tommy

foodtutor, in your experience, has the theft of peppermills been an issue moreso than the theft of other items? it seems to be standard procedure to clear salt and pepper shakers from the table before dessert. surely this cuts down on the amount of theft, if theft is even a huge issue.

what do you know about his mom, their relationship, and her willingness in that venture? or are those comments again based on supposition.

katie, it was a TV show. i'd be interested in hearing the opinions of the folks who worked with rocco at UP for all of those years, rather than the opinions of those who watched the TV show for those 2 seasons. i really can't get over what i perceive as misguided hatred of a man who was, by many accounts, very important to the NYC dining scene, by people who likely know little more about him than his business ventures and TV show. granted, we can all sit here and say that all of the peripherals effected UP, but i think that's just conjecture. unless someone here is truly in the know. anyone? didn't think so.

one of the best in the area. perhaps i'll cut and paste all of my recommendations from the other thread. or not.

i'm looking forward to rocco rising from the ashes of the public stoning and opening a place that blows the pants off of the people...who actually have the opportunity to eat there. :rollseyes: i'm confident that it will happen, given my experiences, and those of other diners whose opinions i respect, at UP over the last 8 or so years. yes, i look forward to it indeed.

personal preferences and definitions aside, for some great recs on non-slider style burgers i'd check out the thread that rosie posted.

so the steakhouses in northern california all pepper your steak perfectly. must be nice! i tend to eat at a lot of high-end restaurants. this might be evident in some of my posts, although i don't post much anymore. so i don't know if that explains our difference of opinion. here in NYC, you see the peppermill at places in-between the Olive Garden and Jean Georges. and there are moer than a few of those in my experience. i think, rather, that our difference of opinion stems from my reluctance to accept blanket statements and absolutes, especially those associated with taste. i like my food perfectly seasoned as well. but that's just not practical in every dining experience. i offer a steakhouse as an example of an exception, lest anyone think i'm just making stuff up to hear myself type.

we might be getting into a different discussion here. i rarely pepper, and just about never salt, food at a high-end restaurant.

absolutely. the concept that there's a "correct" amount of pepper that should go on a steak strikes me as absurd and naive. among other things.

i think the idea that it would only slow things down a bit is debatable. the system, as it is set up now, likely relies on a triggering event. that triggering event is the food coming out to the table (usually by brought by a runner). at this point, it's clear to the staff handling the table that the food is there, wine glasses should be checked, and pepper/cheese should be offered. to build a lag in to the process, one which accounts for the various amounts of time that people might take to start tasting their food, would be very difficult in my eyes, and take up more resources (considering time/personnel) than a dining room likely has. not to mention all of the people who would sit there and wait for the pepper to arrive before eating. they'd be cursing the staff and complaining about them on egullet. so, i think it's a good idea to present the pepper with the food. you can always wave him off and then call him back (this, i think, would be the exception). personally, i often bring my own peppermill, so i don't have these dlillemmas.

i'll keep score. so that's one person with one meal out of presumably thousands of meals. anyone else?

i think there are actually *two* ring-shaped places on a chicken. i wonder which tastes better?

they weren't adjustable? i suppose the next question might be: didn't you see the pepper and make that determination before continuing to grind and subsequently destroying your salad?

regarding the "how much" issue before tasting, i think, for the most part, i can tell by sight. this comes from experience with cooking, and is probably based on a few assumptions about the cook at the restaurant in question. namely, is he/she using the same coarseness of pepper that i'd use...which is what my eye would pick up and what my brain would make the determination on. quite frankly i only ask for pepper on things like steak, burgers, some salads, and some pastas. other than that i assume, usually correctly, that the kitchen has done a fine job seasoning. with those foods in particular, though, i think of extra pepper as more of a condiment of sorts. i'd be curious as to what percentage of diners would claim that they've had a notable number of dishes ruined by too much pepper.

i find pepper very much different than say salt, cheese, or cinnamon for that matter in that respect. in a perfect world, i suppose, i'd have 3 bites of whatever it is i'm eating, make the determination if i require more black pepper, snap my fingers and have a servant run over to crack it for me. however, the present system seems to work pretty well in my experience, although i usually take contol of the mill myself, if appropriate. even better is a pepper grinder on my table (+2 points to every restaurant with this...and don't go giving me that lame excuse of how it costs so much because people steal them. please. it's a cost of doing business). even better than that is a pepper grinder on my table and a dish of kosher salt next to it.

most diners in NJ are open 24-7. i always thought that diner(s?) on 10th ave were open 24-7. i don't know of many other diners in manhattan, other than the Comfort Diner, which is probably not open 24-7.

i didn't realize they had a pickle bar (although i've never eaten in the restaurant). i do know they have several types of pickles, with different levels of pickling. i prefer half-sours myself.

that slogon remains up on a sign at Katz's, IINM. made famous to this generation by The Jerky Boys back in the early 90's. that was perhaps my first introduction to what Katz's was. and how old it was. picture here.

the kosher nosh website takes one click to get to the menu. i counted 3 on the noah's ark site, and that loaded a pdf. oddly, the noah's ark website seems to play the sound of an airplane or something. although that's better than the kosher nosh music, which also includes New York, New York.

any thoughts on the Noah's Ark website?

i disagree.

it's generally a sweet dressing. i use palm sugar. a touch of fish sauce. in fact, from what i've experienced in thai restaurants, it's not much unlike peanut dipping sauce for satay. i get the feeling it's not eaten in thailand, but i could be wrong.

i'd put red curry paste in the peanut dressing instead of cayenne. but that's just me.

http://www.koshernosh.com in glen rock.

considering all reports, this will probably become a destination spot.