Jenni

If you don't agree with it personally, then why do you follow that religion? Anyway, this is a moot point because most people's moral reasons for eating animals could be said to not be their "personal" opinion anyway - many philoshophers, religious people, general thinkers have written about and/ or discussed the ethics of eating animals. Anyway, that's me done. As I said, this is a topic where it's hard to come to some kind of agreement or compromise.

It's important to keep this in context. AB is talking about accepting hospitality. It's one thing if you tell your mother in law that you can't eat her pot roast because you are a Hindu and can't eat beef. It's quite another thing if you say that you feel that slaughtering helpless animals is immoral. The former is a limitation you have (had) placed on yourself. The latter is a tacit accusation of immorality on behalf of the cook. See, this is exactly the point of view I am rejecting. You imply here that religion is something that someone else forces upon you, and therefore you have to act in a certain way. I don't agree with this at all. Religion is something that you believe in, that you choose to follow. Now there are plenty of examples of people who are religious in name only and do not practice their religion - often this is because they consider their religion a part of their culture, but not something that means a big deal to them personally. So for instance a person might still call themself Hindu even though they don't do puja or have any real belief in any of the theology and philosophy. So that Hindu might actually be more relaxed about or more likely to eat beef and other meat anyway (once again, please note that not all practicing Hindus are vegetarian anyway). On the other hand, a practicing Hindu who very much believes in their religion may not eat meat. But this is a personal choice, a belief that is important to them, not something they are "forced" to do. What I am saying is that many people have non religious beliefs and values that are very important to them, and should be treated with just as much respect. Also, I don't think you have to full out say "slaughtering animals is morally wrong" in order to avoid eating meat whilst travelling. When I'm travelling I am quite capable of ordering food that is suitable for my diet. And if someone offered me non-vegetarian food, I am also quite capable of politely turning it down without causing offense. There are several options: I might just say that I am vegetarian (without mentioning moral implications) or that I am fasting. Both these options are quite accepted in India, and I expect that other Asian countrys including Thailand would also be very familiar with them. If you didn't feel comfortable saying these things, you could just say that you didn't feel that well or that hungry, and either accept a lighter (and vegetarian!) foodstuff instead or offer to take the meal away with you and eat it later (and then you can offer it to a meat eating friend!). Incidentally, I have never had any bad comments from people about my vegetarianism whilst travelling. Some people are politely amused, others are curious. I never push or preach, I just quietly mention that I don't eat meat, and I only do so if it is necessary for me to give an explanation for why I am not eating a certain dish. If there are a variety of dishes on a table and only one of them is suitable for me, I will eat it without complaint and without acting hard done-by. In India, meat eaters will often jovially tell me that a particular meat dish is really good, and that they won't tell anyone if I try it! But this is mostly in jest, and no-one is really expecting me to eat it. Other people tell me about how they are vegetarian on a certain day of the week, or during a certain festival, or that they have always wanted to try and be veggie full time but that they have a weakness for a certain meaty dish! Basically, I have always found that people are a lot more accepting and relaxed about the issue than Bourdain suggests.

Ignoring the crazy talk about Bourdain calling vegetarians lesbian/ gay (I'm pretty sure he was referring to the non-leather shoe brigade! It's fine - I'll acknowledge that there is not a great range of styles in non-leather shoes, at least not in my price range!)... I think this is one of those arguments where it's hard to get to some kind of agreement. People get very highly strung and defensive, and both meat eaters and veggies/vegans engage in some pretty childish name-calling and preaching. I just want to reiterate that I have nothing against meat eaters and I'm not here to argue that everyone should be vegetarian. I just want to say that I think that meat eaters sometimes say pretty dumb and nasty things about vegetarians that are just as ridiculous as a militant vegan giving someone a sermon for eating bacon and eggs. I still reject the claim that vegetarians in the west don't make or eat good food (although it must be said that I myself don't cook very much western food anyway), but I think this is a case of misperception, and also of course it will differ depending on who you know. I obviously know a lot of vegetarians with very good taste! Also, I think perhaps there may be some mixing up with vegetarians and vegans. In my experience, sometimes vegans get a bit carried away with the weird soy meat and dairy analogues, and sometimes (not always) they can be a bit heavy on the "health" factor. Also, there is a whole other deal with raw foodists and fruititarians, and sometimes all of these different dietary choices get lumped together under the category "vegetarian" (which is not always true anyway - I believe some raw foodists are into raw meat!) This is misleading, as there are plenty of people who eat really delicious food sans meat (and sometimes dairy and eggs) but without being into any kind of "health craze". You can deep-fry, douse with butter/cream/etc. (ok, not if your vegan), roast in plenty of fat, fill with sugar, shower with seasonings and so on and so forth, and still be vegetarian! My issue with Bourdain isn't that he doesn't agree with vegetarianism - he's welcome to his opinion as far as I'm concerned. It's just that I raised my eyebrows when I saw the whole "it's ok if it's for religion" thing. I couldn't quite believe that someone in this modern age in which we live would actually make such a statement. As I said before, nowadays there are plenty of people who don't believe in god, or have beliefs that don't fit in any one religious or philosophical tradition, and these people are more than capable of holding powerful personal beliefs and well thought out moral codes. To say that their beliefs are not as important or valid as certain religious beliefs is to dismiss them as meaningless.

Hmm, I would disagree with this. I think there's a misconception that if it doesn't have meat in it, or if it's healthy, then it must taste awful. This is such a close-minded view, it's actually a real shame. There are plenty of vegetarians for whom good tasting food is very important, and they are not interested in eating salad and wheat grass juice at every meal. Luckily, there is an enormous range of different dishes to choose from if you are veggie. I cook mostly Indian food, but there are plenty of other cultures that have delicious dishes that have meat-free dishes, or dishes that can very easily be made meat free. And I am pretty sure I remember reading that Keith Floyd (famous for being rather derisive towards vegetarians) ate a lot of vegetarian food in India and admitted that actually, it was pretty damn tasty and he was starting to feel a little less contemptuous towards those who don't eat meat! I'll take a stab at this. If one believes that God does not want us to eat meat, then Anthony Bourdain will respect that belief (but not to the point of his own adherence). However, if one believes that no one should eat meat based on their own thought processes, then that claim is possibly sanctimonious and is open to peer challenge. Well to me, this is nonsense. Is Bourdain very religious himself? If so, I guess it would make sense that he thinks that religious belief is more important than non-religious belief. However, personally I think it's important to note that there are many people in this world who don't believe in god, or who's beliefs about god don't fit any particular religion perfectly. A lot of people lean more towards a particular philosophy rather than a religion, or even a mixture of philosophy. (Incidentally, Buddhism is technically more of a philosophy than a religion, because contrary to popular belief, the Buddha was and is not a god. However, some lay buddhists do worship him almost as if he was a god, including asking for favours, etc) Are the views of every non religious person in the world completely meaningless? Also, many Hindus do eat meat, and plenty of Buddhists do too. So vegetarianism doesn't necessarily belong to a certain religious tradition. I think that Jainism may well be the only religion where everyone is definitely vegetarian. In addition, there are vegetarians in most religions - Christian, Muslim, Sikh, etc. Some of these people are vegetarian because they believe that their particular religion suggests that vegetarianism is a good thing. The wide variety of different people who are vegetarian suggests that there is a certain philosophical sense to it that often (though not always) goes beyond religion or culture. I'm not saying that everyone should be vegetarian. I may be veggie myself, but quite frankly I couldn't care what other people do! As far as I'm concerned, it's up to each person individually to decide what they put in their body, and I wouldn't dream of forcing another person to follow my beliefs. What annoys me is that way that some people find it acceptable to deride and criticise what I put in my body. Often these people say that they hate vegetarianism because of all those "militant" vegetarians. But they are doing exactly the same thing in the name of meat-eating! Oh well, rant over.

As I mentioned up thread, my main gripe with him in regards to vegetarianism is his inconsistency. He seems to indicate that he wouldn't mind if a vegetarian turned down meat because they were hindu, that would be ok, but not for any other reason. If religious belief is enough for him, why not non-religious (but equally important to the person's life) belief? I don't get it.

You know, I think most foods that aren't supposed to be served hot taste better served at room temperature, rather than chilled. A salad might be refreshingly cool straight out of the fridge, but it doesn't taste as good as when you let it come back to room temperature.

Ok, so I can't imagine they are that supreme quality wise, but I'm going to tell my brother about this as he is an impoverished student, and has recently professed a desire to try lobster!

I agree with the last post - spicy, to me, is not the same as hot. Spicy indicates food with spices in it, but not necessarily very chilli-hot. I think most people can manage spicy food without problems. Chilli-hot food is different. I think it's different for everyone. Repeated exposure, gradually building up the amount of chillis you use and so on will definitely help. However, I think that some people just have different tastes. I was brought up with spices and chillies used in food in copious quantities, and I personally have a high chilli tolerance. If I say I don't find a dish hot, I'm not showing off - it just honestly doesn't seem that hot to me. Some people get really hung up on how high their chilli tolerance is, and try and show off by making dishes as hot as they possibly can and then forcing themselves to eat it in a misguided attempt at bravado. To me, this is stupid. If you don't enjoy really hot food, you don't have to eat it. Use less chilli, mix with yoghurt, or whatever. It doesn't make you tough or brave if you can eat hot food, it just means that you are used to eating different kinds of food from other people.

Evaporated milk is nice in it's own right, but I would never use it instead of good fresh milk. Also, I prefer to make my own - to me the canned stuff tastes weird.

Unsalted butter is important for making ghee - you could not substitute with salted butter. The salted butter that we buy for putting on breads, etc. is barely salted at all. It certainly doesn't taste salty. To me, it tastes more buttery, because there is just enough salt to enhance the natural flavour of the butter. Actually, I think it may just be labelled as 'Butter', and then underneath it says 'with a pinch of salt' or something like that. The unsalted butter is clearly labelled as 'Unsalted Butter' Having said that, I have had some cheaper salted butter before and I found it very salty indeed. Certainly wouldn't buy or use it out of choice.

Thanks for the helpful advice, especially dougal. I have just found out one of the local environmental health agency officers is a childhood friend of my mum, and she has said that she will drop him an email to find out a bit more about what I need to do to get set up. I know that there are quite a few locally made, small scale business products in our local farm shop, so I would think that the local council is used to dealing with this sort of thing. As for the tax man, as a trainee accounts assistant who already has a side business selling my own cookbook, I am well aware of all the bits and pieces I need to do in terms of that! If you guys think of anything more, please post. Also, it would be good to hear from anyone who themselves has made and sold their own products on a small scale.

Here's a tip for anyone having trouble making yoghurt really really thick and able to be rolled into balls - after you have strained the yoghurt so that it is fairly thick, but not yet nearing solid, wrap it well in muslin and put it over a strainer of some kind. Apply a heavy weight to it. This will force out the excess liquid much quicker than just waiting for it to drip away on its own.

Churros are delicious, but I personally don't feel they are that light. If I had them at the end of a meal, I think I would feel stuffed - better to have them as breakfast or a snack! I think the burnt milk ice cream sounds like a better idea, as ice cream tends to be lighter and more refreshing IMO. Is burnt milk a bit like cajeta? To me burnt milk doesn't necessarily sound pleasant, so I assume it is more like caramalised milk? Please correct me if I am wrong.

nikkib, I know there are not many comments on here, but please keep posting. This sort of thread is exactly what I like about egullet!

I live in the UK and I am a cookery writer (not full time!) and general cooking-eating enthusiast. I would like to start doing catering at dinner parties at peoples' houses, and also selling some of my products on a small time basis. I would like to know what regulations I need to be aware of, and any licenses that I will need to get to do this. In terms of the catering, the idea is that people will be able to come to their house and cook a meal for them and their guests. I could do some prep in my own kitchen, but most will probably be done in their's (I will bring pots and pans - a specific set that I keep separate from what I use to do my own cooking at home). I will do all the clean up too! As for the products I want to sell, I make various chutneys and drink syrups that I am interested in selling on a small scale. We have a couple of local shops that sell local products and I would like to go through them. I have most of the logisitics figured out, but I am coming up short on the legal side. Any advice would be much appreciated, even if you can just tell me who I can contact to find out more.

Of course there are people like that, both meat eating and veggie - they want to foist their opinion on you and they'll use any horrible tactic to do so. That's not really my main point. I even understand what Tony is saying - if you travel and you meet someone who has worked hard and lovingly to make a good (meaty) meal, isn't it incredibly rude to turn it down? However, I don't understand why he then tacks on to that, "unless you're Hindu". Since (a) not all hindus are vegetarian and (b) why does being of a religion that mentions being kind to all living beings make it different than just thinking that way on your own? What about buddhism - again, plenty of buddhists are not vegetarian, but some are and the philosophy of buddhism certainly mentions not harming living beings. Some christians also believe in vegetarianism because they believe that God asked them to look after all animals, and that Jesus was vegetarian. And what about non-religious people who just feel strongly about the subject? I don't mind if Tony doesn't think vegetarianism is right or good, I just don't get what point he is trying to make here.

Some of his new book was in The Guardian last Saturday. He seems funny, but also talks a lot of crap. For instance, So what is he saying, it's ok to be vegetarian if you have religious belief behind it (incidentally, many hindus are not vegetarian)? So in other words, he's ok with vegetarians if they really really believe in it. Which sums up a lot of vegetarians, regardless of religion. Seems to me like he's had a few bad experiences with militant veggies/ vegans before, but so what? I've met some real morons who happened to eat meat who were rude, had no taste in good food and generally looked down on everyone who didn't have the same view as them. The difference is, I'm not stupid enough to make big generalisations about all meat eaters because of it.

In two of MJ's books she has recipes for bhapa doi, which means steamed yoghurt. However, as well as steaming it many people cook it in a water bath. I believe that one of MJ's recipes is for bhapa doi which is actually put in a steamer, and the other is cooked in a water bath. It is a bengali dish.

Isn't that a bit unfair? Certainly the lemonade that I grew up with in the UK was the one that my mum learnt from her mum - lemon juice, sugar and water. Definitely real lemon. I know most modern commercial lemonade is largely flavourings, but I assume it's like that all over the world.

I don't have a lot of experience with this sort of thing, but at the pub I used to work at (first as a pot washer and then as a waitress) we split tips between all the staff. It was good for moral, as everyone was earning very little, and I think it encouraged us to work together as a team because everyone wanted the customers to leave a good tip. Mind you, this was just a little English pub so I guess it will be different on a larger scale or where more money is involved. Incidentally, some customers would buy drinks for the staff (soft drinks for consumption straight away or a beer for the end of the night) that they knew. I know that my Dad would often go in when my brother (the pub was a very good source of local employment!) was working a particularly long shift and pay for a beer for him. Maybe you could put a little note at the bottom of the menu letting your customers know they are welcome to do that if they really enjoy their meal and want to thank the kitchen staff?

I have heard that it is harder to set mishti doi than regular dahi because of the sugar in it. You need to make sure it stays nice and warm whilst it is setting. I have made it with success in the UK by keeping the pot in an insulated bag (like a "cool" bag you use for picnics) that was first warmed by leaving an open jar of hot water in it. If you put the mishti doi in whilst it is warm, it stays at that temperature for some time. Mind you, I have never made misthi doi with cream, only with very rich whole milk so your experience may be different.

Coke (preferably Thumbs up brand)in a glass bottle with a pinch of chaat masala and some lime juice.

Personally, I prefer to grind spices as and when I need them. As for commercial curry powder, well I wouldn't touch it because I would rather make my own, and also I cannot imagine adding the same spices to every dish, every time. What you have to remember is that everyone has their own idea about good quality food and how far they will take that idea. Some people on egullet wouldn't dream of using or eating anything but the very best meat or wine, but they would quite happily buy any old curry powder from the store. Others might be fussier about spices. I guess it depends on how important spices are to your cooking - if they don't play a big role or if you don't use them much, then I guess you may not mind using a generic curry powder.

^^^ Thanks for finding that out. Oh well, anyone else got memories of this drink?

As a child, I remember I often used to go into Caribbean shops in Bristol with my Dad, and after a little bit of shopping I would get to pick a drink. My brother and I always had a little bottle of cola made with real cola nuts called Irie Cola. I have been searching for this cola recently and I can't find it. Even stranger, I did a quick google and couldn't find any mention of it except for on these vest tops. Does anyone else remember this drink, and does anyone know where it can be bought? My brother and I are reminiscing and we would really like some!