peterpumkino

I agree with Charles. Having said that when you talk about 'favourite' I have to take everything into consideration and NOT just the quality of the food. Who you were with, where were you, what kind of atmosphere, service, uniqueness of place etc ad nauseum, is also important, IMHO! So, one of my favourite places to go is a restaurant called Maison de Fillippo in Entreves (+39 (165) 869797 - closed Tuesdays - MUST book in season) just outside Courmayer. Why? Because, in addition to ribbing people on Egullet, I love skiing and this is the ultimate skiing restaurant. Packed with skiers (many are French coming through the Mt Blanc tunnel), everyone's partying and lots and lots and lots of mountain food. The atmosphere has to be seen (and heard) to believe. The food is definitely NOT Michelin but with 32 different antipasti coming to your table, THEN the pasta choice, THEN the main dish, THEN the dolci THEN La fruttaTHEN the Coppa dei Amici (a wooden cup with 4 or 6 spouts filled with a very alcoholic coffee liqueur that everyone shares, each with their own spout, hence the name cup of friends) you have to pace yourself well. This is the complete opposite of nouvelle cuisine! As I say it is NOT the best (for me there's no such thing) but it's certainly memorable. Craig if you live near Varese you should drive up for a night it's about 2 1/2 hours for you.

You really are the proverbial Ugly American aren''t you? I suppose you demand the air-conditioning at EXACTLY 76 degrees at all times (even when outside!).

Thanks Craig, but you are right, I don't need any help. However, time and time and time again whenever you say anything mildly critical you get the Americans bleating company lin: "I wonder how we became the richest, most powerful and most successful nation on earth populated with such idiots?" This argument can go on and on and I do not want to contribute to it. All I can say was Craig was 100% correct when he said, "I think the comment refers to the fact that American tourists carry such ecomomic clout that even hotels in Rome change their menus to cater to them - not because they are stupid but because they have money". Do you guys have such massive inferiority complexes that you have to think this way?

While there is little violent crime in Italy - many cars are, shall we say, borrowed permanently. Actually there's a whole lot less violent crime in Italy than there is in the US. WHich would you have - your car "borrowed" or your face blown off. I know which I would rather have. Admittedly I wouldn't have to wait 3 minutes for my drinks in the States. And, just for the record, I've lived in Italy off and on for five years and NEVER (touch wood) had my car borrowed. Talking about strange laws, there are some counties in the US where sodomy, cunnilingus etc are illegal. Boy you American must have a terrible time

So what? It's a very small price to pay for wonderful drinks (Averna, Grappa, Braulio, Cynar, Vechia Romagna, Aperol, Negroni - ever had these drinks?) the best coffee (ristretto) unbelievably fresh and tasty Panini. However I do hear service is quicker at Burger King so maybe you should just eat there. Here's a good one for you to add to your 'hate list' of everything Italian. When you are in a bar or a restaurant in Italy and you pay the bill you MUST take the bill and KEEP IT WITH YOU for about 30 yards outside the restaurant/bar otherwise they will get fined and SO WILL YOU! (it's something to do with tax evasion!). Again, so what?

This would be an accurate, if massive, understatement. For anyone who's interested, a most wonderful volume on the Italian people is The Italians by Luigi Barzini. I agree wholeheartedly - but it's a VERY old book (I think it dates back to 1964) and things were very different in Italy then (I know, I was there then, well 1966).

That is exactly what it is all about Craig. ps and your comment that you have to be very careful in Venice as it is a city where you can get Spaghetti and meatballs is so accurate (although in the Holiday Inn in Rome they had the decorum to refer to it as 'Spaghetti alla Perla" - when I asked what it was, thinking it was some exotic dish, oysters? Caviar?, he told me that as they had so many Americans they had to put it on the menu as they assumed that that dish was Real Italian and would complain if the hotel didn't offer it - the waiiter said, very sheepishly.).

Why? In this context it was foolish. The comparison has nothing to do with the experience of Italian food or Italian competence. Miss Nina, if you actually read Craig's comment he was NOT comparing eating in America to eating in Italy. He was only making the completely accurate statement that Italians hate the food in the States and, in my experience, hate the 'Italian' food served in the States even more. This is also my observation and I think Craig's point is that Mr Plotnicki hates Italian food in Italy and the Italians hate the Italian food as cooked in the US even more. This shows the massive gap between the parties and, as I've always said, it is a matter of personal opinion, just a matter of personal opinion.

You must be the only person that I know that has never had a delay on a train in France. I've had a lot and also a few train strikes where I have been stranded on a Friday night in Paris. I suspect you live in a different World than anyody else. BTW apart from the superfast trains (TGV, ICE, Eurostar, Cisalpino etc) ALL trains (and I do mean ALL - including German, French, Italian, Swiss etc etc) change locomotives at all borders in central Europe and have done since time immorial. I'm sorry but I thought it was I who knew nothing.

Is that right? Ever heard of SNCF?

I assume your comment about France is a joke as nobody can be THAT dim. Well Stevie-boy, when I lived on Lake Como I was very close to the Swiss Frontier at Chiasso. The frontier is on a small road going through town and you can sit in Chiasso (Switzerland) and have a conversation with somebody in Ponte Chiasso (Italy). It's THAT close and you know something Stevie-boy, the pasta was much better one minute walk away in Ponte Chiasso than in Chiasso. So you're right in a way - you've just got your direction wrong.

Stevie-boy, NOW will you admit it's a matter of opinion and NOT fact.

Well it all depends on what the compromises are doesn't it? Some compromises are acceptable and others aren't. In general, the ones I have reported on, I do not find acceptable. Too maddening for me. I cannot live in a place where the Post Office doesn't have stamps. It's just too easy to create a system to insure you never run out of them. I need to live in a place like Germany where things work properly. Life is too short to waste that much time getting simple things done. It's hard enough getting the hard things done. But on the good side of the ledger, my friend and I decided that Italy has better salumi etc. then France does. I have a question for you (or anyone else for that matter.) In Italy when you go into a cafe for a drink, you have to pay first and then give the counterman your little ticket when you order. Why that custom? Is the entire country a bunch of serial latte macchiato thieves? Second question. Why when it is crowded three deep at the counter does the guy who is in the third row back feel that he is entitled to reach over everyone else and yell out his order to the counterman as if nobody else was there? True, but my love for Italian food and lifestyle supercedes my desire for my life to be devoid of any frustration. Why not live in Switzerland then? The trains run on time (and I'm sure the Post Office have stamps). And, Stevie-boy, I lived in Munich from 1997-2000 and I couldn't wait for the weekend where I would drive to Italy live a Real Life and get away from a programmed society. I liked the Germans (sort of) but I much prefer the lifestyle of the Italians and by the number of people clamouring to go there I am certainly not alone (oh, I forgot, they are probably just sun-seekers and don't care where they go, right?).

Go by 30 min local train from Lisboa to Cascais (regular and inexpensive). It's a lovely town (previous home to many deposed Monarchs) and there is some great sea food restaurants (but quite expensive). Or take the ferry across the Tagus and there are many local seafood restaurants on the sea front.

There you go again Stevie-boy. It is NOT 'as it is', it is merely his opinion and I repect that. ps I love Italian bread (as baked in Italy) - it's a matter of opinion. I'm sure I could find sixty million Italians who agree with me.

sp says: Here is something that happened when we were there'....... etc etc etc ad nauseum. Yes, it's a good story but so what? Having lived in Italy I could tell you a thousand similar stories (one of the funniest being the Post Office in Como not having any stamps - I did say 'when I am in Mcdonalds I expect hamburgers and not stamps but when I'm in the Post Officice I DO expect stamps! Everyone laughed and agreed but couldn't really understand what the fuss was all about - something to do with the 'courtyard mentatility' they have which I've mentioned on other threads). Being in the travel business I can tell you thousands of similar stories at airports throughout the world (yes, many set in your beloved Paris and many, many in America). So what? I would rather give up the stamps in the Post Office for truly excellent food anytime. Life's a compromise Stevie - don't you know that?

Of course you find it interesting. He knows what he's talking about and you don't. Eh, Stevey, he's a she. No, HE's not. FrancescO I'm sorry if I offended you Francesco. It was Steve that wrote FranciscA.

Please don't Craig - especially if you have high blood pressure. It's not worth it. And it's boring. And, who cares if the country's a mess, but at least it's a great mess with wonderful food. (incidentally I loved the comment you made: 'If you think you are unhappy eating in Italy you should hear what Italians think about eating in the United States' - spot on).

Of course you find it interesting. He knows what he's talking about and you don't. Eh, Stevey, he's a she.

Francesca: very, very interesting comments. Craig Camp: It's obvious you live in Italy as you really do understand the topic. Thanks for your comments. BTW where DO you live? I used to live in Sala Comacina directly opposite the Isola restaurant. Joe H: a remarkable insight to Italian cuisine. Thanks, and I agree obviously.

This comment puts you in a totally different category (I'll leave you to guess the category) and it certainly goes along with your description of pasta as being ubiquitious! Steve, your wife is soooooo correct, go to Spain and do not ever return to Italy, please.

Yes, I drink Zinfandel, the coca cola of wine. Zinfandel doesnt deserve that moniker, its a serious varietal. WHITE Zinfandel however, like the kind Beringer makes, definitely deserves that title. QUOTE (Charles Smith @ Jan 21 2003, 10:31 AM) Peter- How do you define great? Good is one thing, great is a lot more. Who are the zinfandel producers that consistently produce great wines? Where are the new zinfandel regions where they are planting zins b/c of what a great varietal it is? Good wines are wines you like and enjoy- Great wines need to have something more and great varietals need to have a number of characteristics. Cheers, Charles Peter - what about this? First of all I quoted your Fearless Leader's comment listed below. Second of all, yes, what is great? You tell me, you seem to have all the answers. Thirdly I have had some great Zinfandel (Foppiano 1973 for starters). And lastly, it's all a matter of opinion, isn't it. I think a lot of people on this site have a lot of free time and read the 'guides' in bed until the witching hour and without that they are lost. Even when I go on my 'Real Italian' rants I accept wholeheartedly that I love food as cooked in Italy whilst others prefer Italian food as cooked in England or New York or wherever. I never say they are wrong - it's all a matter of personal opinion which is what I think Egullet is all about - correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure you will).

As I mentioned I am off to Bilbao/San Sebastian on Feb 06 and all the suggestions have been very helpful so a big Thank You to everybody (you know who you are!). One last question: when I was in Strasbourg in November I discovered a fabulous restaurant that specialised in cheese. They had a selection of well over 100 but their 'cheese plate' had a selection of twenty (albeit small) cheeses and was really memorable. As I love cheese is there a similar restaurant in the Bilbao/San Sebastian/Biarritz area?

I think that tomatoes and wine are a bit of a non-starter. Must be the the acid I think. I have no problem eating wine with pizza, but beer is more refreshing, even when the pizza has no tomato base (which is what I mostly choose). Actually an Italian friend who lives just outside of Milano on being pressed admitted that it could be a culural reason Italians drink beer and not wine with pizza. To wit, Italians do not generally have the opportunity to drink beer with meals (remember the Italians are very set in their ways) and this is just an excuse to drink beer rather than wine! It's a theory. Of course if he's right it would show up some of the egulleters as pretentious twats and that would never do.

I cartainly agree with that Nina. I have had some really unbelievable pizzas but in Italy.