Edward J

nougat, Italian nougat, caramels, candied fruit/ginger?

I guess ignoring the minimum wage and implementing a "tipping wage" of under $3.00/hr is "impartial" as well. No one is holding the hospitality organizations (the ones who lobbied and got "tipping wages" in the first place) accountable. Who will?

I think Aesop had a fable about ''belling the cat''. No restauranteur will be brave enough to do that. There is a reason that N.American car mnfctrs finally went to unleaded gasoline, put in seatbelts, and follow safety and fuel effeciency standards. There is a reason why the public has a great distrust of oil companies who set their own enviromental standards and police them, same for pipeline companies, and probably the same for financial institutions stock brokers,and day traders. You need an impartial body to set standards and police them. If you don't, you have "tipping wages'' for servers, total disregard for minimum wages for servers, culinary schools going haywire, etc.

Thank you Sigma, Thak you Sigma, that is, IMHO one the best comebacks I've had yet. And I say that in all honesty and with no sarcasm or malice.

Refresh my memory.......

No, they get fired and have a long think about how and why they screwed up. Some smarten up and get back to work, some even go further and move on to higher things. Some drop down a notch and are content, and some leave the industry. I think the original idea of this thread was how to get servers to rely less on tips and more on how to earn a respectable salary. I think pretty much everyone agreed that "tipping wages" of under $3/hr was a slap in the face for servers, ignoring the minimum wage a kick in the crotch, and, on the other side of the coin, a server taking home $2-$300 a night while the rest of the restaurant staff have to wait until the end of their pay-period for less than stellar wages wasn't fair either. It's fun argueing the merits and weak points of certification, and I'm more than happy to discuss other ideas that other posters may have of how to address the tipping situation. Are there any?

If one is underperforming, they get the choice to perform as per expectations or they get to to see the other side of the entrance door.... Like I 've said sooooo many times now, this system of pay scale "pegged" to qualifications is used by many trades and professions.

It availith an ascending pay scale based on qualifications achieved....

Ehh...noooo. The only thing the Kremlin has in common with the metric system is that Napoleon (who commisioned the system of weights and measures) made anyone who didn't use the system "examine" the guiltotine for sharpness and edge retention.... The only guarantees anyone can guarantee are death and taxes. And yet, a Gr. 12 diploma (certification?) is no guarantee of anything, but how many colleges and universities demand this certification before you can even write entrance exams? A valid driver's license is no guarantee that you can drive properly, but how many insurance co.'s demand it in order to insure your car? How many car rental co.'s demand it in order to rent you a car? What certification offers is the lack of an excuse not to know any better. A medical practioner can screw up royally but can not claim ingnorance. Will a car mnfctr honour it's warranty if you get an unlicensed (certified?) mechanic to repair it? Will an insurance co., honour it's policy if you get an unlicensed plumber to install a major gas appliance and it catches fire? Certification is part of the social fabric in N. America, and it has nothing to do with the Kremlin....

Hooh-boy. You've already got certification in your country, have had for years and years, and your trades and professions love it. Why do you think you pay your HVAC/refrigeraton repair guy $80/per hour plus truck fee, plus parts, plus taxes? Your plumber to install a hot water tank $75/hr plus, plus, plus? All trades have "tickets" certifying them to operate this piece of equipment, install this, or design that system. And their employers pay according to the tickets or benchmarks achieved. You need a non-American to tell you how things really are, and I'm telling you that you, as Americans, embrace the metric system and would complain bitterly if things changed. Look in your wallet. Ten dimes make a buck, 100 pennies make a buck, ten bucks makes a ten note, 100 make a hundred note, and so on. All in base units of 10. For a really screwed up Imperial system look at the English before thier metric conversion: Pennies and ha'pence, shillings and what not, some in base units of 8, some 12, some 16. Here's how things have changed in B.C., Canada since 2010 when the Provincial Gov't chaged the rules for the "Red Seal" certifiation for cooks: You need some form of school for Cook I, or a cetain amount of hours in the industry to write this test. After this, you need to work a reqired amount of hours in the "field" befor you write the Cook II test. Then again, a certain amount of hours worked before you can write Cook III or the "Red Seal". With each jump,. there is an increase in pay, and with each jump, employers are not obliged to pay for the increase And yet, many employeers are demanding the "Red Seal" certification for hires and paying the wages it demands. And many employers are bragging/advertising about how al thier "chefs" are Red Seal certified. Culinary schools can offer courses that accelerate the required working hours for Cook I, but have to design thier curriculum to meet the required knowledge base. We have some kind of standards in place. It's somethnig to think about and base a model around for servers, don't you think?

What is it with you and certification? I'm not saying this in a snarky way, either. Seriously, why is the answer to almost every culinary problem "certification?" Certification doesn't mean jack in this country. The "certified computer technicians" are always the worst of the bunch. Certified ANYTHING means the barest level of competence. At least when the person in question has certification and nothing else. No, give me someone who can hold their own in a kitchen on a Saturday night in Las Vegas any day. I don't think certification would solve a SINGLE problem in the restaurant industry. All it would do is add another unnecessary level of bureaucracy. DOH!!!!! I think we can all agree that the hospitality biz has problems, right? Cooks with two years school an a few years experience getting paid jack-sh*t, servers taking home $300 a night and the dishwasher waiting two weeks for a $200 paycheck. But in other countries this isn't the case. Cooks, waiters, dishwasher all paid a fair, liveable wage, and no one takes home $300 a night. What's the difference? Well besides being another country, the difference is certification. Like I said in other posts, many trades use this system: Plumbers electricians, HVAC, mechanics, etc. They all base their pay scales on benchmarks that have been achieved. And it obviously works. It's the mentality that needs to be changed. No one can admit that the hospitality biz has a problem or that things need to be changed. Why can't all those (deleted) foreigners just knuckle under and use our system? Back in the 70's GM and Chrysler were whinging that Asians and Europeans weren't buying their cars. And they kept on whinging and crying until they finally thunk of putting the steering wheel on the "wrong side"--since that is how most Asian countries drive . As a hobby woodworker I purchase specialty and antique tools, and many dealers are in the U.S. Most won't deal with Canadians because we don't use U.S. funds. DOH! Of course we don't, we're a different country using different money. Paypal for a long time wouldn't accept Canadian users because we didn't have a US. address or US Visa account. DOH! Of course we don't, we're not US Citizens. Even now, when I try to send Postal money orders--in US funds, many US Banks won't accept them, because they weren't issued in the US. DOH! What a mentality. Look at the hospitality industry in other countries and see how it works. Then compare it to yours. There are better ways of doing things, but you have to be open about it, if you're constantly on the defense and not even listening to how other countries have solved their hospitality industry problems, then nothing will change.

And you might also get the servers who miss the "good ol' days" when they often went home with several hundred dollars cash in their pockets. This issue simply is not so obvious as some would believe. There definitely are a great many servers that like the system just fine as it is. You can't go raising prices up by 20% without some kind of justification, or no one--customers, employers, and employees won't buy into it. You need a system of benchmarks and qualifications to justify and keep the 20% mark-up specifically for service labour costs, and they (benchmarks) have to be on a graduating scale. For instance, it would be a very tough sell for a lunch (or breakfast) place that specializes in the $10-$20.00 bill/check per person to add a 20% increase for service. And you can forget about fast-food burger joints. The server does not need extensive--if any, wine/liquor knowledge, formal place setting knowledge, or extensive cooking and ingredient knowledge, as compared toa fine dining place. As I've stated before in this thread and others, you need a graduated set of benchmarks for servers, I.e. Server I qualification with no previous experience, Server II that requries X hours of previous experience and a basic wine/liquor knowledge, and Server III qualification, that builds on the last two qualifications and would probably be a pre-requisite for a Maitre D' position. But hey, all this would be trade infrastructure, and the N. American Hospitality biz is notoriously bad for not having any trade infrastructure. If anyone can call themselves a Chef, if any school can call it's gradutes "chefs", then what's the criteria for a server?

So JR., have you put together a marketing plan yet?

Uhhh...Not only Sysco, but meat purveyors (mine tries to sell me 12 vareities of cheesecake and 8 of fruit pies. Hey! it's all going on a refrigerated food truck, right?) and especially bakery suppliers. Just looking through the frozen section of my bakery supplier's product list, I've got puff pastry, in sheets, in heads, pre cut, croissants in every shape and size and filling available, lord knows how many cheesecakes, cakes, tarts, mini tarts, same for cookie doughs, frozen and fresh muffin batters, fillings, sauces, choc. garnishes, icings, creams, you name it. Caterers use a lot of bread (sandwiches), and what ever pastries/desserts they order usually comes from the bakery that supplies them bread. This is usually augumented with bake-off stuff (see above) and maybe one or two "home made" desserts. The mega bakery in my area has a caterer's price list where they offer a dessert buffet for 50 ppl starting at $75 and going all the way up. For me, the "target audience" to sell pastries and desserts are coffee shops that don't have a convection oven or the space to put one in. I have several such customers, two of which I am pleased to say I've been supplying them for 5 years straight and one of them has had a change of ownership twice now. I focus on pastries that are "dry"--don't need refrigeration, and have a shelf life of 10-14 days, and with at least a 100% mark up. Once a place gets a convection oven though... even a half size one.. I and the regular bakeries are out, and frozen bake-off stuff is in. You have to realize how practical frozen bake-off is. In order for a fresh bakery pastry delivery, you need to order a certain amount, say $100, or have it combined with a daily bread delivery. O.t.o.h., if you have a freezer stuffed full of rtb (ready to bake) apple tarts, or cookies, or whatever, you pull out what you need, bake it off and sell it, and not have the remnents of a "minimum delivery" of fresh-baked goods stare you in the face next day. Plated desserts........ Yes you can deliver indv. tirimisu or creme brulle or mousse or whatever. BUT the cafe/restaurant needs someone to accept the goods, put them away, see to it that there are sauces or garnishes to accompany the dessert, dress the plates, and order more when par levels are low. That same person can make a pyrex dish of tirimisu (@ 9 ports) with supermarket lady fingers and marscapone, can make choc mousse with supermarket bulk chocolate and whipping cream. You just need a kitchen aid and a fridge. Why pay double labour costs?

YES!!!!!!! Now how do we get the cooking mags and the the TV shows to figure this one out? Logic is a hard sell........

Same metal supermarket, but s/s instead of aluminum.

I don't understand the fascination with dutched cocoa..... Waaaay back when, a Dutchman by the name of Van Houten was asked by tradrs tosee if he "could do" something with a few shiploads of bitter cocoa beans. The beans were bitter becasue of bad shippng/handling (a lot of condensation in a cargo hold when the ship goes from warm waters to cold waters...). Van Houten figured out that if the beans were treated with an alkalai solution not only would the bitterness be removed, but the colour would be darker. In the world of chocolate, there are two extremes: The U.S. standard, and the European standard. Basically the US standard demands a minimum of 35% cocoa content for bittersweet and semi sweet chocolates, a whopping 10% cocoa content for sweet chocolate,and 15% cocoa content for milk chocolate. The Euros feel that "chocolate" is just that, and no milk products are allowed in "chocolate". Cocoa content is expressed in percentages of cocoa content, not whimsicall names. Milk chocolate is another story, where it is generally accepted that a minimum of 30% cocoa content is in milk chocolate. Night and day... yet both extremes agree on one item: If the cocoa beans have been treated with alkalai, the packaging must declare this, " either with the words "Dutched cocoa", "alkalized cocoa" or "treated with alkalai". Both the EU and the FDA do regular checks and controls on this. So, O.K. fair enough.. Now, I dare you to find andy decent brand of european chocolate that states "Dutched" or alakalized" on it's ingredient list. The biography of Mr. Hershey is quite interesting, he was raised on a dairy farm, lived, breathed and sold milk, and his first commercial enterprise was the making of milk caramels. His chocolate reflects this....................

Try doing the test on a slip of paper-- the choc. as thin as possible, so you don't have to wait so long.

The "healthy" bit about chocoalte is the antioxidants. There is a tremendous amount of antioxidants in fresh cocoa beans, after fermenting and drying the beans,a percentage are killed off--this is dependant of the fermentation time, which can be as little as a few days or up to two weeks. The longer the fermenttion time, the more flavour can be coaxed out of the beans, the better the bean, the les fermenttion time is needed. With dark chocoalte in the higher percentages (60-99%) there are a decent amount of anitioxidants still present--not as much as fresh fruit, but still a decent amount. Milk chocolate is about a 1/3 mix of cocoa mass, milk powder, and sugar, so any oxidants in the cocoa mass is overwhelmed by the other ingredients. My final anyalysis? Everything in moderation is a pretty good way to go.

Again, this is off-topic, but the Bangledeshies killed weren't child laborers, they were fully grown adults--mostly women, who were paid from 19 cents/hr to 23 cents per hour. And the owners had bullies to beat them silent if they asked for more or ask for safer working conditions. I admit openly that I have bought cheap clothing from some of the CDN stores that contracted with that collapsed building. But fools errand or not, money talks. I won't be buying cheap clothing in the future, and in the future the CDN stores implicated will do due dilligence and inspect the factories before the contract is signed, and thus have some clout in negotiating better working conditions. It's a start, not a fool's errand. Now, back to the hospitality industry....

mmmm. now this might be off-topic here, but we all know about the garment industry building collapsing in Bangledesh. Along with Mal*wart and others, several CDN retailers were using this factory as well. Thoughts?....

A-yup.. For one thing lawyers and accountants have a governing body and benchmarks/qualifications for thier respective professions. For another, Lawyers, accountants, stockbrokers, etc. are in a position to make money for their clients, or spare them significant losses. Servers are in no position to do this.

Now take it to the next step. After carefully measuring your cup of flour, dump into a bowl and weigh it. That figure will never change. no mater how to scoop, or level, or add by the teaspoonful Stop and think about it, you buy your flour by weight--not volume. It makes an awful lot of sense to weigh it out instead of using volume measurements.

No love lost for Yelp. I've had more than one enthusiastic customer tell me they just wrote a great review about my place, only to have it taken down the next day. Reason for this? The reviewer has no Yelp profile, can't be trusted, could be a spy or worse, an employee or agent of the restaurant. And then I get the "regular" Yelper reviewers. One (deleted) wrote a 4 pager on my place complaining on everything from gentrification of the neighborhood, to the colour of the exterior cladding of the building I'm in, to my location. No complaints about the food or service though, the (deleted) couldn't possibly do it. You see, (deleted) made reservations for 2 pm, showed up at 1:40 pm and was politely asked to wait at the coffee bar for a minute while we changed the table--it was obvious that we were bussing and changing the table linens. Well, she was a bit early, and she did request a window table. (Deleted) took off like a bat out of hell and must have stopped at a Stah-bucks to write the review. THAT was four years ago, and the review is still up on the site. Like I said, no love lost for Yelp.

Yes, that's where I got my information from, the culinary workers--that is, the cooks. Sigma, I'll be waiting to hear your research on the respective trades and their salary ranges that are pegged to trade qualifications.