostridium perfringens can grow at up to 126.1°F (52.3°C). So in sous vide cooking, you usually cook at 130°F (54.4°C) or higher." Notably, of itself, reaching temp only stops further reproduction of the pathogens. To reduce them to safe levels, i.e., to pastueurize, the meat must be held at temp for the times given in the pasteurization tables. As I recall, you did that, which is why I said you're good to go. But, of course, only you can decide whether you're comfortable doing so.
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I'd rank a stick blender pretty high on the list, but agree with DDF that the Cuisinart isn't a good choice. (Tried one and gave it away.) I'm pretty happy with my Breville, but can't comment on the Oster or Waring as I've not tried them. Three features of the Breville I like are that it goes down to a pretty slow speed (as well as high), that it's easy to clear the blending head when making salad dressings and other relatively thick mixtures, and that the shaft can be detached (particularly handy when clearing the blending head and makes it easier to clean).
BTW, I also have the Bamix stick blender recommended by the Modernist Cuisine team. It's brilliant for emulsions (especially custards and the famous sodium citrate mac 'n. cheese), but the shaft can't be detached (which I find cumbersome) and the puree blade tends to clog. If I had to pick only one, I'd go with the Breville.
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You're welcome. Glad I was able to help.
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Anybody else playing with pizzelles?
Well, I used to. Alas, I no longer have the room for a pizzelle baker, nor an ice cream maker. Mainly I'm posting to pass along another way of going about the ice cream thing. Years ago, I had an idea similar to Kerry's, but decided it would be more practical to use the pizzelles to make sandwiches rather than cones. For this, I got a Villaware baker which made four small (2-1/2 inch) pizzelles. The recipe I used was very simple,* as I was aiming for waffle-cone flavor rather than pizzelles as such and wanted ones that wouldn't upstage the ice cream. Baked until crisp, then froze. Topped half the pizzelles with 4 tbsp each home made ice cream (somewhat soft) and placed the other half over, forming sandwiches about 3/4 inches thick including the pizzelles. Froze solid on a baking sheet, then transferred to a bag to store.
* FWIW, the recipe I used was this. Don't recall the source. Cream an egg with 1/4 c sugar; add 2-1/2 tbsp unsalted butter (melted and cooled), 2 tbsp milk or light cream, and 1 tsp vanilla extract; mix well. Combine 2/3 c all purpose flour, 1 tsp baking powder and a pinch of salt. Combne egg and flour mixtures; mix well; let stand covered at least 15 minutes. Using a scant 1/2 tbsp batter per pizzelle, bake until steam stops coming out of the baker and pizzelles are light brown, 30 seconds to 1 minute. This recipe makes 20 to 24 small pizzelles, enough to make sandwiches with 2 pints of ice cream (with some left over).
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In addition, one has to look at the failure rate and perpetual problems with home sous vide equipment. This seems more like a Popular Science or Popular Mechanics project out of the 1950s, like building your own computer or airplane, rather than a true culinary sea change.
You may be right. Time will tell. Bear in mind that you see lots of posts about equipment failure here because this is one of the few places on the internet to raise such issues. Plus, of course, complaints stand out more than successes, notwithstanding oodles of posts relating the latter. My own experiences with LTLT, for example, have been almost uniformly positive, the problems with blowtorches being the main exception. For the time being, I've done well using a countertop convection oven for browning. Others prefer other solutions. IMHO, the Searzall may be the tool which closes the circle and moves LTLT to the mainstream. Or not. As I said, only time will tell.
BTW, on review, I realize DDG linked in Post #3 the same Cooking Issues blog post I linked in Post #8.
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sous vide turkey breast 4 inches thick took 4 hours to reach 135F water temp is145F. After 6 hours its now 141F and climbing. Should reach 145F in another hour. This is still safe right? Any experts here?
Not an expert, but the standard as I understand it (per Baldwin, especially) is to reach130F within four hours, So, you should be good to go.
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They're not sexy, but I think the best answer to this question (and it's one I've answered often IRL) is one of the basic cookbooks like Betty Crocker, Better Homes & Gardens. or Good Housekeeping. There are plenty of better and more comprehensive cookbooks out there, some of which have been mentioned above and in the linked thread, but IMHO those are best as second or third, etc. cookbooks. For a beginner, a basic cookbook which covers lots of familiar dishes is the place to start.
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For those interested, here's a link to the Cooking Issues blog (edited since first posted) explaining the reasoning behind the Searzall. Notably, as mentioned in the article linked by the OP, Dave Arnold originally assumed the problem with torch taste was incomplete combustion of the fuel, but later realized the problem was very high heat too closely concentrated. This device, of course, is designed to solve the problem by diffusing the torch.
ps - Kodos to lesliec for mentioning this Cooking Issues post back in Part 8 of the Sous Vide thread, which is how I learned about it.
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Another solution to this problem is to use a pizza stone or similar surface to deliver direct heat to the pie pan. Not necessary, and I've baked lots of pies without one, but a direct contact heat sink will make this somewhat easier, especially with foil pans.
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I've since decided the soup is better and more easily made by simply roasting carrots, then adding back the water lost to evaporation (using a scale to determine exactly how much to add back).
Thank you! I've been thinking about trying this, in the absence of a pressure cooker. Do you use the baking soda? Do you roast the carrots uncovered and dry from the start? I am looking forward to doing this.
No, I didn't use baking soda, as I've been roasting veggies for a long time without it. An oven is a good deal hotter and drier than a pressure cooker, so it's not surprising this worked. Baked in an open pan (ceramic, nearly nonstick) (not sure that's important, but it's how I do roasted veggies these days), dry except for the butter (which I reduced by half as a matter of personal preference), stirring every ten minutes. Pulled when the caramelization seemed right, about 30 minutes at 350ºF in a countertop convection oven (based on prior experience, about 40 minutes at 375ºF in a conventional oven also would work). Deglazed the baking dish with the water used to correct for evaporation.
Hope that helps. Good luck.
Is There a Way to Measure Appliance Electricity Use?
in Kitchen Consumer
Posted
Another endorsement for the Kill-a-Watt. It's wizard and dead simple to use. Can display in watts or amps, and can display total killowatt hours used since plug-in.