Andy Fenn

I agree. Absolutely brilliant. I really like Richard E Grant's reations - just sheer amazement.

I have to disagree with the Michel Bras criticisms. My one meal there this year was stunning - definitely a higher level than Troisgros three days before. The desserts were a dud, but the hot foie gras and the lamb were astonishing. I can't wait to go back, and this time I'll stay at the hotel.

So how was the dinner? Shame to hear it was disappointing. Thanks for the reports. I have no idea how you find room for it all. Great photos on the website too.

So what is it that explains the cost? The Spanish 3 stars don't go above 180 euros, some considerably less. The most expensive menu at the Fat Duck is £115, RHR £110. Tasting at the Waterside £92 (though admittedly you could top £120 a la carte). So why can't Ducasse do it?

On the one hand he says he cannot bring Monaco to London: "In Monaco and Paris the average spend is between 350 and 400 euros per person. I could not transfer that to London. It would be too formal and too expensive." On the other hand he gets offended at the suggestion of serving farmed fish: "What do you think, mmm? That I came to London to do this? Believe me, I did not come to London to cook farmed fish." I don't accept that you can't cook 3 star food for such a "cheap" price as a £115 tasting menu. Not Ducasse, not anyone. No 3 star restaurant in England has ever charged more than that. You price to your market. Which is what he did in New York, for the full experience. A price tag like the Dorchester menu sends a message to any London punter that it's going to be the real deal. If that message wasn't intended by Ducasse, and/or if the goal was never 3 stars, then the Ducasse organisation simply misjudged the London market. As for why the restaurants in Paris/France are more expensive, I don't know the answer. And I would like to understand. It simply cannot go purely on ingredients. Etxebarri uses pretty much the best ingredients anywhere. It's pricey, but nowehere near 300-400 Euros a head. And I can't believe the staff costs tell the whole story. Moreover, rent can't be dearer than London, surely? I happen to think that Paris has long been known as the culinary capital of the world. And many people go on about how most of the "real" 3 star restaurants are in France. So that justifies the price tag. Haute cuisine in London struggles to make big bucks, so maybe in Paris they have a model that allows starred restaurants to make proper money? Would be really interested in the explanation, if anyone has it?

But I'm not sure that's really comparing like with like; it's a completely different market. The price of 3 stars in Paris (and Monaco) is far higher than in the UK. With the London market as it is, you couldn't arrive charging Paris price tags - the press and the population would revolt. As an opening price, £115 for a tasting menu already puts it above London's only 3 star (GR RHR is £110), and it can only go higher. I think we were entitled to expect his A game. Take New York for example - when AD went there, his prices were the equivalent to the Dorchester menu. It earned 3 stars from michelin, and was by all accounts the real deal. It sounds to me like the whole thing was badly thought out. Which is clear from the sacking of ex Spoon chef (Spoon! For goodness' sake) 2 weeks before opening. And like everyone else on this thread (where does Zoticus get his ideas from?), I was really hoping it to be a success. At the moment, the overwhelming body of opinion suggests that it isn't. So why spend your money there when it could buy you dinner at any other restaurant in the country? Whether it turns into one is down to Ducasse and his team. I truly hope they give it the attention it deserves.

I second hibiscus. It's certainly not boring. Moby, why Noisette? You been recently? I hear they're selling up, and moving Bjorn elsewhere. Greenhouse was very good last week. But I agree, for really interesting (subjective of course, but to my mind) high end food, outside of London is better (Fat Duck, Midsummer House, Sat Bains, Champignon Sauvage etc). However, London is VERY good in the mid range these days (Arbutus, Wild Honey, Magdalen, Angelus, Great Queen St, l'autre pied). Which certainly shows where the current trend in London is, contrary to Zoticus' and others' concerns about the dangerous and terrible spread of "molecular Gastronomy" expressed elsewhere. I tend to think it is the provincial new openings that punch above their weight in that sense.

Artisan also has (or had) a stall at Borough, selling normal chocolates AND rejects. Pick up a bag for £1.50 full of salted caramels that were too ugly for display... Back of the net. As for Amadei, Selfridges now stocks it, but in a random location I think, not with the rest of the chocolate. Paul Young has the full range of Amadei too - even Porcelana (£8 for 50g!). Bought some Amadei Chuao there last week for a fiver. And finally, William Curley has opened up a stall in the new John Lewis food hall. The "Chuao" chocolate is amazing, but they don't sell individual bars. They might do at the Richmond store.

After our Ducasse cancellation, we nabbed a table at the Greenhouse. And very good it was too. The one thing that stood out for me was that the main event on every plate was perfectly cooked: Langoustines, lobster, foie, turbot, sweetbreads.... All of them absolutely perfect. Caramelised on the outside, the correct degree of rareness in the middle, depending on the ingredient. And that is so difficult to find in London these days. Some things were a touch underseasoned, but that could be corrected at the table. Conceptually, some dishes worked very well indeed. Others were a little strange (ie VERY cheesy gnocchi with the lobster) Service was very friendly, and they certainly knew their stuff. It was pretty rammed though, and we did have to wait a while to order. And another gripe - no offer of tap water. Usually I would specify, but it seemed they were serving all tables from the same bottles of water, so I assumed it was included. But no - apparently we were served 6 bottles of the stuff, which cost £30... That aside, I had a great time. Met Antonin Bonnet, the chef, who quite alarmingly shares the looks and mannerisms of a young Kevin Spacey! An interesting mix of leftovers from the Bjorn days (Snix salted caramel dessert; classic preparation of the day etc) and the touches of the new (evidence of his experience at Bras - plating, Aubrac meat, and his own obsession with Asian spices etc). My food was: Starter: Glazed langoustine with jerusalem artichoke veloute and roasted chestnuts. The shellfish was cooked to perfection and full of sweetness. The veloute was excellent, if a tiny bit thin for me, and the chestnuts added some interesting flavour and texture. Served in a beautiful bowl, but I think it should have been poured tableside, as it wasn't piping hot when it arrived, and the bowl wasn't warm. And I'm fickle - I love that tableside presentation stuff. Extra midcourse to share: Grilled foie gras on vine shoots spiced figs and ginger crumble The best dish of the night for me. Foie cooked to perfection. The figs had been pickled. The acidity and sweetness paired very well with the foie, and the crumble had real ginger heat to it. You were left with a gentle aftertaste of the lime zest (or its Thai counterpart?) that had been grated on top. Excellent. We were also given a little foie parfait freebie, that was also excellent. Similar in texture to the bain marie at Troisgros. Served with jerusalem artichoke foam, and pear. Main: Roasted Aubrac veal chop baby carrots, lavender buds and rosemary honey Again, cooked to perfection. But a little undersalted. And I think the Hibiscus version had more flavour. Carrots were lovely, and a little side dish of carrot puree and apple jelly (!) worked surprisingly well. However, I though the side plates for other main dishes (lobster tortelllini with the lobster; cinammon couscous with the turbot) let them down. It was like they had been cooked by another person, and they didn't easily integrate with the rest of the dish. Cheese - Bernard Anthony etc 50 month (!) comte was amazing. Bit off way too much on my first go and was completely overwhelmed. It's incredibly punchy stuff. Other cheese were very good, and very intense. The Brie had a whipped consistency, and it tasted great. Dessert: Pistachio millefeuille, with lots of other stuff I can't remember Lovely pastry, but the pistachio flavour was muted, and overpowered by the citrussy flavours in other layers. He clearly loves his nuts - the dessert choices were littered with them. LOADS of little extras at the end. Which I didn't need, ate anyway, and then felt rough. Standard. There are some criticisms, but they didn't detract much from the overall quality of the meal. I suspect michelin will do something with them in Jan - espoir or a second star. I will definitely be back.

The plating should be appropriate to the style of food that is served. The presentation at the Fat Duck, Mugaritz or el Bulli would look equally out of place at an Alain Ducasse restaurant. Which expensive London restaurants do you associate with "toy" food and plating, by the way? The adolescent Square? Or that spotty teenager, Petrus? It is churlish to ignore the importance of presentation with food at high end restaurants. Of course, one can often receive a gorgeous, intricate plate of food that tastes utterly forgetful. But at AD, you should get both. And perhaps it would all be forgiven, were the wow factor "present in the eating", as you suggest. But the early reports suggest that the dishes look AND taste dull and uninspired. So, as Matt says, I'm going to leave it for a while. If he is serious about this venture, Alain should give it the care and attention it deserves.

That chicken looks like something I was served at a wedding earlier this Summer. There is no finesse whatsoever in the plating of that dish. That's fine, if it tastes good. Unfortunately, I cannot comment on that.

God, that looks awful. Have you seen the photos on Andy Hayler's website? Check it out It looks as though the food has just been slopped on to a plate. And to be served fillet steak and chips and a restaurant like this is an insult. I am now very apprehensive about tomorrow night.

Finally, the Ledbury has itself a website I go here a lot, and now know Brett and the team quite well. I suppose I'm biased, but it's one of my favourite places in London.

I actually heard the food wasn't great - sole and chicken overcooked. But hey - almost all of London and beyond's starred chefs is a tough audience. Apparently the coco caramel was excellent though. I'm there on Friday. Starters look infinitely more interesting than fish and meat.

Thanks for all the reports - it's great to read through. Ducasse breakfast sounds amazing. Keep an eye out this winter for the premium Herme selection - I saw it advertised when I was there in Octoober. Aged balsamic, fig and foie gras, white truffle, black truffle... Sounds interesting. And if you like Chestnut, I think Bethillon ice cream has a good version every autumn.

Thanks for the taste test and pics IndolentAgain. I recently bought some of that Neal's Yard butter, and it's incredible. I think it's actually "clotted cream butter". How that differs, and how that's made, I have no idea. Anyone?

The Lecture Room/Library at Sketch and Pierre Gagnaire Paris are a world apart in quality. At any rate, michelin have them 1 star versus 3 star, but the difference is greater than that.

Also, there's SERIOUS beef between Gordon and Marcus. Marcus is looking to break free of GRH. The ultimate fuck you would be to take over the Connaught dining room. Unless Passard gets there first.

By the way, there is also a tasting menu offered. £115. Bosh.

Interesting that there has been another change in a dish. I wonder how much is down to supply and how much down to tweaking.

Yes, I had read that review before going. I ate rabbit with a sea urchin veloute at the fat duck around 6 years ago, so the idea of meat with uni isn't that new, and when executed correctly, certainly not crazy, and perhaps "makes perfect sense". But to me, even as an urchin lover, the sauce was too powerful. Perhaps the sauce was slightly different when she was there, or perhaps she just has different tastes. I really liked the food (mostly), but it just didn't feel "easy" to me. As for Fay's reviews, the lack of rating is nonsensical. Either bar up and give a rating based on one early meal, or go to the restaurant more than once to help balance opening inconsistencies and post a review a week later.

Yes, two tasting menus in fact. One is 5 courses (I think) for £60 (I think). The other is a 7 course "Surprise" menu for £75. Prices at this level are pretty good right now. 3 courses a la carte was £50. Lunch is £25 for 3 courses.

And by the way, there is a review up on Andy Hayler's website: http://www.andyhayler.com/show_restaurant....aurant=Hibiscus

We ate in a group of 5. As there were 5 choices for each course, we ate everything on the menu... Interesting to note that some things on the menu last night were the same as those mentioned from last week, but with a different main ingredient. The sweetcorn tartare is now with lamb's sweetmeats (bollocks!), and has also been with lamb's brain since opening. Likewise, poached trout has been poached yellowfin, with the same garnish. The bread and butter are superb. Incredibly yellow and full flavoured butter. Same bread as at the Fat Duck. I didn't care for the tonic amuse - hibiscus flower soda with olive oil lacked the olive oil note required. My starter was the langoustine ravioli. The ravioli were jam packed full of beautifully cooked transulcent meat. But I wasn't sure about the garnish: cinnamon onion marmelade was too powerful; worse still, a pile of bean sprouts totally overwhelmed the forkful, without complementing any of the flavours. Why beansprouts? Why? They were in the salad with the sausage roll later on, too. Other starters were better or worse: foie gras ice cream is fantastic - the brioche emulsion tastes of buttered bread, in a wonderfully familiar way. Could do with some more texture though. Pollack very light, but his truffle plate-mate was anonymous. Crisp fried lamb's bollocks were surprisingly nice. Shame the mackerel and the hot foie weren't on the menu - I'd like to have tried. Mains were almost universally excellent. By far the best course. I had venison with smoked chocolate sauce (intense), chicken liver parfait (good offally background), pumpkin seeds and creamed cabbage. If only the venison hadn't been overcooked, this would have been a knockout. Accompanying dauphinoise were awesome. Turnip root less so. Other mains: the veal was fantastic. Excellent specimen, and lightly handled. Trout was also excellent. Don't remember the john dory as well. I actually thought the pork with uni (£12.50 supplement!) was the weakest. I love uni, and I thought it was too powerful in the sauce, especially with an actual tongue as well. But the sausage roll was very good (just a shame about those bloody bean sprouts). OH MY GOD THE CHEESE WAS AMAZING. I have had B Anthony cheese before, but never in such perfect condition. The Tomme de Savoie was off the charts. Unfortunately, desserts were almost uniformly poor. I had the olive oil parfait with chickpeas and date puree. I really didn't like this, and I love olive oil desserts usually. The chickpeas tasted raw, and had sprouts coming out of the top, so they AGAIN tasted like beansprouts. The olive oil didn't come through, and the biscuit that sanwiched the parfait was unpleasant in texture. The apple in the apple tart was undercooked and the pastry wasn't great. I didn't have enough of the whimberries to form an opinion, but the general consensus wasn't great. Only the millefeuille impressed. A gorgeous towering version, with an excellent marriage of flavours. Claude told us that his pastry chef wasn't in the restaurant that night, and it showed. The sommelier was outstanding, with infectious enthusiasm. So overall, I had a very good meal, with some let downs. So it would be possible to go into the restaurant, choose 3 awesome courses, and think it the best food in London. But likewise, you could have a duff meal. In restaurants like the Fat Duck, the more gnarly flavour combinations sound strange in print, but taste effortless and natural on the plate. Hibiscus wasn't like this. Even the dishes that worked felt like a challenge in some way. So it will be interesting to see how the general public react to this type of food, and how Claude refines the dishes once he has settled in. I know my account might sound like I can't make my mind up on how good the food was. And that might be how I feel. But in the end, I love this kind of exciting adventurous food, and think it's a great addition to London. I'll be back.

Yauatcha Salt Yard Great Queen Street Tayyabs