peterpumkino

Adam, I hope you read Britcook's response. There is absolutely nothing wrong in not liking 'Italian food as cooked in Italy'. There's nothing wrong in absolutely adoring The Olive Garden either. To each their own and that's what makes the World go around so there's absolutely no need to be offensive (and, in this case, totally wrong IMHO).

Kikijuro, I am very impressed, people actually read the posts! I honestly thought that that was not the case. I apologize and will cease and desist (although I have lots of other stories!). Regards Your boring friend.

Circeplum, Where was your Italian mama born?

Sorry, but if you ate badly in Venezia you went to the wrong restaurants, period. Regarding my spelling - have you seen my English? I don't now about you but I have a lot of work on and do not have time to proof read everything I send out. One thing, I have eaten some terrible meals in Venezia, Firenze and Roma but I only have ever had myself to blame.

Well it's not the 'regional' aspect. Too many people on this site are obsessed by this for some reason (maybe it's a big thing in New York!). I've eaten in most regions of Italy (including Elba, Sardinia and Sicilia) and, whilst there are definitely great local specialities, I have found that, on the whole, the food to be universally great and have the same 'balance'. (The one exception would be an alpine type of spot where they serve 'mountain food' - the fact that Polenta is so popular in London and New York tickles the hell out of the Italians as Polenta is, usually, only served in rustic places and is certainly NOT on the menu in 'ristorante rafinatte' - alright, I know I'll get Tom, Dick and Harry telling me that they disagree and had Polenta last week in a restaurant in Venice. I'm sure they did!). No, I think that cooking in Italy is not 'art' as it would be in a Michelin in France. The priority is very fresh ingredients and lots of hearty food cooked well. I think this is the reason that most Italians don't like the food in France (yet the same people like the food in London!). In Italy if you want a really good Sunday lunch you drive out-of-town to a wonderful restaurant 'alla buona' (lit. 'to the good' meaning local i.e. not fancy) and have a wonderful home-style meal. This goes for everybody in Italy including the very rich and the poor as these meals are not expensive (it's quite common to go to one of these Trattorias or Osterias 'nella campagna' and see Ferraris or Mercedes' together with the cheapest Fiats parked outside). When they go to France, instead of going to Michelin-type restaurants, they do the same as they would in Italy and fall flat on their faces!

Maybe he doesn't say anything because he doesn't speak English?

Wow, Mathew. You really are a masochist aren't you. Either that or stupidly brave! First of all I rarely eat at Michelin restaurants in Italy. The last time was at one of the few 3-stars (Il Vecchio Ponte at Abbietegrasso) and, surprise, surprise, it's French! Now, I do admit that the French do French better than the Italians! Secondly you need go no further than the airport self-service no less for good food. I was there recently with my Floridian daughter and we ordered Fritto Misto. They had a special area for that and the chef there had just finished frying the lastest batch, he distributed the Misto and then started on ours. Amazingly there was quite a bit on the bottom which he through out! My daughter said she would have had that! But the chef said, no, it has to be very fresh (i.e. cooked and served within five minutes). What other airport self-service can boast that kind of attention to detail? I truly wonder where you ate Mathew. OK the Michelin was a waste of time as were the tourist restaurants and, possibly, Il Convivio, but what about the 'little trattorias with no English menu' - where were they, Croydon? I am trying really hard not to be rude or 'superior' but I really find it amazing what you've reported. Something is very wrong somewhere. Maybe you just don't like 'Italian food as cooked in Italy' and that's OK but I would definitely not use the word 'average' to describe food in Italy!

You mean bland?

Point taken, but what about the owner?!!!

For once I agree with Tony and Steve's answer was perfect. FYI Tony, you are correct - I do agree that it's a 'so what?' situation. It is just that I like Italian food as it is served in Italy and not "Modern London Italian" - that is my preference and by damn I'll defend my right to express it . Regarding your use of the big word 'unidentified' Macrosan - I will explain for the umpteenth time: The balance of the meal that you get on Italy is unique and you will not get this balance in London as punters expect a main dish with all the trimmings as that is how we eat in the UK!! Sometimes non-italians are a bit dissapppinted with the Italian main dishes as they are quite sparse but it is precisely this balance that I like. In regards to 'regions' I do not specify regions as it really does not matter, ergo 'unidentified' (why identify a region when it's irrelevant?). Whereever you are in Italy the balance of the food is the same, the freshness of the ingredients are the same and the pasta is always al dente - end of story (I hope). If we want me to go in greater detail I will - but I assume you now understand.

StephenT, if anything deserved a 'well said' it is this reply. First of all it clears up the misconception once and for all that Pizza is Italian and NOT from NYC (BTW did you know that there are many Pizzaria's in Naples that do not serve wine at all! Italians, on the whole, prefer to drink beer with pizza and think we're crazy ordering wine). Secondly you make some serious points BUT you are talking about New York CIty and, contrary to what New Yorkers believe, NYC is NOT America and I can take you to areas where 'chablis' is the norm and the Cheddar sucks! Like you said you CAN get good steaks in Europe but it's not asy and your comments that a). we do not hang the steaks properly and b). the average steak should be at least 15 ounce to cook properly is right on (in fact, Berne's Steak House in Tampa strongly recommends that two of you have the same steak and order it as one as the steak will be cooked better in one piece. Finally I agree about Mathew. There are some appalling restaurants in Rome (as I have said before, if you see the menu in English run a mile, if you it's also in Japanese run the 4-minute mile) but there are a million truly memorable restaurants there. Do your research Mathew and get away from the tourist restaurants.

I do not agree that it is 'well said'. As I have maintained frequently I love the Italian food 'as it's served in Italy'. This has nothing to do with 'authenticity' (what is that anyway?) just that their way of cooking and preparing and serving the meal (not to mention the all-important 'balance') is what I personally like, other peole can eat at the Olive Garden and have a lovely meal and, in a way, I'm a little jealous as the OG is MUCH cheaper!! I hope I've exhausted this point.

Yes, quite a few times but I must be honest and say that I wasn't too impressed. I would be very interested in your opinion when you go. The Woolpack is quite good and reasonable and, for pub food, the dessert's are really magic! Let me know what you think of Riva as it seems to breed differences of opinion. I speak Italian better than English (which is not great considering I'm a Brit!) so maybe it's a time for Superlinguist! (I'm not actually joking too much as it's amazing how the doors open when you speak the lingo - and you get better food IMHO). Does anyone know of Dim Sum in my area?????

SPQR do you have the name of the restaurant in Venice as this city is a minefield for gourmets as there are so many very bad tourist restaurants you have to be very careful. However if you find a good one then it is a dream.

Samantha, you can 'seriously disagree with you' all you want but IMHO, generally speaking (note the word 'generally') steaks are not nearly as good in Europe (including France) as the US. I have had really lousy steaks in La Belle France saved only by a great sauce. It's difficult (although by no means impossible) to get a truly bad steak in the States. Having said that my 'generally' allows for one of the nicest dishes I have had in the UK for a long time and that was at Le Poussin (New Forect) two weeks ago where I had a 'trio' of meats and one of them was the most delicious and tender steaks I have ever had - so generally steaks are better in the States - but not always. On the very sad demise of the Aberdeen Steak House chain it did remind me of a story. I worked in Germany for a while and my friends there stated that the food was awful in London. Of course any attempt to refute this was met by a guffaw and underlying talk of 'chauvenism'. I then asked where they had eaten and they replied, yes, the Aberdeen Angus Steak House! I have NEVER been to one and I do not know anyone who has. They went back to London for a meeting and returned convinced that they were even more right about the food in London. I again asked them where they had eaten and they said a terrible Italian restaurant in Leicester Square. I will not even insult anyone's intelligence regarding my answer but they were two blocks away from some of the best Chinese Food in the World - and the Chinese food in Germany is awful (I am talking generally - please do not send me a response Samantha saying that you seriously disagree with me as you found a great Chinese down a side street in Heidelberg!).

Very good question...... Do you really have three weeks free?

Go ahead and mock the afflicted! Truth is I very rarely eat in restaurants where there are Americans or for that matter any non-Italians, simply because I go to areas that tourists do not go (that soiunds pretensious doesn't it? It's not intentional it just works out that way).

This should be a very interesting topic as I live in Guildford and I have found the area good for breakfasts and pub food but definitely lacking in top restaurants (hopeless for Italian) - however so far you've only recommended Kew and Barnes which is nowhere near my area and doesn't really answer all the questions. One thing. is Riva really as good as you say?? The fact AA Gill like it is a plus as he does like 'real' Italian food (see my comments on the topic that mentions me today!).

Wow! Where do I sign up? Seriously, to put things in perspective, the food as it is served in Italy (and that is not just the ingredients, it's the mode of cooking, the freshness and availability of the ingredients and, possibily the most overlooked, and most important, of all, the actual balance of a true Italian meal - i.e. light pasta entree followed by a suitably light main course with very few 'contorni') is what I like. I am not saying that "Italian" (as most people outside of Italy know it) should be outlawed or anyone that likes it is a phillistine. I am merely saying that I, personally, like the food as it is served in Italy, basta, finito. Now it seems that the Italians are fighting back as they are fed up with their cuisine getting, what they see as a bad rap, outside of Italy. A good analogy is this: in America (in an average restaurant) the house wine is Red, Rose or Chablis. Obviously the 'chablis' is white (often Gallo and invariably disgusting). My question is simple, don't you think the good people of the Chablis region in France are a little pissed off at the name of their premium wine being used in the U.S. as the cheapest table wine around? When your average American goes on holiday in France he, naturally, refrains from ordering a wine (Chablis) that he has found, through experience, is terrible? When, of course, it's not. Now please, do not spam me with your opinon. I am not referring to anyone on this site. I am referring to your average American and by 'average' I mean people that go to the Olive Garden or to Ponderosa etc etc. As I said at the beginning - where do I sign up PS The article mentions Pizza and Mozzarella. I have two things to say: first I have been told, in no uncertain terms, that the true Pizza was invented in New York?!!!! And secondly, the article asks what is wrong with Mozzarella made in Holland for example and my answer is simple: Cheddar made in England is fabulous, made in the US it's plastic. Steaks cooked inthe States are wonderful and very juicy, steaks in Europe are invariably tough, small and tasteless, Bratwurst in Germany are plump and very tasty, elsewhere they are very bland - need I go on??

I second this idea. I aways maintain that you can go anywhere in Italy and get a great meal regardless until my friends came back bitching about Firenze, Venice and Rome. Problem is, of course, there are two Italian cuisines. One for Italians and one for everybody else and the Italian's do believe (and they are usually right!) that 'everybody else' knows nothing about Italian food (except for Spaghetti and Meat Balls!) therefore it doesn't matter what slop is served. I don't really think it's a rip-off as such, I honestly feel that the Italians just do not consider 'anybody else' as knowledgable and therefore important. So moral of the tail? Do not take any recommendations from anyone but Italians talking to Italians (and certainly not US magazines, no matter how glossy). Ergo John's suggestion, that way you are sure to go where Italians eat and you will get Italian food. Be warned though that Italian food is regional and bears little resemblance to what is called 'Italian food' in New York or London. Peter PS If the menu is in English prepare to run a mile, it it's in Japanese as well then do the four-minute mile!

HA!!!!! La Tupina, I was there some time ago and it was fabulous BUT it gets crowded so you MUST make a reservation.

Alex who? And Portnoy's what?

Sorry Simon it's on the a hard couple of days in the smoke thread (IMHO - or is that a fact?).

Well Tony, it was you who said that AA Gill is a 'putz' and when I replied that that was your opinion your EXACT words were 'No it's not my opinion, it's a fact'. Get out of that one. Very funny Simon, did you read my comments about AA Gill?

When I first returned from Florida my friends took me to 'Yates Wine Lodge' and I was really impressed expecting the best Bordeaux's etc. Boy, was I wrong! It was absolutely dreadful. Now, re Witherspoon's, I agree entirely that this place serves cardboard, tasteless food BUT my fiances parents rave about it (and they used to go to The Ivy in the '40's!) so it goes to show that someone likes these places however that's theiropinion and they are entitled to it (however Tony would disagree as his 'opinion' is always fact!). Thai Vegetarian Schnitzel - wow!