LoftyNotions

Hi Mike, The beef cheek pastrami recipe is about right as far as salt is concerned. Sugar is a bit high for my personal preference, but your tastes may vary. It looks like there is an error in the basic pink brine scaling 1 on page 3-168. It says to use 10% salt, but that would be extremely salty for an equilibrium brine. In general, for cooked products, I find that a brine consisting of about 2 percent salt, 1 percent sugar and 0.25 percent Insta Cure is about right. These percentages are based on the total weight of meat plus water if brining, or total weight of meat if using a dry rub. If you're following the pastrami recipe, the aromatics that go in the brine are about right. Do keep in mind that the spices used for the rub after brining make about 5 times what you need for 1 kg of meat. I've found that brining in a small bucket is a lot easier than trying to vacuum seal meat plus brine. HTH, Larry

I used the soaking vinegar. After blending in a Blendtec blender it was just the right consistency. I thought the acidity was ok after adding salt, but you could always use a water/vinegar blend if you wanted less acid. Larry

Alsatian Mustard update. After aging for over a week I still thought the mustard needed more salt. I ended up adding 4 more grams which brought the salt content up to about 2 percent of the total of the mustard seeds plus vinegar. We felt that the acidity was just right. I might play with some different vinegars in the future, but I don't think I'll be buying much prepared mustard in the future. One thing we noticed was that when we first removed the mustard from the vacuum bag it was extremely hot. Several hours later it was just right. Larry

16.5 inches everywhere except over the peninsula overlooking the family room/eating bar. 29 inches there. Larry

I went the easy route and bought a ready made PID controller from Auber Instruments. I bought a WS1500CPH which also will control a roaster that I use as a sous vide cooker. Using this approach you just plug the controller in to the wall outlet and the smoker in to the controller. Put the temperature probe in the smoker, set your times and temperatures, and walk away. If you want to save some money and build your own controller, here is a LINK to one solution. HTH, Larry

Hi Peter, I think you have found another error in the book. As ChrisZ mentions in your other topic, it should probably read follow steps 3-5 above. So, the direct answer is that you followed the directions. That being said, since you were using the high concentration method, step 6 directs you to the next page which gives you soak, rinse and rest times for various types of meat. Since turkey wings aren't listed, probably the most similar cut to get guidance from would be chicken legs, skin on, bone in. The soak time for that cut is only 7 hours, with no rinse and a 3 hour rest. With your wings having soaked for 2 days, they would have been extremely salty without hours of rinsing. A 2 or more day brine would have been more appropriate using scaling 1. Using high concentration, timing always enters into the picture. A rule of thumb I follow is that for equalibrium brining, I typically stay around 1 to 2 percent salt if the meat will subsequently cooked, and if it will be an aged, uncooked product salt runs more in the range of 2.75 to 3 percent with an addition of 0.25 percent cure. If dry rubbed, it's just the percentage of the meat. If brining, it's the percentage of meat plus liquid. HTH, Larry ETA: I have to say it. .. I can't resist... Did they smell fowl?

My gut reaction, based on tasting right after blending was that more salt would make it better. More on that when it has aged a bit. Larry[Moderator note: This topic continues in Cooking with "Modernist Cuisine" (Part 3)]

I read further along that you have already sampled the mustard but if you have some left (or for the next person) here's two low-tech, non MC ideas... 1. Try draining it a little. Super-fine cheese cloth (called butter muslin) might work but a coffee filter would probably be better. Maybe drain half of it and scrape the residue (retained mustard) back into the rest to thicken? 2. Make another batch, draining the seeds before grinding and combine. That should get you at least half-way thick. Good luck. In spite of having read these posts, I just did the same thing. I poured all the vinegar and seeds into the blender. After a couple seconds of mixing I slapped myself and said DOH! (Well, that's the printable version). I have a Blend Tech Blender, so decided to give it another 30 seconds or so. It's now a perfect mustardy texture. I'll leave it in a vacuum bag for a week and see how it goes. I honestly don't know whether we're supposed to drain it, but so far it looks like a commercial style blender will thicken it up just fine. Larry

My personal experience with smoking chicken in the Bradley is that the skin doesn't get crisp. If you want crisp skin, you'll probably want to finish it on your grill. Most Bradley based chicken recipes call for temps around 210F. Modernist Cuisine calls for even lower temperatures, around 170F. MC also mentions that smoked poultry skin can be problematic in that it starts turning tough and leathery due to chemicals in the smoke. Fish smoke better at lower temperatures, with hot smoking temperatures typically being in the range of 150F. One plus for the Bradley is that the puck burner is separate from the cabinet heater, so if you leave the cabinet heater off, the puck burner will only raise the cabinet temperature in the neighborhood of 70F above ambient. Cold smoking is a different matter. See my post #25. Edited to add: There is no problem with smoking poultry. You can get anything as smokey as you could possibly want it. Here is a LINK to what a lot of Bradley users use for salmon. HTH, Larry

Fascinating writing. Thanks, maggiethecat. Larry

I've found that with just the smoke generator on and a puck burning, but inside the chamber, the temperature rise is approximately 60F to 70F above ambient. With the cold smoke attachment, it's about 25F to 30 F. (4 rack original) Make sure you leave the vent at least 1/4 to 1/2 way open. Smoke rolling back into the generator box has caused some people problems. Larry

I've cold smoked Salmon and cheese in my Bradley (Nova Style Lox) using a cold smoke attachment that separates the smoke element from the main chamber. I haven't hot smoked any fish, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work well. Chicken is no problem either. The only downside I see to the Digital is that it has some temperature variation. When you get right down to it though, our household ovens probably have as much variation. Do you have specific concerns about fish and chicken? Larry

I think they're great: lots of choices (though I think think intensity of the smoke given up by different types is as much a consideration as the "flavor"); inexpensive; convenient. What else do you want to know? Some people seem to resent being tied to them, or find them overpriced. You don't, though. Which are your favorite varieties? I probably use 70% hickory, 20% apple and a smattering of the others. Larry

The PID controller (proportional integral derivative) brings basically hands free operation to the party. An additional benefit is that if you get the right one you can also use it in conjunction with a large rice cooker or roaster for sous vide cooking. I have a Sous Vide Supreme, but there are times I either need dual temperatures or more space than it provides. Without it you either need to monitor the smoker temperature quite often with the original or buy the digital version. Either of those options will work however. I like the pucks. Some people think they're too expensive, but I think the price is reasonable considering the convenience. They end up costing around $1.00 per hour of smoke. I've used hickory, apple, cherry and maple. They also have mesquite, alder and a couple other flavors. There are guys on the Bradley site who have figured out how to make their own. It's not worth my time. You could always get just the smoker and see how that goes before investing in a PID. There are a lot of people who get along just fine that way. HTH, Larry

I have an Original Bradley Smoker and I would definitely buy it again. I decided on the Original versus the digital because of reports of temperature variation of 20 degrees or more with the digital version. I bought an Auber PID for temperature control. The only reason I would even consider a digital would be to get the extra height and 2 extra rack slots. Only having 4 racks hasn't posed a problem for me. From an ease of use standpoint I love this setup. The Auber PID can be programmed for multiple time/temperature settings. When you want the smoke to start, you just stack the wood pucks in the tube, using 1puck for each 20minutes of smoke (plus 2 pusher pucks to get the first puck on to the puck burner). Some people think the heating element isn't strong enough to recover to your desired temperature fast enough, but I haven't found this to be a problem. Some people have added a second heating element to get around this perceived problem. Bradley did have a batch of units with defective heating elements and I happened to get one of them. Bradley was very good to deal with getting a replacement. Take a look around the Bradley forums. Most posters there are Bradley fans, myself included, but you can also get an idea of what people perceive as problems HTH, Larry

Or you could switch to induction. No open flame! That's an awesome idea! A safety reason to buy new toys, er, I mean absolutely necessary equipment. I think my wife is NOT going to like you. Larry

Just a word of warning to those of you considering making the Modernist Fried Chicken. 225C 435F oil is a LOT more reactive to inserting moist foods than 175C 350F oil is. I had considered this and taken precautions, but I still had a significant oil boil-over to contend with. I heated the oil in a Dutch Oven over a gas burner. Before putting any of the chicken in the oil I thoroughly soaked a towel with water and had a fire extinguisher handy just in case. I also turned off the gas before inserting the chicken. Holy cow, what a mess! I had oil everywhere. Luckily it didn't flame up and all I had to do was disassemble the cooktop and clean it. If you're going to try this indoors I'd suggest using a much deeper pot than a dutch oven that has a lot of headroom. Better yet, do it outside in a turkey fryer or over another suitable flame far away from anything combustible. The chicken was excellent however. Larry

+1 my wife found some old wire milk crates that work perfectly. they stack 2 high and there's still room to pack stuff on top. Plywood would be great also. larry Edited to add space

Chemicals...

This question just came up today amongst a passel of eG'ers - where does one buy mylar bags and O2 absorbers? I found several sources on line, but most required higher quantity purchases. Here is what I found on AMAZON. There are also several survivalist stores that carry these items. HTH, Larry

Hi Peter, What I actually do is weigh the meat I'm going to cure and weigh exact quantities of salt, sugar and instacure. For example, if I have a 1 kg belly I measure 18.5 g salt, 10 g sugar and 2.5 g Instacure and rub the total amount in to the belly. I don't keep a bunch of premixed cure around because of the possibility of the mix not staying homogeneous. MC would call for 6 g of cure for 1 kg of belly as opposed to the 2.5 g I use. Sorry if I'm confusing the issue. Larry

Hi Peter, I don't even think in terms of what ratio cure ingredients are to each other. For dry cures, I measure them as a percentage of the meat. For brines, I measure them as a percentage of the total of the water and meat. I always mix my cure specifically for the piece of meat I'm working with so there is no problem with ingredients separating. You're right about the salt and sugar. In the case of bacon, which is a cooked, refrigerated product, they're primarily for flavor. In the case of pancetta or other dry cured product, higher salt levels are important from a food safety aspect. One thing I'll point out before continuing is that the M/C recipe calls for a bone in belly. I don't know how that affects absorption of the cure over 7 days. Their recipe calls for 2.5% salt, 1.8% sugar and 0.6% Instacure #1 which works out to the interrelationship you calculated above. The salt and sugar levels they use are very close to what I use in pancetta. The 0.6% cure #1 is a little over 2 times the amount of cure I typically use for either bacon or pancetta. Based on what I've learned from several sources, I've adopted 0.25% as the amount of either instacure #1 or #2 I use for any cured product. This seems to be the minimum safe level currently published. I personally wouldn't be concerned using twice that quantity however. As a percentage of meat, for bacon I use around 1.85% salt, 1% sugar and 0.25% cure #1 which works out to a 60 / 32 / 8 ratio, or close to R&P. For pancetta, I use 2.5% salt, 1.5% sugar and 0.25% Instacure #2 which works out to a 52.5 / 31.5 / 5 ratio. That's a really long winded way of saying, nah it probably doesn't matter. If you do the comparison, I'd be interested in your comments on whether the increased amount of cure affects the taste. HTH, Larry

And my favorite, deli dumpster dive.

Be careful with Activa. Once it's opened and exposed to air it degrades fairly rapidly (or at least that's what they say). I keep my opened pack vacuum sealed and in the freezer as per Ajinomoto's recommendation. I have read (on another eG topic) that some people report decent shelf life for opened packs, but I've not heard of keeping it at room temperature, and I don't want to waste any by trying it out. Cheers, Peter. Hi Peter, Thanks for that. That's kind of what I'm hearing also. It's good to get the information about vacuum packaging and freezing it. I'll definitely do that with what I get. What percent vacuum do you use? I guess over time we'll be the test subjects for shelf life. Regards, Larry Edited for spelling Larry, I've had a sample package of GS that has recently celebrated its 2 year birthday since first being opened. I think it's important to say though, that I'm neurotic about how it's kept. When I plan on using it, I take it out of the non-defrosting chest freezer only long enough to remove the amount I need. I then press as much of the air from the sample bag as I can, and heat seal it shut, then put that in a vacuum bag and remove the air again with my foodsaver (my chamber vac is still in the works). I do it this way because my foodsaver would suck the powder into the pump - which you won't ahve a problem with your chamber vac. The original ajinomoto bag that holds the sample has a metal foil layer and is very good at keeping oxygen out, unlike most plastic vacuum bags. They also have an oxygen absorber in the bag to absorb any residual oxygen. I've actually added more oxygen absorbers as time has gone on, becasue I don't know how effective the original one is anymore. So, if you want to distribute the RM, I'd do the same thing - get a pack of either Mylar or foil lined bags, and stick an oxygen absorber in there with them, and you should be good to go. Thanks for the information, folks. Mylar bags and oxygen absorbers are ordered. Larry

Be careful with Activa. Once it's opened and exposed to air it degrades fairly rapidly (or at least that's what they say). I keep my opened pack vacuum sealed and in the freezer as per Ajinomoto's recommendation. I have read (on another eG topic) that some people report decent shelf life for opened packs, but I've not heard of keeping it at room temperature, and I don't want to waste any by trying it out. Cheers, Peter. Hi Peter, Thanks for that. That's kind of what I'm hearing also. It's good to get the information about vacuum packaging and freezing it. I'll definitely do that with what I get. What percent vacuum do you use? I guess over time we'll be the test subjects for shelf life. Regards, Larry Edited for spelling