Katie Meadow

A good laugh can be had by reading Andrew Newman's Advertising column in today's NYT business section. The only encouraging news is that people actually do make their own Chex Party Mix at this time of year, rather than buying the pre-made product--at least if I understand the article right. Beer and Bacon Mancakes and other Dude Food is scary enough, but the last few paragraphs describing the Velveeta Brownies are mind boggling. Apparently adding a large amount of Velveeta to chocolate brownies makes them rich and creamy, and doesn't make them taste like cheese. I'm not surprised that they don't taste like cheese, since Velveeta doesn't actually contain cheese. So it's okay then.

I don't mind most prep work, but if I'm rushed or in a hurry it loses whatever meditative value it might have. I agree with one of the posters above: I find chopping parsley (or cilantro) very annoying. And I am pretty fast, although the only person I can compare myself with is my husband, who treats parsley and cilantro like an art project. In the time it takes me to chop two onions, a carrot and celery, he makes one perfect little mound of parsley. Not that I'm not grateful. Chris, we came up with two solutions to the container problem. One is the cheap solution, in which we purchase things from the same source that uses cup, pint and quart size plastic containers that have the same size lids. The lids get stored separately, and the containers get stacked. For bigger, more substantial containers we had to shell out a little money. But we still found ones that are stackable, and the tops are still stored separately, in a drawer. Saves a lot of space, and means that it doesn't really matter if the tops get washed at the same time, and I don't have to worry about matching odd tops to odd bottoms, etc. I got rid of the idiosyncratic containers and it saved much space and frustration.

There are lots of reasons to make your own and lots of reasons not to. If I can't buy something that meets my taste, I try to make it myself. If it is something I enjoy making, I keep on doing it, perfecting it, etc. For me it is a combination of desire and talent and sometimes price. My husband and I make our own marmalade. I know exactly what I like in a marmalade, and commercial products don't cut it. We've been improving ours for several years, and now there is only one artisan in the area who makes a marmalade as good or better. By good or better, I simply mean the way I like it. We buy seville oranges in quantity during January and February, and make enough for the year. And it costs far less than buying good quality marmalade. I make my own ketchup. It was an accident. I made a ketchup to use to frost a meatloaf and it was so good I decided using Heinz was pointless. Home made ketchup is not cheaper than Heinz, I don't think, but a whole nuther universe. Then there's soup stock. I'm pretty sure it costs more to make my own chicken, ham or beef stock, but it makes me happy and tastes so much better than anything I can buy. And soup is major for me. I make those things because I love eating them and care about them. I don't make my own croissants or my own dijon mustard. Tartine Bakery in SF makes a croissant that's so good it's criminal. And then, croissants are not a staple for me. I'm very happy with Edmond Fallot mustard, and don't have the slightest desire to make an approximation. If I enjoyed making pastry or mustard perhaps it would be a different story, but there's only so much time. I'd rather make soups. As for bread, I simply got lucky. I have a husband who likes to bake bread, and he's pretty good, although his repertoire is limited. There are so many good bakeries around here, so we supplement and get variety that way. We eat a LOT of bread. Given that a good loaf of bread is pretty pricey nowadays, I think we break even there.

Don't know about you, but is anyone else here finding that FC has been lacking something for the past year? Maybe a coincidence, but the recipes seem to have gone a bit dull just about when they glammed up their design, which was a turn for the worse for me; busy photographic backgrounds, an increase in reverse-out white type on dark backgrounds making recipes hard to read, pictures often bigger than necessary wasting space that could be put to better use. There also seems to be an increased dichotomy between simple quick meal cooking and over-the-top fussy. Not a lot in between. Okay, enough whining. I did actually make something quite yummy from #104. Determined to use up leftover turkey gravy and some yukon golds, I bought a celery root and made the garlic-infused mashed potatoes and celery root. This would be an excellent sub for the regular mashed potatoes at Thanksgiving. The recipe calls for whole milk and very little butter, plus a half cup of creme fraiche. I didn't have nearly that much creme fraiche, so instead I whisked in soft chevre. The result was light and fluffy, and uses a very clever technique for keeping the dish hot while the milk and and the rest is being added. I tossed in some snipped chives at the end, since the FC calls for no garnish. Really satisfying.

That's an interesting variation on what I had the other night: I brought coppa and home-made mostarda di cremona to a friend's for an app, and he contributed a soft spreadable goat cheese and his version of toast points, which were squares of rustic white bread grilled on the barbie. The mostarda was made with dried figs, cherries and apricots and fresh pears. Goat cheese, cured pork and tangy fruit makes a super combo.

Crouton, your original post was yesterday morning. While the merits of turning the poor bird into soup vs turning it into compost have been debated, I hope it isn't still in the oven awaiting its fate. Personally I would have just thrown it in a pot if it was only out at room temp for six hours. But that is based on no scientific consideration whatsoever, just a deep desire for turkey soup. Sixty years of living a not very antiseptic life is my basis for optimism. What did you end up doing?

Cheap oxtails? Not around here. But as for something Asian, I find oxtails make a terrific Pho or a simpler version of same. Brown the oxtails in a heavy soup pot and remove. You could use other additional beef and beefbones for richer flavor. Brown onions, a little carrot, a couple of chopped stalks of lemongrass, some fresh ginger, garlic, a couple of star anise. Add water for broth and a splash of fish sauce. After two or three hours at a simmer I strain the broth, and pick off the oxtail meat for the soup. Defat the broth however you prefer. I pour the heated broth over cooked rice noodles or wheat noodles and garnish with a squeeze of lime, green onions, some thin slices of serrano chile, shredded cilantro and thai basil.

I would be very sad to have a martini with no garnish whatsover. I think the oil keeps flavoring the drink long after the twist is dropped in, and I like that lemony taste at the finish. Also it's so pretty, a zesty curlicue floating gently on the sea floor.

Special K, yes I would, but I would just cook the meat until barely done, so it remains tender and juicy. And I do pre-roast the veggies. It never ocurred to me to prebake the crust for a pot pie. Often my pot pie is deep dish with only a top crust.

Yesterday I threw the carcass (with some leftover meat still on it, much to my husband's chagrin) into a pot, roasted some marrow bones and veggies and added that to produce five or six quarts of stock. About a third of it gets frozen. I will probably make two different soups out of the balance. One will be the plainest turkey noodle soup on earth, so the taste is nothin' but turkey. The other will become a bit more dynamic; I'm thinking barley and vegetables. I don't even care much about eating the turkey on Thanksgiving, I just want the carcass to take home. I don't know what it is about the flavor of turkey soup; it makes me high. Using leftover turkey meat in sandwiches or in anything that doesn't cook it further is fine, but here's what I don't get: putting it in pot pie or any dish where the meat continues to cook makes it so tough and dry. How do you deal with that? I don't eat any of the turkey meat in my soups since it cooks for three or four hours and makes its contribution that way. I make ersatz turkey pot pie a couple of weeks after the big day by using chicken and lots of strong-tasting veggies, getting lots extra flavor from a little turkey stock and leftover gravy. That way the whole thing sort of has a turkey flavor but the meat is tender. How do you make turkey pot pie and still have succulent turkey meat in it?

I roast whatever hot green chiles I can get in the fall so I have enough to last me through spring. This includes chiles from New Mexico, if I am lucky enough to get them, or poblanos that are pretty good at the farmers' market. The easiest way is in the broiler, fairly close to the flame. Turn them every few minutes til evenly charred. Then, as above, I stick them in a plastic bag with just a small sprinkle of water, and let them steam for about fifteen minutes. After that, the skins come off easily. I don't usually roast them whole, but roughly chop them and put them in small containers in the freezer. My friend Elaine, who grew up in NM, does the same thing, but she likes to freeze Hatch chiles whole. Mainly I use them for posole verde, for green chile stew with meat and potatoes, cream of green chile soup, in scrambled eggs or as a garnish to spice up mac and cheese. Most all winter and spring the poblanos I can get in the markets here are awfully bland; they seem to be hottest in Sept and October, so I'd rather use the frozen than buy them fresh. I don't have any idea where they come from most of the year, but they don't have much heat.

I make a relatively simple chestnut stuffing and use homemade bread that is a corn-white mix, dried in cubes. The usual suspects such as onion and celery, sometimes chopped fennel, lots of butter get sweated, with Simon and Garfunkle seasoning: parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme (always fresh thyme). I add a little chopped green apple for moisture, but no other extra broth. This gets put in the turkey just before roasting, and it's fairly well sealed in the cavities and behind the legs. I always cook a casserole full of it separately for the vegetarians, adding veg broth to that. No eggs, anywhere. I'm at a loss to see what function they serve.

Someone once suggested that I use apple cider as part or all of the liquid that starts out in the bottom of my roasting pan. This turned out to be a terrible idea. Although the flavor is good, there's a lot of sugar in it, and sugar tends to burn. The bottom of the roasting pan burned, and the basting juices with the added sugar caused the breast to darken far too quickly. I'm sure apple cider is useful for something at Thanksgiving, but maybe not as part of the roasting process.

Once in sixty years I think I ate the real thing: traditional green bean casserole made with nothing but canned products. Where did this thing come from? Is it a conspiracy cooked up by Campbell's and Sunset Magazine? My husband's family luckily doesn't eat this, although they do cling to another tried and truly awful tradition: cranberry mold made with canned cranberries and served with a glacier of sour cream on top. It takes my FIL hours to put it together (yes, he still has the original Sunset recipe from 50 yrs ago) and it is one of the most awesomely bad creations on the planet. And so complicated. I always bring my own alternative.

Hungry C, I pretty much need that hash. How do you make it? It looks to me like you used a mix of sweet and other potatoes, yes? Thanks, KM

The only way I like sweet potatoes combined with sugar is in a straight-ahead sweet potato pie. And I want my pie devoid of pumpkin pie spices. Otherwise I like them simple and savory; roasted with butter and salt is always good. Or mashed with a little parsnip and cream. I've recently taken to using them instead of or in addition to regular potatoes in a sort of bastardized Ethiopian chick pea and vegetable stew. Very good with harissa. Sweet potato fries is one of my favorite treats, and not so easy to find, especially good ones. And I can't imagine saying no to sweet potatoes cooked in bacon fat or sweet potatoes with paprika. Never would I disgrace a sweet potato with a marshmallow. There are no marshmallows at Thanksgiving, ever. They belong in s'mores and rice crispie treats. Not casseroles (and not hot chocolate, either.) Big Mike, I would certainly try your sweet potato onion tart. But Tzimmes with marshmallows? If there's anything that never ocurred to me it would marshmallows for Rosh Hashanah. That means they would be on the plate next to brisket. How's that even possible? Thanks, but no. I'm sure there are several laws against that.

I never heard of Jansson's Temptation, but I looked it up and it sounds fantastic. If it were up to me, and it isn't, I would banish mashed potatoes forever in favor of this casserole. However, my husband's family is very attached to the cold mortar-like substance produced by a teenager hung over from a party the night before. I think good mashed potatoes are hardest to pull off at Thanksgiving than any other time. How do you make barley stuffing? That sounds yummy.

Remember that the cake is supposed to cool down a bit before you make and pour the glaze. And this cake has a relatively long baking time, possibly more than an hour. I don't have any experience refrigerating the batter, but if it is cold when you put it in the oven it may take even longer, no?

My understanding of the stock that is used in gravy is that it is typically not made from roasted parts, but that's because you don't have roasted parts until the turkey is done, in which case it would too late to make a stock for gravy. We usually make the necessary small amount of stock for gravy by using the raw parts such as turkey neck and gizzard, and adding half an onion, some celery tops and simmering for up to two hours, ending up with about 2+ cups of stock. If our stock is too weak we boil it down a bit. That liquid is used to deglaze the pan as the first step in the gravy process. If you happen to have any type of strong turkey stock around before you have cooked the bird--whether from raw parts or roasted--I don't see why you couldn't use that. I do think there is a pretty distinct difference in stock made from raw poultry/bones vs roasted; that's why turkey soup made from the carcass and trimmings of a roasted bird tastes so special. But I can't see going out of my way to achieve roasted stock just for making gravy, since stock is only one ingredient in good gravy and you will be picking up the scrapings and drippings flavors plus the winey meaty flavor of brown sauce if you are including that in your gravy, and the buttery flavor of a roux if you add that for a little body. In a perfect world one might use a beef bouillion made from roasted bones for the brown sauce, but even James Beard used a can. I've never used a combo of roasted and raw turkey to make a stock, but I don't see why you couldn't. Doesn't Julia Child throw in raw and roasted things in the same soup pot?

It never occured to me to base the size of the turkey on the number of people eating it, which I admit is strange. In fairness, I don't always order the turkey myself, sometimes my FIL picks it up at the farm near them without even asking those who cook it what they want. I find anything under 12 lbs to be not worth the stuffing, and anything over 18 lbs to be unmanageable. That said, with the advent of teenagers and increasing numbers of adults who are no longer strict vegetarians, we've been doing turkeys on the big side the past few years. If there are 7-8 turkey eaters, close to an 18 pounder is enough for next day leftovers plus more, so I guess that's 2 lbs per person plus a few more. My main motivation for cooking a turkey (other than the the fact that no one else is willing to do it) is the carcass. So for me, big is better. And if there is more meat on the bird than leftovers can deal with, that just makes better soup. If you really have an overwhelming number of white-meat eaters, I guess it is worth the trade-off to undercook the dark meat (whatever is too rare just goes into the soup pot.) That would be my husband's solution if he owned the world. Unfortunately I love falling-off-the bone dark meat, but I'm in the minority. So, as the turkey approaches millenium, swords are drawn. We agree to let one of my SILs be referee. She shakes the leg and delivers her oracle (it was originally her mother's Nashville recipe, even though she doesn't eat turkey any more.) Every single year, she says it needs another half hour, which is probably based on nothing much, but is to my advantage so I can shut up gracefully.

Sam Sifton's description today in the NYT of the menu at Alinea was pretty funny, especially the dessert. Maybe you can save $100 if you BYOB: bring your own bubblegum. Needless to say, I'm positive that I will never be in a position--or have the inclination--to spend $877 on dinner for two. The last time I had burning leaves, tubes, foam and bubblegum together was probably when my family's old television exploded the October I turned ten. And of course I'm thoroughly unqualified to discuss Alinea, never having been within 1000 miles of it. I'm sure it's delicious.

We aim for around 6 pm. Since we have Thanksgiving on the coast, no one wants to give up all the best daylight hours that could be spent walking or playing on the beach--rain or shine. Plus it's essential to get away from each other and all dogs need to be made very tired. And some parties don't arrive until mid-afternoon. Besides, cooking a turkey and making dressing is a major undertaking, and our turkey is usually at least 17 lbs. Since my husband and I do that part, there's no way I'm gonna get up at 6 am and start cooking. And some of the teenagers who are responsible for side dishes don't climb out of their nests til noon. Yes, most of us nibble lightly or skip lunch, and some of us would like to see the complete disappearance of appetizers. But that will not happen in my in-laws' life time. We typically are forced to watch a slide show between dinner and dessert; mostly pictures we've all see a thousand times. The next day is much more fun: all play, leftover pie for breakfast (when you can really appreciate it) oysters from Hog Island at dinner. Best of all: no TV reception at the beach.

Not generally a huge Martha Stewart fan, but the sweet potato pie recipe from her original Pies and Tarts book is very forgiving, not overly sweet and tastes like, well, sweet potatoes. The recipe can handle slightly less sugar than called for, and works with more potato to same amt of cream and eggs, if you have a deep dish. The converse is true: you can cut back the eggs by one and the cream by 1/4 c and still use the 2 c packed potato. The recipe below reflects some adjustments I have made, and not the original. I tend to underspice this pie, since I really prefer to taste the sweet potato, and not anything that reminds me of pumpkin pie, but you may want to up the spices to your taste. The potatoes can be prepped ahead--I've never noticed any lack of quality. One unbaked pie shell, 9 inch (we use a simple pate brisee) Bake 4 big or 6-7 smallish sweet potatoes until very soft. Scoop out, mash and pack to approx 2 c. 3 large eggs lightly beaten 1/3 c granulated sugar 1/8-1/4 tsp freshly ground nutmeg 1/4 tsp cinnamon 1/4 tsp allspice 1/4 tsp salt 1 tsp grated lemon rind 1.5 c or slightly less light cream or half and half (You could use some heavy cream, and it would be richer) 4 T unsalted butter, melted and cooled Preheat oven to 400 degrees. Put mashed potatoes in a large mixing bowl, set aside. Combine, eggs, sugar, spices, salt lemon rind and cream in a smaller bowl and whisk til combined. Pour this into the potatoes and stir til thoroughly combined. Add the butter, mix well. Pour into the pie crust and bake for 45 to 55 minutes, until filling is set and a knife inserted in the center comes out clean. Let cool before slicing. You may need to protect the edges of the crust from getting too dark, since this is a long cooking time.

What with chestnut bread stuffing, mashed potatoes, baked yams, wild rice, veg sides and salad, a veg main dish that's typically high carb, the absurd consumption of crackers or chips that get eaten with olives and hummus and cheese before dinner, and with a turkey big enough to feed six times the number of people at the table who eat it, we don't bother with bread or rolls at dinner. My nephews bake a sweet pumpkin bread that gets eaten after Thursday. My husband bakes four pan loaves of white/corn bread. Two get used for stuffing, and two get saved for breakfasts and sandwiches for the days after. On Wednesday night I serve as my sister-in-law's sous chef for pies. She preps/is responsible for five pies: apple, pecan, berry and two pumpkin. I make one filling for sweet potato pie, and she makes enough dough for that crust. Mostly its the kids who devour the pumpkin pies. Personally I don't like pumpkin anything, except seeds. No pie, no bread, no muffins, no mousse. Perhaps I would like kabocha? Sweet potato pie--not too sweet and with that vegetal edge--is the bomb. One year I made a mixed sweet potato parsnip pie, based on David Tannis' parsnip pie recipe. My non-baking SIL loved it, my pie-baking SIL found it interesting, my MIL said she liked it but clearly she was being polite, and the kids mostly ignored it once they were told what was in it. I found it sort of good, but not nearly as satisfying as straight sweet potato.

I am a major fan of steel cut oats for breakfast. So far I have not found a successful way of cooking them ahead or overnight. I don't own any kind of timed cooker. The size of the cut has a lot to do with how fast the oats cook. My favorite for both flavor and cooking time is Pinhead steel-cut oats from Scotland in the plaid can. McCann's Irish oats are good, but I think they take longer to cook. So do Bob's Red Mill take longer, despite the fact that the package says 10 minutes! I like my oats to have a bit of a bite, but they shouldn't be a struggle to chew. Pinhead oats take about 20-25 min from the time the oats go into the simmering water, and then another couple of minutes just sitting with the top on and the flame off. McCann's takes 40 to 45 minutes and Bob's takes the same, and both seem to need more water to go the distance. After 35 minutes I thought Bob's were awfully chewy and hard to eat; so far the only Bob's grain I don't love. My second favorite is the bulk steel cut oats from the place we do most of our shopping. Not quite as delicious as Pinhead, but they cook in about the same time and are a lot cheaper. I cook my oats with salt at a simmer, uncovered. For the Pinhead and bulk oats I find that The first 10 or 15 minutes don't require any attention. After that, you do have to be in the kitchen to stir. What works for me is 3 c water to a generous 2/3 c oats to make two portions. If you can busy yourself in the kitchen making coffee or getting other breakfast stuff ready or making bag lunches or whatever for the final half of the cooking time, it isn't really a lot of fussing. I like them toasted too, but I find that the Pinhead oats don't actually need the boost, they are so tasty. Perhaps I should try toasting the bulk oats. I used to use regular long-cooking flaked or rolled oats, and I always toasted those. The toasting really improves the flavor and can be done in bulk ahead, and then the cooking time is very fast, compared to steel-cut oats. Not in the same league, but a lot better than Quaker instant, that's for sure.