Vadouvan

It's expensive to go to cooking school, photography school or Wine school. You charge money and waste a lot of food,paper and wine. That is the point if you are charging. People dont learn with placebos. Lets call a spade a spade..... The real issue here is a "mixology school" using real booze would almost certainly have to get a liquor license which costs at least $75 grand not to mention the inventory of booze to practice with. This is just a way of doing it on the cheap with minimal capital. It's BS. There are bartending schools that use real booze, not many in PA because of your liquor laws which somehow manage to be bothe arcane and archaic.

The intrinsic and insurmountable problem with the whole Idea of a mixology class that doesnt actually use real spirits is that it has no basis for feedback that in essence it is 95% a waste of time. You may learn all the attributes that makes you a good bartender such as speed, prioritizing and multi-tasking but ultimately you have zero basis to determine if the product you are making is good. The ONLY way to determine if a drink is good is to taste it. Without taste there is Nothing. Smoking Mirrors. I do applaud the owners of the concept for coming up with what is in essence the perfect crime.

That's doesnt even sound right..... 1 city has as many pastry chefs than the rest of the entire continental USA ? Could you explain the logic of those numbers please....

Use Parmesan Cheese. Parmesan rinds do not taste like parmesan cheese.

Who could be possibly more qualified to discuss APPLES than TARTETATIN.............

Precisely the point, not to get off topic but in the old days our founding fathers compromised and had an amendment to the constitution to allow the right to bear arms, I cant imagine they evisioned people running around the streets with Glocks, AK-47's amd Mk10s. The correlation and substantive issue I was raising there is how law is translated "within the pace of technology." I may actually agree with you bob but we arent on the court of appeals......

That isnt the point Mike. I think we all agree that people do engage in Illegal activity, this scenario isnt to establish truth on the part of the laptp owner, it assumes the laptop was actually there (which is reasonable) and thus we want to see the finer points of how the restaurant ends up assuming custody and legal liability....

Good stuff Tom. I guess the laws just have to catch up with technology. the argument could then be further made that the contents of the hard drive could be of high value depending on the profession of the owner of the computer, say a photo-editor or music related stuff like Philadining. By the way did you ever meet Art Kaplan the Bioethics guy when you were at Penn ? Interesting fellow.....

So what you are saying in legalese Tom is that... The contents of the bag (assuming they fit) isnt the issue but does the modern model allow for the fact that this was a backpack specifically constructed for Laptop computers which vary in price. Is anything within the bag covered and what determines "reasonable", what may be reasonable to me may not be to you ?

Actually Jeff it's the parents fighting at the little league games now while the kids watch in horror...

As I recall Doc just the bag but then the legal ramifications of the bag's content's complicates things. BUT you can always hear when people are walking on eggshells, someone obviously looked in the bag as soon as it was found. I am just interested in the legal issues not to crucify anyone. Liability is a delicate art....

Actually Jeff.. Kretch and I were discussing it a month ago over drinks in person and we never posted it till yesterday. I only posted to see opinions not embarass the restaurant, free speech can be exercised with caution. The decision to replace was made prior to my post but I was co-incidentally informed of it. EG had nothing to do with the decision. There is already a website for that kind of behaviour, it's called shamelessrestaurants.com......

I know, didnt want to Rat you out. Thanks for the offer, do make sure its the day you are in the mood for Perse...haha. Seriously seems like you need attorneys for every nitty gritty detail these days.....

Tom I see you are getting your money's worth out of Tulane. See you in New york indeed... Does this mean you are buying lunch .......?

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to post your thoughtful comments, in particular Fat Guy, Jeff L. Before I continue, here are a few facts. To those who sent thier condolences by PM, Thanks but it actually didnt happen to me. Unfortunately as Jeff L. Holmes suspects, the story is not "hypothetical". This actually happened to a good friend of mine at a very high profile establishment that is raking in $$$$ like leaves in Vermont in october. He sought my advice and opinion and essentially I think his computer should be replaced. I am not going to name the restaurant unless either he explicitly allow's me to. Let me explain. How much $$$$$ the restaurant makes is besides the point, just a fact to note. Lancastermike......I am with you on the passing the buck attitude that many in our society seem to have these days but it's a bit different. For clarity lets call the owner of the laptop Jack. The basic crux of Jacks story is the restaurant did find his computer and then it disappeared. That information was conveyed to him. I would assume that if indeed they admitted that much, it's kinda lame to say "yes we found it but it's gone". Jack actually feels bad and loves the restaurant but he loves his laptop too and wants it back. There is no question that the restaurant can basically pick up the phone, call Springboard Media and have the replacement computer walked over within 30 minutes. End of story. There does seem to be some resistance and they are "resesarching insurance issues". I happen to think in the scope of restaurant potential litigation, this is like the fender-bender when two really nice guys have a car accident, they dont call the cops or thier insurance companies, exchange information and they hammer out a deal BECAUSE it isnt worth the hassle or DEDUCTIBLES......jeez. Funny enough, late breaking news and I kid you not, the restaurant conceded politely and is replacing it. About 6-8 weeks total time from loss to replacement. I guess this finishes the thread but It opens up the question of how liability is assumed if you have a bad "lost and Found" policy in a restaurant. And $1500 isnt even an expensive laptop as Philadining will attest to ......

Let's say one cool Philadelphia evening I decide I am in the mood for some Tempranillo and I decide to go to a particular restaurant. I have some delicious food, great drinks, see a lot of friends...........essentially a great time. Such a great time that it occurs to me when I get home that I absentmindedly left my backpack on the hooks underneath the bar. I was having a jovial evening and perhaps a bit buzzed but not wasted, just forgetfull Vitis Vinifera buzz At this point, I call the restaurant and they are closed. I would consider it a minor loss except inside the first flap of my backpack is an Apple Macintosh I-Mac G4. Next day I go to the restaurant just before they open and Inquire about my bag, in my discussions with the "staff" it is established that employees of the restaurant indeed found my bag and put it in the "office" for safekeeping ostensibly till identity of the owner was established. Lets call this the 1st recovery. Here comes the dilemma.... It is also established later in that conversation that subsequent to that 1st recovery, backpack and computer disappear again and are never to be found like Jimmy Hoffa. 1. Should i suck it up, change my last name to Dumas and fork out $1500 for another computer because it intrinsically was my responsibility for forgeting the bag in the first place even though there is an established 1st recovery by the restaurant. OR 2. Restaurant should replace my computer since they found it and it was "stolen" from thier office I welcome your thoughts.......

Explain please....... ?

I cuncur. Indeed rumor has it they will have outdoor seating too. Speaking of Rosato I cany wait to see what Marc and Jeff M will do with tomatoes when they are in season again..... Waiting for some Buratta action at Osteria.....

oh yeah i forgot the answer should be phrased as a question, jeopardy contestants make that mistake all the time..... and the answer is... Who is ______ !

The best outdoor dining spot... If you were on Jeopardy on TV, the question would be.. "What is the code name of James Bond's immediate Boss" Hint : Dame Judi Dench.

Can anyone explain to me the point of reposting pictures that are two replies away, I see this all the time and I dont get it, it just makes the thread confusing and loads the page slowly.....! Here are my thoughts Mr Gordon. First of all the dinner was spectacular again, simply outstanding pastas. Regarding the wine, one of the reasons i will never return to Tria again is this "dessert wine bias" that a lot of restaurants seem to engage in. Not to go off thread from Osteria but it's a relative issue, say you walk into a place and order a bunch of cheeses that work with sweet wine, why should you be served half the volume of any other wine ? There is no reason. It's bullshit. Unless it is the stickiest Pedro Ximenez or Emilio Lustau,Ports and such. http://www.emilio-lustau.com/ http://www.pedroximenez.com/index_ing.htm The concept of the tiny dessert wine glass is simply a crime and if one orders a glass of any of the following, IMO you should get a standard pour. You are paying the standard price. Sauternes Barsac Pineau de Charentes Loupiac Jurancon Monbazillac Recioto Soave Banyuls Muscats like Rivesaltes, St Jean de Minervois, Baumes de Venise Which brings us back to Moscato D'Asti... http://www.epicurious.com/drinking/wine/be...it_pied_muscato David The argument at Osteria was that Moscato is a dessert wine which is clearly not the case. In fact, it primarily is an aperitif that works well as a dessert wine. It's a sweet sparkling wine and should be poured as any other sparkling wine Regardless of that when a customer walks in and orders a glass of Moscato to start, it *clearly* is an aperitif therefore the logic that we will only pour you half a glass because we classify it as a dessert is absurd. If anything Italians dessert wines tend to be more Vin Santos and Recioto Soave type wines. Moscato also isnt expensive at all so the cost issue ends up looking really chintzy. Now I go to Mooore bros and get my wine, downtown for my cheese and have a good time. This in no way affects my interest in Osteria, I fully intend to return several times, I dont even think the restaurant has solidified it's footing yet and most of the food is spectacular.

Ferky, long time no see. How's your Mum ? Osteria. Read the thread below.

Counsellor.... Looking foward to eating with you in NY this summer. Back to the books..... I picked that book because it was probably the best ever in explaining that concept of how authentic Southeast asian flavors are composed.... I am sure everyone has thier faves but the criteria for me is the contribution or inspiration to the interest in cooking and substantive content. There are so many books out there but there are few that are done really well. It would be really hard to sublimate down to 10 definitive books but there are a few books that capture your attention every now and then. With that said...in no particular order of importance. 1. White Heat Marco Pierre White. The book that got so many serious cooks interested in food in the first place. http://www.vonl.com/chips/whiteht.htm 2. Recipes from Le Manoir Aux Quat' Saisons. Raymond Blanc. out of print. 3.Jean Louis, Cooking with the Seasons. Jean Louis Palladin. http://www.amazon.ca/Jean-Louis-Cooking-Se...n/dp/0934738491 One of the greates chefs in America of all time. The food in this book still stands up to today's culinary shenanigans depite the fact it was published in 1989. Sadly his death was largely ignored in the news because in happened in very close time proximity to the 9-11 attacks in 2001. 4.Kaiseki Yoshihiro Murata http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/477...ractiveda495-20 5.La Base and La Produit Filip Verheyden http://www.amazon.fr/base-Filip-Verheyden/dp/9077695028 Unfortunately in french, unless you speak french, works for me. Beautifully done. 6.La Livre de Michel Bras. Michel Bras. Out of print but choc full of soooo much information and inspiration. It makes you just want to go out and start planting a garden. 7.El Bulli 2003 2004 Ferran Adria http://www.amazon.com/El-Bulli-2003-2004-F...76587868&sr=8-1 Just Amazing. Redefines Cookbook Composition. 8.Le Grand Livre de Cuisine Alain Ducasse. http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Livre-cuisine-...76587949&sr=1-1 Tooooooooooons of inspiration and a window into the master. 9.Professional Charcuterie Marcel Cottenceau, Jean-Francois Deport, Jean- Pierre Odeau http://www.chipsbooks.com/prochar.htm Best book ever on Charcuterie, Salumi, Sausage, Pate, Foie Gras fabrication. If you were to allow one more I would say the French Laundry Cookbook. These are obviously highly specialized books but I would add that anyone who aspires to cook anything at some point should buy books by.. Paula Wolfert especially the cooking of Southwest France. Marcela Hazan Alice Waters The Best Recipe by Cooks Illustrated.

Jan. When a restaurant say's "housemade" it sorta seems silly to qualify that they actually cooked.....

Sir Big I am no expert in sauce making but i vaguely remember from my amateur chef classes at LCB that whole process of Veal Stock + Espagnole reduce by half = Demiglace. Was that Escoffier's original process or was it Careme ? Any CIA grads wanna share ? I made it once 10 years ago and it was a pain in the ace but dude..that heavy bordelaise was outstanding.