Andy Fenn

I went to l'Arpege with IanT last weekend. We were massively pumped for this meal. Runningupthestairsfromthemetrostation pumped. But at the same time (for me anyway), slightly wary. For every stellar experience at l'Arpege, there is someone who felt ripped off to offset it. The restaurant itself is very plain. Almost slightly tired at the edges. But it gave an extremely intimate feel that you don't get at l'Ambroisie, and certainly not (I imagine) at the more palatial dining spots in Paris. We were sat at the table just by the door, which was slightly disappointing. We whispered grumbles to one another, and within 30 seconds, the head waitress came over and asked if we'd like to move to a different table. We gratefully obliged. Ian and I quite fancied her, by the way. And the service continued in that vane for the remainder of the evening. It was probably the best service I have had in a restaurant. Their manner was charming, helpful, humerous, and extraordinarily professional. I hadn't appreciated that service was so top notch here - it is rarely stressed in reviews - so it far exceeded our expectations. The waiting staff were around 80% female, which is unusual. Perhaps there's something to be said for this. Hell of a contrast to the sausage fest at l'Ambroisie the next day. We decided to split a la carte courses rather than incur the financial wrath of the tasting menu. This is definitely the way to go. The first two dishes were the best of the evening, and we almost didn't order them. And that would have been 100% Ian's fault, I should add. Luckily, our waitress put him right. Damn it, that butter was good. Ian was eating it like cheese, occasionally with some bread. Much saltier than than the good butters I have had before. Course 1: Wild asparagus consomme with lemon and cabbage ravioli (Ian, is this right?) I can't describe how good this was. The broth looked so innocuous, but had incredible length and depth of flavour. Four tiny ravioli packed a citrussy punch, and then gave way to the cabbage and onion. Then the consomme took over. Phenomenal. Course 2: Robes des champs multicolores «Arlequin » chou-rave bleu azur, radis white breakfast, navet atlantic, carotte white satin Basically, this was the garden vegetables course, all cooked for varying lengths of time and accompanied with argan oil, couscous, herb puree and plenty of butter. Again, the purity and depth of flavour were stunning. Very different from the gargouillou at Bras - more butter and fewer herbs and flowers. More decadent and perhaps less "pure" (not a criticism - I preferred the l'Arpege dish). The binding elements made it more similar in style to the Mugaritz dish bound with the emmenthal sauce. But again, very different. Course 3: jerusalem artichoke soup with speck cream Not up to the dizzy heights of its predecessors, but very good nonetheless. An enormous quenelle of speck cream is served into your bowl at the table. The soup was very good, and I love jerusalem artichoke, but it lacked the depth and complexity of the consomme. Course 4: grilled abalone This was a special that we had to try after Tupac (from eGullet) recommended it. These were lovely, again doused in browned butter, and served with a leaf or two from the garden and some fancy pepper. We had two and a half each as a split portion, but this seemed very generous. Ian got a little more excited than I did about these, but they were excellent. I actually had a real hankering for one yesterday. How strange. Course 5: Lobster with vin jaune sauce The famous whole cooked lobster is brought to the table in its pan before being whisked away for service. You have all seen the photos on here, and ours was no different. I loved the confidence of the service: nothing more than a couple of sorrel leaves and a tiny baked potato shared its plate. This is absolutely the kind of cooking I favour these days, where the quality of the ingredient is allowed to take centre stage. The lobster itself was stunning. Sweet, buttery, meaty and moreish. Course 6: Veal sweetbread with liquorice, pear and lemon rind One enormous sweetbread was shared between us. Again, brought to tableside in a huge copper pan still sizzling. Again, served with no more than a couple of leaves from the garden. I loved this course. Beautifully cooked, crunchy and creamy, and the lemon rind flavour lent a rounder and more subtle acidity. The meaty buttery juices just cried out for some serious mopping. But I was flagging at this point. Our half portions had seemed very generous. So we asked if we could go for a little walk. The waitress said that was fine, and then sprinted off into the kitchen, shouting "arrete arrete...". Bollocks, we had some pigeon on the way, as a freebie from the chef, and we didn't want to appear rude or throw the kitchen off kilter. They assured us the walk was not a problem, so we popped out for a few minutes. Extra course: pigeon with pepper an honey? Breast for me, leg for Ian. This was delicious, and perfectly cooked. We felt exonerated for stealing our walk. And I had found a second wind. Happy days. Bernard Anthony 4 year old comte (and another cheese whose name I forget) We saw the comte being wheeled around the room throughout the evening, and I was certain it had to be younger than the four year old. It looked fresh and creamy, quite unlike the hard gnarly parmesan esque chunks I have been served in the Capital or the Greenhouse. I now know that these were mere imposters that hadn't been kept properly. This comte was insane. Still immaculately fresh and creamy, but riddled with tiny crystals. They shaved wafer thin servings off the main round of cheese, that packed an incredible punch. A far better way of serving this cheese than lopping off great big chunks. Wow. Desserts - all four of them Before our parade of desserts, I should mention the most perfect perfect perfect coriander cannelle. Crunchy, but ridiculously moist and light inside. Dessert 1 was the best in my opinion. Millefeuille of rhubarb with salted caramel. There can be no lighter millefeuille. It was like it wasn't there. Totally weightless. Crunchy, light and buttery. Beautiful rhubarb. And when is salted caramel not good? Dessert 2 was a textbook pistachio and chocolate souffle. Not in the slightest big eggy. Delicious, and made in tiny little ramekins, which makes it all the more remarkable. Dessert 3 was a delicious apple tart where apple had been thinly sliced and rolled into tiny rose shapes. Again, the pastry was immaculate. Luckily, there was another dollop of salted caramel to shake things up a little. Dessert 4 was the only low point - lemongrass floating island in a coffee creme anglaise. The combination just didn't work. I should mention the wine. The list IS ridiculous. We counted maybe 8 wines under 100E. So we rather worriedly asked our sommelier to match up some wines. We wanted to give a budget, but she kept saying, "don't worry, leave it to me". This put the fear of god into us. It turned out being 80E a head for some delicious wines. They steam off the labels from the bottles, stick them to a card and leave them on your table throughout the meal. Lovely touch. I have the names at home, if anyone's interested. Before pouring our second espresso, the other sommelier, whom we had not spoken to throughout the meal, came bounding over with a huge bottle of old calvados. "This will make it much better." He poured an enormous glug of calvados into our cup. And of course, he was right. I should mention that David Kinch (chef at Manresa in California) had been in touch with the restaurant before we arrived. So that might explain the extra special treatment - I can't say if the service is so good every night. Two or three times throughout the whole meal, Alain Passard would walk around the room, and on his way back to the kitchen, pat me on the shoulder and say hello. Ian was resolutely ignored, and he was getting upset by this point. But at the end of the meal, when we were the last people in the restaurant, he gave Ian a good pat on the shoulder, and all was right with the world. He was such a dude. There's no other word for it. He seemed so at home in the restaurant, and so passionate about what he was doing. We explained (in pidgeon French) that we respected him for not expanding and globalising, like the Ducasses and Ramsays of the world. His response? "Gordon Ramsay? 'ee can fuck off. Ducasse? Fuck off. Come into my kicten and we see 'oo can cook." We've been invited down to the vegetable garden an hour or so south of Paris. Needless to say, I am wetting myself at the prospect. This is a very very special restaurant. It was a wonderful evening. It felt like we were sitting in his front room being cooked for by him. The staff made us feel one of the family. And the food was exquisite. When we left at 1.30 in the morning, it felt like I was walking on air. Can't wait to go back.

Hi folks Any update on this thread? I'm off to Norwich this weekend and would appreciate the recommendations. The Wildebeest Arms and 1up look fun from the websites, and the Lavender House looks good. They're the front runners so far. Stephen, did you get to any of these places when you went in the end?

The list does seem a few year behind doesn't it? I can visualise the 2011 press release now: "Manresa and el Poblet highest new entries; Tokyo has more entries than Paris or London put together."

I had an extremely mediocre lunch there a month ago. I'm no wine buff, but the sommelier did seem good - he wanted us to try a biodynamic wine that was said to be fairly unique. When we asked the price, he said £17, so we declined. He really wanted us to try it, so he gave it to us for £10 a glass. I was pretty impressed.

Just to keep you all in the loop, the Fat Duck is still great! Had another excellent meal there last week. I was with three FD virgins, and two second timers, so we all had the tasting menu, with some swaps for the repeat visitors. Not a lot new to say, but the usual Amuses get better every time the mustard ice cream was stunning. My friend's crab biscuit was superb, the Sound of the Sea was fun, and some of the seaweed was delicious. Scallops with white chocolate and caviar (in for the salmon) were lovely, but suffered from tasting portion - I think they sliced the scallop into FOUR! The new pigeon dish is better than the previous one, I think. I also had the Black Forest Gateau instead of the bacon and egg ice cream. Again, excellent. The Whiskey Wine Gums were quality. Now I need to go back to do a la carte for the remaining dishes to try - radish ravioli of oyster, the pork dish, and the apple dessert.

I wouldn't condone the "it's a 3 star restaurant because it's a 3 star restaurant" approach. Where's the fun in that?! I'm sure you'd agree that it's open to any restaurant goer to suggest that a 3 star restaurant doesn't deserve its 3 stars. And its virtually accepted in the industry that it's very hard to lose that third star; or rather, the demotion comes years after it was warranted. As a Londoner, I just find it sad to see the decline in standards at RHR. I have said it elsewhere on here, but my early meals there (2002) were stunning. But two meals last year were lacklustre. I agree though - until michelin agrees with me (and I don't think I'm the only one), there's no incentive to focus any serious attention on the flagship!

I love Gandarias. Fantastic service, and they sell Belondrade (beautiful white wine) by the glass... Mmmm

Ramsay's comment about wanting to fix Petrus is driven purely by his personal feud with Marcus. He needs to fix RHR and return it to a true 3 star level before worrying about Petrus. I suspect Marcus will break free of GR Holdings before too long.

Not as far as I know! What's the Arpege element? Salt crust? Celeriac? The whole lot?

Funny you should post that Ian - I was about to post on the very same dish. I eat at the Ledbury a lot (probably too much!), and it is easy to become complacent about the quality of the food that is being churned out. But my meal on Saturday was the first since before Christmas, and the quality really jumped out at me. The celeriac dish (and the roe deer dish - did you have this?) was stunning. The crust is almost totally salt, but with a little egg and flour to hold together, and it actually looks like pastry. Brett is trying to bring more tableside service dishes to the menu, which I look forward to. They also have a new restaurant manager, who is pretty top drawer, and a much bigger sommelier team. So it seems to be hitting a higher level, with greater consistency. Unfortunately, the restaurant really struggles with the lunch trade, due to location, which is a shame.

Think that's what Matt meant? Good enough for 1 star, but surprised to see it on the way to 2?

How far away is Nathan Outlaw? My Dad ate there and said it was superb.

Yes, I only heard the BraSSSSS when Greg Wallace and John Torode shouted it at one another on the Masterchef final. I went last summer, and it was absolutely wonderful. I think I posted a review on here somewhere; superior meal to Troisgros. I've booked to stay this year, and I can't wait to go back.

Isn't his point that a great MEAL isn't just about "great food"? For him, the element of theatre is all part of it? I can see why some people are turned off by the theatre or playful elements of the meal at the Fat Duck if they are expecting those elements to be of gastronomic interest only. However, if you accept it as part of the package, I believe they add to the experience. This is why the usual criticisms are the orange/beetroot jellies, margaret marshall's cornet, the liquid nitrogen, hot and cold tea etc. I've said it elsewhere on these boards: my meals there have been superb. And without delicious food as the bedrock, I would have dismissed the gimicky stuff as nonsense and grumbled about Heston spending more time getting the basics right. Example: the first time I had the bacon and egg ice cream, it was served as a simple quenelle on the pain perdu. This was way back in 2000. I thought it tasted fantastic. Last year, the ice cream is made tableside, with liquid nitrogen, egg shells etc. It still tasted fantastic, but the preparation added to the experience. However, if the ice cream had been awful to start with, then I would have been far more critical of the gimmickry. This is in stark contrast to my meal at El Bulli last year. In my opinion, the contemporary new techniques failed to improve on traditional preparations. Frozen egg yolk pellets were poured on to a warm plate and melted into runny egg yolk. But it didn't taste any better than an ordinary runny yolk. What was the point? So bringing this back on topic, is the magic water in a pursuit of "great food"? Doubt it. It certainly isn't about the taste. I for one can't get excited about water in any form. It's just another element of the experience. And as long as the food tastes good, then why not? Every time I have been to the Duck, the smiles in the room outnumbered the scowls. Zoticus, if you hate the food, then you'll hate the extra stuff. But I don't think I've ever heard a specific criticism of the food from you. Just that you don't like it, before saying Heston's a "tosser", or something similar. When did you go? What did you have? Did you think everything was bad? I find it difficult to see how anyone can fail to find the oyster, the quail/pea/langoustine and the foie gras cherry dishes delicious. But that's subjectivity for you.

I second Etxebarri. I went to Mugaritz and Etxebarri on my last trip to San Sebastien, and both were wonderful. Pictures are on the boards somewhere. Also went to Arzak, and was a little disappointed (mostly because I had a phenomenal meal there the year before).

Did you make it? Hope it was worth the wait.

I posted this before, but it got whisked off to the France forum: The problem with introducing "bistro food" (or whatever you want to call it) as a "category", is that it is essentially simplified (edited from "dumbed down uncomplicated" to avoid causing offence) French food. So you will have two restaurants, both grounded in French technique, both with a star, but vastly different in quality of innovation/ingredient/technique (eg arbutus v tom aikens). The fact that one is cheaper than the other should make no difference - as far as michelin are concerned, that is what the bib gourmand is there for. This is different from having chinese or indian as a category - the best in those category really are the best of that kind of cuisine, and there is no dumbing down involved. In fact, they can be quite sophisticated - Hakkasan, Rasoi, Nobu etc I suppose bistros are not to blame - perhaps this all started when gastropubs were awarded a star. So yes, you can create a new category and defend a star on the basis that the restaurant is the best in it, but the more new categories you create, the further you get from the quality people expect from a starred restaurant. Of course, "chippies" will never be such a category, which shows that the line has to be drawn somewhere, but I find it difficult to view categories like "bistro" (and therefore the restaurants therein) as true "michelin" restaurants. I for one applaud the current trend in London dining. But for those who use michelin as their benchmark, and who perhaps aren't used to the London scene, will find the level of sophistication they find at Arbutus/Wild Honey quite a shock.

It'll catch on there soon Scott, mark my words. As for "complicated", I doubt that Anthony Demetre would describe the food he cooks at Arbutus as just as "complicated" as the food he cooked at Putney Bridge. In fact, in an interview a while back, he said: "Because the food is a lot simpler than at Putney Bridge, we're up to speed in the kitchen and we can serve three courses easily within the hour."

OK, how would you describe it? Bistro food is grounded in French cuisine, but uses less complicated techniques and cheaper ingredients. It wasn't intended to be derogatory, merely comparative.

Host's Note This is split off from a discussion of the 2008 Michelin in the UK that originated on that forum. John Talbott The problem with introducing "bistro food" (or whatever you want to call it) as a "category", is that it is essentially dumbed down uncomplicated French food.

I have never as much of a problem as other people - I always wade through around 20 minutes of constant redialling and then I get through. It happened yesterday in fact... And at 10.40 they still had two tables for 6 on a Friday night! How long are you trying for? Persevere!

What made you think it was going to be Michel Roux? Slight step up from Torode...

You are not alone. And of course, there's always the possibility of ordering an additional starter for the middle of the table if it is simply impossible to choose... Upsets the "flow" of the dinner, blah blah blah... But I can't help it.

I want to like le champignon sauvage, I really do. From the reports, the photos and the style, it sounds right up my street. But I've been twice, and the meals weren't two star level, let alone 3. Therefore, in my mind, it is simply NOT a three star restaurant. Of all the restaurants in England I've been to, only the Fat Duck fits that bill. I'm looking forward to Sat Bains in a couple of months, but I very much doubt it will hit that level. On the last two visits, RHR disappointed. Whether michelin agree is another matter. My wishes that will not come true: RHR demoted (only because I think it genuinely deserves 2* and it would give the empire a kick up the arse) The Waterside also demoted - nobody EVER talks about this place. For the gavroche 3* supporters - have you been to the Waterside and do you think it deserves 3*? I don't, based on last year's visit. I had a lovely time, beautiful setting, but the food isn't the top of the pile. I might add, I have only been to le Gavroche for lunch. Great deal, fun place, but the food struck me as very watered down (from what I have seen on the dinner carte). The comments here suggest it really merits the full blown experience. Leaving my wishes aside, predictions: New 2* Greenhouse Hibiscus - not really new, but new location New 1* Wild Honey (if Arbutus got it, then why not WH? I like both restaurants, but don't think either is 1* standard. But consistency should dictate WH gets a star) Anthony's - please finally? Ducasse - if he got in there early enough, because of who he is Aiden Byrne - nothing but praise, wasted in that room Theo Randall - not based on my (disappointing) dinner but based on his track record? Sake no Hana must be too late, and early reports are disappointing anyway. Matt, Umu 2*? Based on personal opinion or consensus? My meal there was inconsistent and ordinary. Difficult to set the bar with Japanese cooking but nothing in my mind was 2*. Tim, there is always bitching about Michelin, but the debate usually rages about a few outsiders in each category. On the whole, I think the majority of the (hundreds of) 1* restaurants would be accepted by most. Likewise, even with the 2*. For me, the 3* award in England is the problem. The Waterside was nowhere near 3* for me. Ramsay used to be, it really did. I used to rave and rave about that place. But it no longers hits the mark, and michelin are always slow to recognise decline; it is far easier to gain than to lose. But following the moves in France (Taillevant etc) perhaps Michelin will get rough over here? The consumers deserve it.

It was wonderful. Absolutely brilliant. I agree with RDB - the reactions of Richard E Grant were pure astonishment. Which is why the atmosphere at the FD is so fun - everyone is smiling and enraptured. But I'm still not sure the main dish and dessert were THAT inventive - the goose preparation was similar to his pigeon dish on the FD tasting menu and the dessert was pretty much bacon and egg ice cream but with reindeer milk and mincemeat pain perdu. That said, the starter and sorbet were incredibly inventive, and it was fascinating to see him put all the courses together at the last minute. I know what you mean Bapi - when I have food that good I just want to go back. Last time, I swapped in 4 dishes from the a la carte. I'm running out of dishes to try! But I do think his approach gives better results for the first time visitor, in stark contrast to el Bulli, where it felt that the pressure to come up with something new every year created a menu of novelty, with very little that actually tasting good. I have a table at the FD for 6 for dinner on 16 Feb. I can't wait.