Pam Brunning

You must get more positive David. If the food is under seasoned ask for the salt. If there is not enough sauce ask for more. You are the one that is paying, it only costs a few pence for a ladle of sauce - these restaurants will get away with murder if you let them. Standards will never rise unless those that eat out regularly point out where they are going wrong - they need to know.

You may not like to do this ,you will find the staler the egg the easier it will peel.Duck eggs kept in waterglass for a few months peel easy :

Thank you all. I am roasting some at the moment. I like the sound of the tart - if I have enough juice from the roasting I will try it.

Well you can't say I didn't warn you John! We went for the cheap option our set lunch came to £100. We were very disappointed - there was no wow factor as there used to be in Ludlow. It is over priced for the very ordinary ingredients they use but I suppose that is the problem when opening a restaurant in one of the most expensives square miles in the world.

I have been given a box of grapes, anyone any ideas about cooking desserts with them?

I gave up with the GFG a few years ago. We used to be reporters until I contacted them to let them know that several restaurants we had been to told us they knew their local inspector and they were always told when he/she was coming. One establishment, that received a county restaurant of the year award, told us that one of the GFG top inspectors rang them, introduced himself and booked his table. The GFG response was to strike us off their reporters list.

Thats the thing with Hardens John the reports tell it as it is .If we are travelling to part of the country in which we dont know any eateries refer to Hardens seldom fails.

Well, looking through the new guide, Hardens seem to have got it right, again. Their ratings are based on reports from Joe Public and they rate regardless of the establishments Michelin status, and it seeks out good eating establishments that Michelin have never heard of. We agree with 99% of their ratings both good and bad. If you haven't got a copy log on and order one quickly - it is a guide you shouldn't be without and NO I am not employed by Hardens but I am a member and as such if you put in more than six reports a year you get a free copy.

You are right Nick. They often spend a lot of time getting the bits right then don't seem to bother so much about the main course.

Well done David - you should join our food heroes, traveling all that way in those conditions! Thats a critical report for you. The monk fish looks good and at least it looks as though Marcus knows how to make sauces and is not afraid to serve them. We must try it one day next summer - we don't venture far this weather. We tried the Wesley House in Winchcombe a while back - don't bother!!

That turbot looks good but are they as good as wild? I had the chance of some the other day but didn't get one as I try to avoid farmed fish as normally, because they have not had enough exercise, they haven't got the texture and a good flake like the wild variety.

Your analogy with Picasso was a brilliant one Nick. Yes he was a great artist when he was first recognised then, after he became famous, he realised he could get away with any old rubbish as no one would dare criticise someone who, up to that time had been acknowledged as a master. A classic case of the ‘king hath no clothes’. I offer a photo of how Marco Pierre White’s chefs treat a piece of prime venison. I agree culinary skills always need to move on with the use of different techniques, flavour combinations etc. I do it myself but I make sure the dish is perfected before it is presented at table and that the flavours are cohesive. But to be fair I learnt one thing that day - manchego is a good accompaniment for foie gras, I will try it sometime - it could even be interesting with a duck or chicken liver parfait.

Well, well this thread has stirred up some interest - I thought it might. I will expand on the theory. First of all he reason I put the Waterside on was as a complete contrast to the other photos. To be fair to the Waterside, their restaurant dishes are beautifully presented but I wouldn’t normally take photos. On this occasion I was a guest and ‘official’ photographer, (oh well some people like my photos! ) the presentation came before the dish was carved see below: As for the ‘meat and two veg’ comments, if the meat is top quality it needs little doing to it other than cooking properly and combining with accompaniments that harmonise in flavour and give a good texture changes, this is so often lacking. When I say cooked properly I don’t consider 70 hours at 60° cooking properly, that is just sacrilege with prime ingredients. When we were in the curing business one of our main selling points was to tell people that our hams were properly cooked, very slowly simmered not just pasteurised as many hams are. That piece of venison was probably a prime joint but it looks as though it has just come out of a corned beef tin and sliced. As for serving plaice in a fine dining establishment, I consider that unforgivable. It is a low quality fish fit for a quick Friday night supper battered or bread crumbed. Look at this piece of wild halibut I had last week in a new restaurant on the south coast - that is what I call a main course portion of a top quality ingredient. I have eaten in some excellent Michelin star restaurants and have returned again and again but I have eaten in many more that I wouldn’t bother with. Le Champignon Sauvage, Le Manoir, Gidley Park, The Sportsman, The Vanilla Pod, Hambelton Hall are all place where the raw ingredients are treated with respect not messed about with for the sake of making a pretty picture or tarting up cheap ingredients. I have not included The Fat Duck in this round up as I consider that pure theatre, alright if you want to pay £400-£500 for a performance. I suppose that is the main criteria - would you return.

I have never had a problem with using flash in a restaurant - it is a very low light flash. Often the staff offer to take some and in this instance the couple right next to us were facinated and the gentleman told his wife off for not bringing her camera. By the way this was not the tasting menu it was supposed to be a three course meal.

Rowley Leigh recently claimed, “I gave up Michelin stars in about 1987 when I wanted to do away with fripperies. The only reason I crave one now is because it is impossible to recruit chefs without one." This year I have been to several Michelin one star restaurants, one two star and one three star and the only one worth returning to, in my opinion, would be the three star. The two star was Hibiscus in London (see report on Forums - Lunch in London). We recently visited Pennyhill Park, Bagshot Surrey. Chef Michael Wignall has one star and is obviously desperately trying to get another. The high cost of the meal in these establishments is often down to the complicated structure of the dishes and the time spent in the preparation of ‘fripperies’. It is certainly not down to the cost of the tiny amounts of meat or fish used, which are often cooked ‘sou vide’ so as to be uniform and uninteresting. As for sauces, the few drips that decorate a plate often might as well be made from an oxo cube, for all they add to the dish as there is usually not enough to taste. When ‘nouvelle cuisine’ arrived it was considered the latest fad, often ridiculed because of its parsimonious portions. Looking at 1970’s photos of ‘nouvelle cuisine’ the dishes look large compared with today’s ‘Michelin Fripperies’. Is this really what we want when eating out? Pennyhill Park is a lovely venue and the feeling is of utter luxury. The staff are affable and service is excellent - so what is wrong with the place? The food - one gets the impression that Michael Wignall is trying too hard to create a masterpiece - more for the eye than the palate. There were lots of bits some of which were better executed than the main dishes. A very good mushroom and truffle soup with parsnip crisps and taramasalata dip followed by pepper jelly rolled round smoked salmon mousse. Then we started lunch, my tiny rolls of foie gras were served with shavings of mature manchago - that was an interesting combination, the cheese heightened the palate and made the foie gras taste full and creamy - one up to Wignall for that one. Mr B’s veal heart was not a success - obviously cooked sou vide it was dry and lacking in flavour. The accompanying pickled carrots were the best part of the dish. Now a pre main course - a rather tough puff of gruyere cheese on a bed of lentils and chopped veal heart - well I suppose they had to use it up somewhere. My main course was venison, once again it looked as though the water bath had been in action. Six small rectangular, uniform slices of tender, moist though very bland, venison - no nice caramelised crunchy outside with a slightly bloody centre. The plate looked exquisite with turned artichokes and palm hearts, some drips of this sauce and drips of that sauce - any good flavours were gone before you could discern what they were. As far as the whole dish was concerned it was just a collection of ingredients with little cohesion but I fared much better than Mr B - again. Plaice with cocks combs, his fish was grossly over cooked and under seasoned. He had to call the waiter back to ask which were the cock’s combs. He was bitterly disappointed as he had read of them on e gullet a while back and was interested in trying them - the portion was too small to get any flavour from it - he is still not sure what they taste of. He then had to call a waitress to ask for some salt as the fish was completely lacking. Much to our amusement this obviously caused trauma - she disappeared out of one door came back in another disappeared again and eventually, several minutes later, returned with a little pot containing sea salt. The pre dessert was better than the desserts. My dessert was a poached fig with a slice of fig cake served with the ubiquitous drips of this and smear of that, the crisp sugary flakes did give a welcome texture change - all pleasant enough but no wow factor. A chocolate and pistachio pud came in the same category. We skipped coffee, it is often better and definitely cheaper, at home and we had had enough sweet bits. We have had similar disappointing experiences in recent years at several other single star establishments. Now look at a meal at a three star establishment - look at the size of the foie gras, the perfectly cooked fish, conventionally roasted lamb with plenty of delicious sauce. To be fair the lamb was specially roasted for a small group but you can see the generous portions on the other courses as well, including the beautiful assiette of desserts. Top quality ingredients cooked in conventional ways with reasonable sized portions. No need for a lot of ‘fripperies’. It is no wonder that the Waterside Inn at Bray has kept three Michelin stars for 25 years. The trouble is I can rarely afford to eat there so I think I must visit Rowley Leigh someday soon. How often do ‘Michelin fripperies’ disappoint you?

Doing a report shortly - not impressed but have been to a good one since - watch this space!

I would begrudge the money at these rip off restaurants. Whem I spend money eating out I expect to pay for skill and a new experience.

I don't think it is just rose coloured spectacles - Bernie Inns did the job right - their crispy half duck was to die for. It was all down to their fantastic grills - every few weeks you would hear of one going up in smoke!! Don't believe you Nick!!

Why is everyone raving about a steak? Why pay money for a steak in a restaurant? Buy some good beef and cook it at home, if you have the right equipment there is little skill in cooking a steak and you can choose your beef and make sure it has been hung properly. I agree with Sunbeam about the trend for steaks and burgers - it comes in the category of 'inverted snobbery'. I wouldn’t touch a burger I hadn’t made myself, you never know what might be in it!

Prawncrackers if you want a realy good steak you need to go south a bit and try The Wellington Pub at Wellington, Hereford. All their beef is Hereford - much better quality than the ubiquitous Aberdeen Angus that you get in most places.

Interesting report Martin. We went there for lunch a few days after they received their *. The restaurant was full of their local friends celebrating their new *. As you say the set menu comes with a glass of wine but on this particular day everyone was getting a top up, except us. We were put it the corner and ignored by madam. I remember I had duck with an oriental sauce - the little drizzel of sauce was good but not sufficient for the dish so I asked for a little more, when a jug eventualy arrived they had just sent out some soy sauce! We too had the bread and butter pudding - it was dry and very uninteresting. We said at the time that they needed a good pastry chef - they obviously still haven't got one. The whole experiance was very disappointing - we haven't been back. The Label Anglaise chicken makes me laugh - they had it on the menu at Hibiscus with a £10 supplement. Take a non intensively reared chicken, give it a fancy name and charge twice as much for it - nice business. Did it come with a Little Red Tractor on it?

Prawncrackers are you being sarcastic?? A steak house exciting They have only got to get one thing wrong - the steak - and you have had your chips!

I thought you were using flash these days David. Your photos have improved a lot recently.-new camera? Let us hope this trend does not cross the pond. I think egullet should be making a stand against restaurants banning photography. Within certain guide lines ie. not photographing other diners or the whole restaurant without permision. How about a black list of restaurants with a 'no photography' policy Fat Guy?

Sorry David We were booked for 2nd November but had to cancel, spent the morning stuck on the M4 - compleatly closed because of a lorry accident!! Off to Pennyhill Park on Thursday for lunch offer - will keep you posted. Pam

As a freelance writer and editor this post is of great interest to me. When searching for material on the net I always check first to see if the website is copyright. If it is I ask permission to use any material. If I use recipes off the web I always try them first and make the necessary adjustments and if it resembles the original put 'based on'and credit it if there is someone to credit. As for images, most are copyright, that is why I like Wikipedia as most of their images are free and of good resolution. As far as I am aware you can quote up to 70 words from any text without permission as long as it is credited. We are a not-for-profit organisation and I can't afford to land us with a court case, and from my perspective I would not be very happy to find my prose used without consent. The subject is a minefield and it is about time some guidelines were drawn to cover the web so that it is properly policed.