tino27

Time to post some follow-up results, just for some comparisons. I used two thermometers: my instant read and my probe thermometer (the one I pictured in my earlier post). Ambient room temperature before starting: 78 deg F as registered on both thermometers. All ingredients were mise en placed this morning and had been sitting at room temperature the entire day, so I think we can safely assume that the ingredients were the same temperature as the room. Mixed the dough for about 90 seconds on my KitchenAid at speed setting 2. When the dough came together, I proceeded to knead for 5 minutes (at setting 2), added the salt, and kneaded for another minute. Temperature off of the mixer: 88 deg F. I covered with plastic wrap and set aside. Within 10 minutes, my instant read therm still read 88 deg F and my probe read 92 deg F. It stayed at precisely the exact same temperature for the 1st rise of 90 minutes. I degassed the dough and folded it over onto itself. At this point both the probes read a lower value, 82 deg F for instant read and 88 deg F for probe therm. This, too, stayed constant during the 45 minute 2nd rise. I suppose the instant read therm could've been touching a cold spot in the dough that was originally on the outside before I folded it into the center of the ball. I have now shaped the dough into boules and am proofing in my normal method, on my work surface on a towel, covered with another towel. On Tuesday, the dough only took 30 minutes to proof. I'll see how long it takes with the room temperature method. I'll post the rest of the results after the dough has baked and I can snap a shot of the boules and the interior.

I agree with the stone + steam at the beginning combo. I only posted to add that if I'm looking for an even crisper crust, I'll prop the oven door open slightly with the back of a wooden spoon during the last 3-4 minutes to let any remaining steam escape.

Clearly the thing for me to do here is a comparison batch, no proofing box, and monitor the temperature of the dough at current room temperature. I always use room temperature water when I make my doughs -- the only time I've used cold water is when I was playing around with Reinhart's Pain a l'Ancienne from BBA. Although I forgot to take a picture of it, the crumb and flavor of these loaves was the same as previous batches I have made without the use of a proofer -- so the higher heat didn't seem to affect them negatively all that much. I would definitely like to see these temperature quite a bit lower, 75 - 80 deg. I'm not looking for fast results, just consistent ones. I'll make a comparison batch, sans box, this weekend and post the results. ETA: I've seen a number of books that cite that the dough should ideally be between 77-81 deg F when it comes off the mixer.

I don't think I am concerned as much as surprised. I figured the dough might get to 83-86 deg F. I'm going to have to try a few other kinds of dough to really get the feel for the right setting on the heating pad. The other thing I thought about doing is placing a cooling rack between the sheet pan and the bowl. That would elevate the bowl about 3/4 of an inch about the heated surface.

OK, results time. I decided to test out the rig on the dough that usually gives me problems during the winter time because it is heavier than my other doughs -- the Honey Whole Wheat. I mixed up a batch, covered it with plastic wrap and placed under the plastic tub on top of the cookie sheet. I then placed the heating pad on continuous "high". I did an initial rise, a second rise, I then shaped into boules and proofed them for 30 minutes in the box. Pictures follow. First, the items I purchased yesterday at Wal-Mart ... Here it is all set up with the Honey Whole Wheat dough inside the box. Notice that the probe thermometer is sitting on top of the covered bowl. The temperature at the top of the bowl. Note, when I finally got curious enough and stuck the probe directly into the dough, it registered about 92 deg F -- far higher than I thought it would be. And, finally, the finished bread. Things that surprised me: * The box never ever felt warmer to the touch than the ambient surroundings. That could be because the ambient room temperature was 75 deg F. Perhaps in cooler weather, I would notice a difference. * The internal temperature of the dough reached 92 deg F. I wouldn't have thought it would've been that warm. It took about 90 minutes for a first rise, 45 minutes for a second rise, and a 30 minute proof using this box. As long as I can count on that amount of time in colder weather, I'm satisfied with the results. * While the tub that I bought will defintiely accomodate a half-sheet pan, I was also hoping it would accomodate two of my workbowls. Alas, it was about 6 inches two short. Perhaps I'll replace the tub with something slightly longer so that I can fit what I need under it.

Well, I've decided to take a sort of hybrid approach to all of the wonderful suggestions that have been posted here and on the other thread that andiesenji pointed to. I stopped at Wal-Mart today at lunch and picked up a Sunbeam heating pad ($25), a very large (75L maybe) translucent plastic tub ($7) and one of those stick-on aquarium temperature gauges ($3). The plan is to lay an inverted half-sheet pan over the heating pad, place the bowl of dough on top of that (or another sheet pan with shaped dough ready for final proofing), and then the tub inverted over all of that. Even though the aqarium thermometer only goes to 86 deg F, that should be plenty seeing as I am shooting for between 77 to 82 deg F. I made sure to get a tub big enough to hold either an entire half-sheet pan OR two of my workbowls (so I could be working on two batches at any given time). I will post pictures and results tomorrow. Note: There were cheaper heating pads available, but almost every one of them had auto-off after two hours. That and they looked a little flimsy. The Sunbeam has six heat settings, includes a continuous "on" setting, and had a 12 foot cord to boot. Fortunately I've saved my receipt in case this doesn't work.

I used straight egg wash, not diluted with water. That gives it the glistening shine. However, it's the sugar in the dough that makes it that beautiful mahogany brown color. I do bake them at the same temperature as listed in BBA, however, mine are consistenly done after 40 minutes, not the 50-60 minutes originally called for.

Over the weekend, I baked sandwich bread for a friend's 80th birthday party. Although some of it did get used to make sandwiches, most people were eating the sliced bread just as it was -- without even putting anything on it. The best compliment, to be sure! Here is a picture of all the breads I made between Saturday 8 AM and Sunday 8 AM. From the back working clockwise you have ... * Pain de Mie * Portuguese Sweet Bread (from BBA) * Sweet Potato Bread * Honey Whole Wheat Unfortunately, as these loaves were for a party, I wasn't able to get crumb shots before leaving for the event. (edited to fix image link)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I can't use the light in my oven (regardless of the wattage) because it is a rather inexpensive oven and while it does have a light that turns on when you open the door, there is no way to keep the light on once the door is shut. I'm also digging the use of a heating pad with an inverted Cambro style food box. Bill44 -- I'm totally in tune with what you've come up with. The only thing I was thinking of adding would be a couple of rails on the inside so that once I've shaped my freeform loaves, I could place them on a half-sheet pan and slide them into the box. One question for you though ... on the right hand side of the first picture you posted, it looks like there is a knob-type device. What is this for? And if you don't mind me asking, about how much did it cost you to put it together? I have a friend who is totally into woodworking that would love a project like this, so I may have to trade him bread for box.

With the cooler weather now returning to Ohio, I am re-contemplating the thought of building (or buying) a homemade proofing box to combat the extra long rise times that will ultimately result because of my cooler kitchen. Because I currently live in a fairly old house built in 1914, the kitchen can become quite chilly in winter (52-55 deg F) which makes for some painfully long breadmaking sessions. I've used the oven before to proof dough, but if I'm making multiple batches, only one batch at a time can occupy it. I've looked on Google for a proofing box for the home cook, but alas, I haven't found anything. Do any of you eGulleter's out there have some suggestions for a quick, easy, and cheap way to put together an effective proofing box? Or even a suggestion for a product that already exists?

Quick story illuminating this point: I had been invited over for Christmas dinner at a friend's house. She had asked for my assistance in cooking the vegetable dish, so I dutifully went off to the kitchen to prepare the veggies. When I got to the stove, there was a pot of mashed potatoes sitting on the back burner over a low flame -- presumably to be kept warm until service. As I was waiting for the veggies to cook, I snuck a little taste of the potatoes and immediately realized that they were woefully undersalted -- if even salted at all. So, I corrected the seasoning and finished up the vegetable dish. At dinner, my friend took a bite of the mashed potatoes and looked at me and asked if I had done anything to the potatoes. When I responded that I had simply added salt, she kept repeating that she just couldn't believe how much better they were. And she couldn't believe that the only thing I added was salt. I've also been the grill master at many a friends house and when they see me seasoning the meat with salt & pepper right before I put it on the grill, they act as if this is some novel, revolutionary idea.

I totally agree with you ... it seems to be feast or famine (pardon the pun) when it comes to salt. Chili's and Outback Steakhouse are for me guilty of the heavy-handed salting where I've often asked the server simply to leave the pitcher of water because the food is that salty. I generally like what Panera's serves, but their soups are to my palate way too salty. In fact, I mentioned this to my mom one time (who frequents Panera occasionally, too) and now she notices the salt as well. And although having too little salt can show a lack of skill (especially in fine restaurants), at least I can adjust the seasoning to my taste. Then again, we learn from what we see ... how many people grew up in households where a parent or grandparent or uncle always added extra salt to food before even tasting it? I know many people that do that to this day and it drives me bonkers.

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, reading all of the interesting comments. Personally, I think good food, destination food can come with or without the entertainment value. If I'm eating at an upscale venue where I am paying top dollar for the food, then I agree wholeheartedly that I expect good food, good service, and good ambiance. If I stop at the local rib shack that only offers take-out, but makes the best pulled pork sandwich around, then clearly I am just going there for the food. I like doing the former when I can afford to, but finding the latter is always more impressive. I think what I (and I'm guessing a number of other people posting on this thread) am concerned with is how frustrated I feel at trying to get people to break out of the mold ... to try something new. Unfortunately, I have found that the definition of the word "new" depends on who is defining it. To me new is experimentation, a new type of cuisine, a different type of meat that I've never tried before, a new kind of preparation of the ingredients. And usually you find those things with skilled local chefs. To many, many people I know, "new" means that new Cheesecake Factory or that new T-Rex or ... you get the picture -- someplace they've never eaten before but all of their friends have clamored on about how good everything is and how HUGE the portions are. Even though there appears to be cultural differences between menus of these chain restaurants, they are carefully put together to not really stray TOO far from what average, middle-class Americans like to eat. It may be new, but it's also safe.

And after that, a sword fight with your little brother. With the breadsticks, I mean. ← Pretending to be the Corsican Brothers?

Usually I buy books that cover very specific topics, like artisinal bread making (as mentioned before) that focus usually more on technique than actual recipes. If I'm looking for a specific recipe, I'm more apt to go on-line and use Google. Plus the benefit of on-line searching is that you usually find about six different ways to make the same recipe. You can then take that information and make your own version, depending on your tastes. That being said, the Information Technology section of my bookcase is slowly being overrun with various recipe and technique books.

I also use both a word processor and spreadsheet software (open-source equivalent -- OpenOffice) to do very similar things, including pricing certain dishes that clients may want at their event. Plus, with the benefit of the spreadsheet, I can scale up or down very easily in terms of both cost and amount of raw ingredients I need. But, I've taken this to the next level of geekdom. Once I have my time schedule figured out, I then send a copy of it along with my ingredient list to my BlackBerry, where I can peruse and fine tune the lists whenever I fancy.

I've used this type of shortening in one of my sweet bread recipes and I've never had any problems with it.

One thing that I discovered about this recipe and it's been true all three times I've made the dough is that not only is the water called for in the dough portion (not the sponge) of this recipe unnecessary, but I had to actually add about 1/4 cup more flour in order for the dough to come into a nice soft ball. That and the rising/proofing times listed in the recipe were WAY too short compared to what I experienced. That being said, this bread is DELICIOUS. Totally worth the effort and time.

The point of the different flours is the final texture of the bread. Incorporating a little "00" or pastry flour would weaken the gluten formation slightly, giving the baked bread a different look and feel. For example, there is a big difference in making a loaf of bread with 100% whole wheat flour versus 50% whole wheat and 50% bread flours. Fresh yeast can actually survive quite a long time -- well past the expiration date. I had a chef instructor of a bread class who used one of those vacuum seal home devices to re-seal her left over yeast and she claimed it was good for up to three months. Personally I keep an air-tight container of instant yeast in my freezer and have had no problems even 9 or 10 months after opening the original vacuum packed bag. As for the re-activation question ... Joy of Baking The relevant paragraph ... "You may have noticed that in some recipes it calls for dissolving the yeast first in a warm liquid and then adding this active yeast mixture to the flour. Other recipes, however, call for the yeast first being added to the flour and then the warm liquid is added. The dissolving of the yeast first in a warm liquid is done to make sure the yeast is still fresh and active. This step really doesn't need to be done though because of how reliable the dry yeast is today. Also, the dry yeast has such a small granule size that it dissolves easily into the dough without having to be reconstituted separately. Some bakers, however, still feel that it is a good idea to test the yeast to make sure it is still active before adding it to the flour."

My roommate thought I had lost my mind when I spent fifteen minutes yammering about the fact that I had found fresh morels at my farmer's market. I'm not sure which contributed more to his thought that I had gone mad -- that I could talk about them for 15 minutes straight or that I paid $9 for a 1/4 pound of them. However, I became sane again after he ate the seared strip steak with a morel cream sauce I served to him later that day. I think he finally understood why I was so excited. Although not fresh wild mushrooms, per se, another trick I've used in the past is to use a coffee grinder to grind up dried porcini mushrooms until they are a powder. Then I salt and pepper a nice flank steak and rub the porcini powder into the meat before searing it. Quite delicious!

My guess would be 1) yeast is no longer viable or 2) not enough gluten formation in the dough to trap the gas released by the yeast. You didn't say what kind of yeast you used, but if it's active dry, you'll definitely want to bloom it in some tepid water (110-115 deg F) for a few minutes to make sure it's alive before adding it to the dough. Instant and fresh cake yeast don't need this pre-treatment, but you may want to do it anyway to check on the status of your yeast. I wouldn't think it would be the room temperature, as yeast doesn't die until around 140 deg F. I'm thinking if it's THAT hot outside, the last thing I'd think about doing would be making bread.

I, too, like both beer and wine. My take is that each can be simple or complex. I will say this, however: even the most expensive of beers is far more accessible than those comparable bottles of Lafite Rothschilds or Petrus. I learned how to smell and taste in college by trying many local and imports at my local beverage warehouse (where they would let you mix up your own six-pack). Even the most expensive of imports was never more than $3 a bottle. $18 for six completely different flavors is a pretty good deal. A lot of those same smelling/tasting skills carry over to wine tasting, but unless you have access to regular wine tastings, it's much harder to refine those skills. Plus, there is much less guilt associated with dumping 12 ounces of a beer I don't care for down the drain rather than 26 ounces of wine.

I had the great fortune to stumble across the olive bar at Jungle Jim's near Cincinnati, OH and finally found a green olive that I adore as much as the nicoise -- the picholine. I greedily scooped up a pound or so and am now contemplating what to do with the lovely little morsels (other than just eating them straight from the container ).

My take on olives from the can is that they are simply a mechanism for delivering salt to the mouth. I find that they really don't bring a lot of their own flavor to the party. However, I do like Kalamata and simply adore Nicoise olives (when I can find them) and will happily use either for all sorts of dishes.

Yep, you should be able to use them interchangably. ETA: Try looking for instant yeast at your local Sam's Club-esque type place -- they usually sell them in hermetically sealed 1 pound bags. They are wicked cheap for the amount of yeast you get. I usually keep them sealed until I am ready to use them and then keep the yeast in an airtight container in my freezer. I've never had any problems with it.