kai-m

Hmmm, the "Feuerrädchen" in the Textorstrasse used to be very good - but not anymore since the owners changed af few weeks back... So I would reccomend the "Kanonensteppel", also in Textorstrasse: Good local food like "green sauce" (a delicous *cold*, thick sauce, made of seven different fresh herbs, yoghurt and sour cream; served with potatoes and hardboiled eggs or warm slices of boiled beef), "Handkäs" or "Schneegestöber" (mashed camembert cheese with some spices and onions mixed in).

Well, don't be fooled, because this doesn't tell you *anything*... In fact, germany has more michelin-2*&3*-restaurants than any other european country besides france...not that the michelin is the "holy grail", but, well, you get the picture... Go to "Fischers Fritz" and you will taste what I'm talking about... best kai

Wow, what a rave review... ...and what a surprise, because Iam from frankfurt and find "Erno's Bistro" to be the least of the local 1-michelin-star-restaurants: It is very, very expensive (with close to 40 euros per main course it is as pricy as the very best german 3*-places!!) and servers just "good" french bistro fare, IMHO. We have been there just twice with a group of 5 and all agreed that we wouldn't go again...Some dishes where of downright offensive quality...(the less than stellar review in the 2006 millau is more than justified). I much prefer the "Tigerpalast", "Villa Merton" and the unbeatable 2* "Amador" in Langen. For a litte less upscale places I would reccomend the "Cyrano", even though the cooking is admittedly inconsistent.

Sorry, but I think the idea that it is "impossible" to create a 3*-restaurant/experience outside of france is just plain silly. Cannot comment abou the US, but I guess some of you have traveled enough around europe to know that by now many of the most satisfying 3*-experiences are to be had *outside* of france... Best kai

Yes, that is right, molto e. But then Paris (along with the Cote d'Azur) is considered just, how shall I put it, "different" when it comes to pricing. But well, so is Vegas, I guess. It is also just a personal thing that I refuse to pay more than 150,- € (ca. 180,-$ incl. tax) for a menu (drinks not included, of course). But that would be a different topic... Best kai

I have only had dinner at the Atelier and found the service (and food) pretty good. But it seems very clear, that the service and treatment you get at the Mansion is, well, very uneven, to say the least - or how come one diner gets in 'n out within a rushed 2 hours while the other sits for more than 3. Great for molto e to have had such a great night there, based on his approach, personality or whatever. I mean that, really. But given their -in my opinion- obscene prices*, great service and a nice, long dinner experience is the least even the "average" diner should be able to expect... *(I mean: compare it to what you pay at spains El Bulli, englands The Fat Duck, germanys Dieter Müller or frances L'Arnsbourg or Buerehiesel - in other words: the best restaurants in their respectice countries...)

@molto e: Just curious, but obviously you were treated in some very special way at the MANSION - or how come you could take so many detailed pictures in the kitchen? Could that "special treatment" be the reason your experience is so different from all the disappointed reports in this thread? (How long did the dinner take? More than 2 hours?). Anyway: thanks for sharing!

I truly hope to get the chance to give it another try. best kai

Well, tsquare, actually I did, on my 2 other nights - guided by a native portugese... ...don't ask... best kai PS: Oh, and no need to worry about my travelling and eating habits, really...

Well, I'm back. Only made it to "Terreiro do Paço" - and wish I hadn't... The restaurant looks kinda nice, but it was only 1/4 full on a friday night. Wanna know why? Well: the 4 (smallish) "gambas from the oven with passion fruit reduction, salad and sweet-potato chips" I had as a starter were hopelessly overcooked, resulting in a not-so-delicate rubber-like texture. The passion fruit reduction was really extremely reduced - to 4 drops that is...Main "sauce" was an aioli that was so oversalted that it was simply inedible. The mixed side-salad, on the other hand, did't have any dressing on it whatsoever...the "sweet-potato chips" were crunchy but had a tad of an "old-fat" odeur to them... Main course was codfish with foam of codfish tongue, spinach-sauce and some sort of potato-croquettes with almond pieces on them. Again, the fish was totally overcooked and therefor dry. The -intersting- foam had to be eaten in a hurry within the first 10 seconds after arrival of the dish, since it melted very quickly, beeing placed on the hot spinach-sauce - that sauce was okay, even though it was sort of musty (but hat may be a "spinach-thing"). The potatos were nothing to remember either. At least the dessert was really good, I have to say! Caramelized Raviolis of goat cheese and ananas - very delicious! What I found really offensive is that they charge you for the amuse bouches!! (At the price of a minor starter!) And the espresso afterwards is so expensive (for lisbon) that they actually charge you for the 2 Petits fours that come with it as well... Wine pairing was, well, it was okay for the price. But actually it wasn't a "pairing", since I saw that every table was poured the same open wines, not matter what dishes they had... Service was friendly but seemed very helpless when asked more specific questions abou the menu or certain dishes... I knew that portugal is not the place to expect culinary treasures, but if this is "refined portugese" cuisine I'm glad that I idn't go to a "basic" restaurant... Greetings kai

Sounds good! Would have thought that "Terreire do paco" is more of an elegant place, since the pictures look very stylish. I've read somewhere that this restaurant has 2 or 3 different dining rooms on different floors, each with a different menu/style/price range. Can you tell me about the differences in style an atmosphere, since I will have to mention one of them upon my reservation, I guess. Thank you! Can't wait to go...

Thanks a lot PauloR! Can you give me an idea bout the price range of the restaurants (for a set menu)? Unfortunately none of them bothers to put prices on the online-menu... Does "eleven" serve lunch as well? And since Iam travelling alone: is it a place where you feel "comfortable" as a single (younger) diner? (I've had very differing experiences about that, depending on the restaurant and their average customer-age...). Same goes for "terreiro do paco". And finally some general questions: Are there (unwritten) dress-codes in more upscale lisbon-restaurants, meaning: do I need to wear a jacket (and a tie) at 30°+ celsius? What time is the usual "dinner time" in portugal? As late as in other southern-european countries? Or does it depend on the restaurant? (Starting a 6-course-dinner at 10pm can make for a long night...). Thanks kai

I will be in Lisbon next week for 3 nights and since I've never been there I would be very thankful for some reccomendations... ...what Iam looking for is all kinds of nice bars to hang out at night, and restaurants from great "authentic portugese neighbourhood food" to "fine dining" in the sense of "haute-cuisine-refined-portugese-dishes". I was thinking about the newly 1*-awarded "eleven" but it looks pretty "slick" and "nouveau riches", judging from the website (and the cook, named Koerber, is a german). Anybody been there? Thanks! kai

In Salzburg "Hangar 7" (a bit outisde the city on a private airport) is said to be great. The owner (he is not chef here!) is legendary austrian 3*-chef Eckart Witzigmann, who, along with his 1*-chef Roland Trettl, invites internationally renowned chefs like Robuchon or Vongerichten or Dieter Müller each month to create a tasting menu (along with a "regular" menu by Trettl). I have never been there but judging from the reviews it must be stunning! http://www.hangar-7.com/

Look again: on the website there is a choice between the "5 course" (75$/105$ with wine pairing) and the "full tasting menu" (95$/140$). You can even download the menu... Next time I would go for the full tasting menu, since the tasting portions are rather on the smaller side (on the other hand I was already drunk after the 5 wine pairings...). Champagne starts at 15$ a glass.

Well, I wish we had gone there (if it is open on sundays). We only had a sunday night to go. And since Quince and Danko (both open on Sundays!) were fully booked, we settled for Ame. Not "bad", but it didn't quite meet our great expectations...(see Ame-thread for details). But thanks to all for the great input! kai

Still I find it very strange for a serious chef to jump on the fast-food-bandwagon - fast food being a, sad enough, typically american phenomenon that people like Puck should avert, not promote. And regarding that forbes list: I didn't know that power and wealth equals happiness... But we are getting off topic here, because as cmling pointed out: W.P. is not a european, let alone german chef.

Wolfang Puck is well known among people who are interested in food. Others know him only from pre-"oscar"-reports, where he is always interviewed about what he will cook for the stars this time... Personally I have never eaten at one of his restaurants. But honestly, I don't know what to think of a chef who lends his name to a rather mediocre fast food chain. I would compare him to germanys Johann Lafer, another austrian born chef, who is extremely popular/famous in germany through his tv-shows. Once he was a michelin-2*-chef (still has 1*), now he does virtually everything that is offered to him to make a buck - though he has no fast food chain yet... but at least he is honest and doesn't call himself a "chef" anymore, but a "cooking entrepreneur".

Regarding the cookbooks: there are countless german cookbooks available from german chefs - in fact, every half known chef has his own cookbook, let alone renowned ones like dieter müller, joachim wissler, harald wohlfahrt, harald rüssel oder jörg sackmann. Many of them are pretty good, even though the recipes are pretty damn complicated most of the time. But none of them really features "typical german" recipes, as german chef are rather on the "french side" (though I have to say that american "upscale" chefs aren't very different in that regard, too...). If you are looking for a book with dessert/baking recipes that include rather typical ones from germany and austria, I highly recommend "Süsse Verführungen" by legendary austrian born chef Eckart Witzigmann - a wonderful book with tons of rather easy to cook desserts and sweet/salty baking recipes, icluding typical austrian fare like "kaiserschmarrn", "palatschinken", "salzburger nockerln", "topfenknödel" or "Linzer Torte". I love that book!

PS: I've written the following report before seeing that others have already described almost the exact same tasting menu (and with pictures!). But I'll leave my notes as they are, even though it might a bit redundant. -- We went to L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon on May 10th. It was a unique if somewhat mixed experience. We arrived at 9:45 p.m., front desk lady who seated us was extremely nice and friendly, as was our waiter and everyone else with whom we had personal contact, including the chef who made a round later the evening. The seating at the "sushi-bar" is unusual, but we liked it, since it was something completely different for this kind of "fine dining" (only really negative point about the design of the place is the uncomfortable air/"wind" you constantly get from the large opened front door - this should not be the case in a restaurant like that...). We took the "Discovery menu", which, according to the menu, consists of 9 courses. But it is only 8, really - because I refuse to count the "amuse" as a menu-course (and I find it pretty strange that Robuchon does so, since I cannot imagine him doing that in his european restaurants...). So here we go: L'AMUSE-BOUCHE Cucumber gelee tarragon cream, cumin yogurt Nice if unspectacular amuse. But nicely balanced exotic flavors and not to heavy. LA ROQUETTE Roquette salad gaspacho and tofu, black olive toast Again: just nice. Would have been way better had it been more then the 3 teaspoons we got - because a gaspacho, in my opinion, has to savored on larger spoons to really "fill" your mouth to give a real good impression of the taste and texture. (The teaspoons that are used at the Atelier are particulary bad, because they are way too "deep" which made it real difficult to get all the rather thick liquid out of them - a job that distracted even more from the tasting experience...). The excellent olive toast added some nice contrast in texture. L'ASPERGE VERTE Green asparagus with King crab salad and sea urchin dressing That dish was a joke. Really. Out of the kitchen came a plate with 1 single asparagus on it. Accompanied by a few drops of dressing and some crab meat. It looked more like a satire of those tiny mid-80s nouvelle cuisine dishes...(Again I dare say that Robuchon would not dare to present such a ridiculous portion/bland dish to his customers in france. But I might be proven wrong...) Oh yeah, the taste was, well, it was...okay...I mean...yes, sure.... At this point we started wondering if coming to the Atelier was a mistake - and if, at 125$ per menu, it would be possible that we leave the place hungry... BUT then, to our great delight, the kitchen seemed to "start over"... LES HUITRES 3 Poached baby kumamoto oysters with French "Echire” salted butter Excellent, just simply excellent! Iam no great oyster fan, but this dish...wow! Never before have I eaten such good oysters. The butter and the natural "oyster water" kind of melted together to become a sauce that was so delicious..."Thats how oysters have to taste" was my initial enthusiastic thought. And it was such a "simple" dish that just focused on the excellent product and added just a tiny little something (the first rate butter) to turn it into something spectacular... L'OUEF Egg cocotte topped with a light mushroom cream and morel mushrooms Again, a simply stunning dish in the style of Adria or Blumenthal! Words fail me to describe the experience. You have to try it yourself. LE SAUMON Slightly smoked salmon served warm with watercress dressing And again: an unforgettbable dish, simple as it was, thanks to the amazing quality of the salmon - not to forget the 4 incredibly flavorful potato slices, which, unfortunately, very pretty tiny (again!). Once again I thought: "That's exactly how salmon/potatos should taste". LA CAILLE Free-range quail stuffed with foie gras, and served with a truffled potato purée. Very good, though very classical (and again very tiny) dish. The quail was of excellent quality, but the hudson valley foie gras (of which there was really not that much, as you can imagine...) was not as tasty as the one Iam used to from europe, I have to say. A very nice, deepening touch was the small mixed-herbs-salad that came as a side, though. The truffled potato purée was very flavorful as well, but given the chefs focus on first rate products it surprised me that he seemingly didn't use (only) real truffles, but at least *added* truffle-oil (correct me if I'm wrong!). Anyways a very pleasing dish. LE MULTIVITAMINE Assortment of red fruits, Tequila sorbet Nothing special. The "assortment", as far as I remember, consisted only of raspberries. They were of excellent quality (as expected), but the sorbet didn't leave a lasting impression. LA FRAISE Strawberries, flavored with basil, Tahitian vanilla ice cream Again an extremely simple, classical dish, prepared to tasty results, thanks to excellent product quality. (I expected a bit more, though, from the "flavored with basil" than a tiny leaf of basil plucked on top of the icecream...) Summary: I wouldn't want to miss the experience, for I had 3 unforgettable courses (oysters; salmon; egg) But there were serious problems with the balance of the menu as a whole: a disappointing start and a disappointing finish: the 2 desserts, tasty as they were, were virtually the same thing in texture, temperatur and overall composition - I wonder what the chef thought, putting these 2 back to back. Especially since neither of them was very original: icecream with red berries... The finish was all the more disappointing since we constantly saw other desserts coming out of the kitchen that looked far more interesting and daring. This might be just me, but if I order the "tasting" or "discovery (!) menu", I expect to be presented the most original and daring dishes the chef has to offer - not berries with ice cream (twice!), no matter how well prepared... In short: we felt a bit cheated at this moment. Same feeling came from the manque of petit fours with the coffee, whereas other diners (who probably had ordered a la carte) seemed to get loads of them...very strange...(but I might be mistaken here). And not to forget that the whole dinner was over pretty quick: we were in and out in way less than 2 hours. So once again: I do not regret the experience at all, we had an extremely entertaining evening. And if the tasting menu was, say, 90$ I wouldn't complain. But for 125$plus tax&tip I can get the tasting menu at the majority of the european michelin-3*-places, be seated and treated like royalty and dine for 3-4 hours (without getting the check right after finishing my coffee...). But okay, this is not europe, this is las vegas, where everything is a bit more expensive... So my advice is: if you go to the Atelier, take a good look at the tasting menu and the á la carte menu and exchange several dishes if you have a feeling that they could be "boring". This way you will most probably experience an unforgettable, if pretty short, evening... -- (edited for clarity)

ulterior epicure: well, our "chawan mushi" consisted about 2/3rds or even 3/4rds of the " half liquid, eggie stuff" (sorry, I don't have the vocabular to name the substance better...). So after some three spoons it was mainly eating that (of which there was alot!) without much else left... Stu-i-moto: we are really getting off topic here, but since you asked: In frankfurt, when I want local fare like Rippchen or Grüne Sauce with Potatoes, or Handkäs', I go to the "Feuerrädchen" (Firewheel) or the "Kanonensteppel". I haven't been to the "Gemaltes Haus" for years, since it is kind of a, well, tourist spot, along with "Wagner" - but not bad, really. "Cafe Grössenwahn" is a favorite for solid bistro fare, but it is tough to get a table... "Chairs" serves very good bistro dishes as well, and at very reasonable prices. For Fine Dining I like "Tigerpalast" and "Villa Merton", both pretty expensive at 90€ (almost 110$ incl. tax but plus beverages and 5-10% tip) for a 5-course-menu (plus 2-3 amuse bouches and several petits four, both of which are standard in upscale places and never count as menu-courses). But the best restaurant around frankfurt by far is the "Restaurant Amador" (2* in the michelin) in Langen, some 20 minutes by car from the city. It is very small with a very good, casual, yet elegant service crew - you feel like at home, when you go there. The food is world class. Spaniard Amador cooks in the style of Adria and Blumenthal. His 6 course tasting menu (129€) really is an 8 course menu, because the dessert alone consists of 3 courses. Plus you get like 7 amuses bouche and 7 great "petits fours" after the menu (which is too harmless a word for what he serves...Amador calls them "our little crazy things"...). So all in all you get like 21-22 tasting impressions within the 4 hour evening...tremendous... Hope that gives you a fair impression of what I like. Did you live in frankfurt?

Just found this thread...so I'll try to give some "first hand" information straight from germany. There are alot of germany "star chefs" at the moment, some very good ones, and some worse. Apart from Johann Lafer, who was a 2* chef before becoming a tv-cook, and the aggressive Vincent Klink (1*), who is constantly attacking the food industry and the corrupt farmer-lobby, there ist the more quiet 3*-cook Dieter Müller, who is already in his late 50s and has become some sort of media-star lately, after publishing an enormous cookbook - but he has no tv-show and stands in his restaurant-kitchen every night. Apart from those celebrities there is a lot of talk about 2* chef Juan Amador, who cooks in the same experimental style as Adria and Blumenthal. His 6 course tasting menu is a 4-hour-dream...even though "6 courses" is a huge understament: the dessert alone, counted as one course, really consists of 3 courses. And before the menu itself starts there are 7 small amuses bouches, which he calls "tapas&snacks", and 7 incredible petit fours (which he calls "our little crazy things") afterwards...so all in all you get like 21-22 "courses"... When it comes to critics and food writers there is the already mentioned Wolfram Siebeck, who is very influential since the 70s when he helped the german gourmet scene getting started through his writing. Though lately he has become more and more smug and polemic on his writing, he is still essential reading. Then there is Jürgen Dollase, who has become very influential: a former rock musician who writes for the renowned Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) and the "Feinschmecker Magazin". He has a very intellectual and analytical approach - sometimes it's very enervating, but noboby can describe a meal as detailed and precise as he does. He constantly tries to sensitize people for the nuances of a meal - he has even written a book called "Geschmacksschule" ("School of Tasting"), where he tries to visualize the succesions of taste in your mouth of, say, a spoonful of mashed potatoes and peas, through graphic curves... Siebeck and Dollase, though very different in their approach, stand up for a more "local" cuisine. Several chefs, such as Vincent Klink, try to include local dishes in their menus. But it is still way too early to speak of an "avanced" local cuisine. (to be continued...)

Hope this doesn't come too late: The 2 most highly praised restaurants in Berlin right now are "44" at the Swissotel on Kurfürstendam and "Fischers Fritz" at the Regent Hotel on Gendarmenmarkt. Personally, I didn't like the very modern (in design in cuisine) "44" that much, though. But I stand pretty alone with that. "Fischers Fritz" is more classical. I haven't been there yet, but reviewers say that it could be the first place in Berlin to get 2 michelin stars in a long time. (It already has one). The Ferran Adria-inspired "Remake" ist said to be good restaurant, too (though by not as expensive -and good- as "El Bulli", of course) Hope that helps a bit. Have fun!

@molto e: in S.F. we only had 3 nights and went on a rather short notice, so the upscale places like Quince, La Folie, Danko etc were all booked, of course. Upon our late arrival in the first night, we just strolled to Little Italy and landed in a place called "Pinocchio" - but before someone yells "tourist trap!" now, I have to say that the homemade pasta was quite good (and I know a good pasta, since my mother-in-law is a sicilian homestyle-cooking expert...), especially for the price - in germany, homemade pasta is hard to find in restaurants and if you do, you gotta pay for it real good... For the second night we had a reservation at Clementine. But the friends we met in S.F. (tourists, too) wanted to go chinese. So there was a last minute change to "R&G House", which was reccomended in a german gourmet magazine and got a good rating in Zagat (didn't have time to come here for reccomendation...). It was quite allright. I cannot really judge chinese cuisine since most chinese places in germany are really horrible... Would be interesting to see how the place is regarded here. Highlights of our trip were "Providence" in L.A. (see my report in the Providence-thread) and "Atelier Joel Robuchon" in Las Vegas. The latter was a unique, if mixed experience with some truly unforgettable dishes, even though I find the menu overpriced. I'll write a report in the Robuchon-Vegas-thread these days. "Border Grill" in L.A. was very good, too (good mexican food is hard to find in germany, too...) I stop here since we Iam getting off topic in this Ame-thread... (edited for spelling)

No I didn't, docsonz. I don't know why I didn't. Usually I do. I got a feeling that it would have been a better experience with a tasting menu. (But really: if they do it anyways when asked, why not put it on the menu?!) But maybe it was just not our night (the principle chefs were not there, as far as we could see, by the way)...given all those raves there must be something to the place, I guess. By the way: your pictures are truly gorgeous! how do you do that? not in 2 seconds with a simple flashlight camera, I guess...are you a professional photographer?