macrosan

Only at eGullet could 8 allegedly grown-up people post 16 messages on the subject of washing sponges. No wonder this site ranks #52 in the Chef2Chef poll. No wonder we kicked the butt of the Jerky-of-the-Month Club.

Winner of the George Orwell Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad, So Let's Split the Difference Award

If it was a male turkey, I guess the bison wouldn't notice. If it was the other way round, I guess the turkey would be ... well ... kinda dead. I had bison years ago at a restaurant near Pittsfield, MA which specialized in weird meats. They also had kangaroo, alligator and ostrich, as I remember. The bison was tasteless and stringy, but it looked a great walnut-brown color on the plate. Tommy, I think I have that video.... (Edited by macrosan at 3:08 pm on Jan. 3, 2002)

Yeah, I think so, Steven. The essence of use of a sponge is that you suck the liquid you're mopping up, and the bacteria and dirt that are contained therein, into the centre of the sponge. No way can this be extracted by a washing machine OR a dishwasher. All you're doing is cleaning the outside, so the dirt that oozes out of the centre after you've removed it from the dishwasher has a nice clean surface to adhere to :) If you're talking about plastic sponges, I'd throw them away. If they're real sponges, I'd leave them in running hot water for a while, squeeze them out very hard, and repeat that a few times. Of course, using real sponges isn't very eco-friendly....

Come on Steven, tell us where this is different from your (now) famous latkes :) It's interesting that Wilfrid makes rosti with carrots and parsnips (sounds terrific) whereas latkes tend to contain onion or radish. But I guess the grating/drying/cooking process is identical. And the critical part is definitely in the detail, like how and to what size you grate, how you dry, and the speed at which you cook.

You're seriously confused, Frank. You said "(France) may well overtake Britain's record" but you've misread the headline which says "FRANCE SET TO OVERTAKE BRITAIN IN NEW BSE MAD COW CASES". See that word "NEW" Frank? What this means is that the number of new cases being reported weekly in France will soon be higher than the number of new cases being reported weekly in Britain. Got the idea, Frank? The chances of France EVER overtaking Britain on a cumulative basis is miniscule. You also said "Could it be that in France they actually have similar hygiene problems to those of other countries in the care of their livestock?". Frank, maybe nobody explained this to you, but BSE is not caused by bad hygiene. It is caused by feeding livestock with certain meat products. And what do you mean by "other countries" ? Are you suggesting that other countries than Britain (which counts as one country in my mathematical convention) have had a significant BSE problem ? Do you know something that none of us knows ? Yet another quote out of the franklanguage compendium "BSE is a horrible way to die." Well, ummm, no Frank, unless you're sympathising with cows, that is. People don't die of BSE, they die of New Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease which is contracted primarily as a result of eating meat infected with BSE. The total number of deaths worldwide from nvCJD is about 120 in the 5 years since the disease was documented, which is less people than die from being stung by bees. As a matter of interest, the ORIGINAL CJD has been known about for 80 years, and in the last 20 years nearly 5,000 people in the USA died of it. The cause of CJD is largely unknown. Frank, if you're going to post scaremongering stories, at least try to get your facts straight.

OK, how about mashed potato? I love it and hate it. The variety of textures and flavours that chefs seem able to produce, quite independent of the underlying potato, is phenomenal. I love the creamy yet chunky texture, but I hate the watery ultra-smooth.

As I said in a different context in another thread, this is what I love about eGullet --- the totally different expert perspectives, all with equal validity. This is what makes food such a joyous experience, that there is not necessarily right or wrong, better or worse; there is just debate and difference and pleasure in both. It was not I who referred to "yumminess" but I rather wish I had :)

Someone gave me a present of a boxed bottle of Nuits-St-Georges 1er Cru, La Richemone, 1992 for my birthday last year. It looks wonderful in its wooden brass-clasped box, and it came from one of the top wine merchants in London. The question is - is this a great wine, a good wine, or none of the above ? And should I be drinking it now, or waiting? It says "mise en bouteille a la Propriete par A. Pernin-Rossin" at the bottom. What is "the property"? Is that the same as a "chateau"?

OK, I have to eat crow (does anyone have a good recipe for braised crow, or something?). I posted here a while back that eGullet doesn't have the traffic to make any serious impact on this poll. But when this thread started we were #94 and now we're #59 --- FIFTY-NINE for heavens sake. Today #59, tomorrow the world......

The worrying aspect of Euro-Harminisation is not the names that are allowed (or not) to be given to certain foods. I happen to prefer Terry's (English) dark 'chocolate' to any Belgian 'chocolate' and I really don't mind if the Euro-Foodpolice insist on calling it chocorama or spindlegook. People buy a particular 'chocolate' not because it is or isn't made from cocoa, or does or doesn't contain milk, but because they like the taste. And consumers are quite capable of differentiating between products without help from a European Commission ;) The real problem is the one discussed in the last half dozen posts, that a bunch of petty bureaucrats who try to justify their salaries by dreaming up new food regulations are actually going to destroy some wonderful food products by making them illegal. Consumers will have less choice, and plastic will prevail over real food. But this is the way of Europeanisation, sadly. I have some sympathy for Peter's view that this all started in the USA, but even if so, that is no justification for what Europe will do. I disagree with Margaret's comment that "France IS different". I believe that France politically aspires to be like, and then to surpass, America in all that America does. "Vive la difference" is a dead phrase, and France is no longer a bastion of cultural protection and development. Britain has now assumed that mantle, and perhaps all those wonderful French cottage industries will move to Britain in order to escape the European shackles. ...hmmm....what's the English for Brie and Roquefort....

LOL Jason. Heaven alone knows what you mean by "...if the currency unification project succeeds", because sure as eggs is eggs, no-one else does :) When Texas secedes, America apologises for slavery, and #### freezes over, Britain (not England, by the way) may just join the Eurozone. I disagree with your economic and cultural assessments of the effect of the Euro. The real effects will go far beyond your imagination, and to even risk that in exchange for helping American tourists to calculate prices a bit more easily....:(

I'm also opposed to the Euro on political, philosophical, economic and practical grounds, but that's surely not "on topic" ;) I think the issue is contained in Bux's comments about 'obstacles' to international travel. Those obstacles helped to create a mystique about foreign countries, and helped to reinforce their 'differentness' from our own. Currency was always one of the lesser obstacles, as compared with language, culture, geography and travel. But the loss in mainland Europe of the currency difference is, I believe, the thin end of a much larger wedge. The next harmonisation will be politics, closely followed by culture. Then will come language (Esperanto is sitting waiting in the wings !!!). This process of Europeanisation saddens me, as much for countries like Holland, Spain and Italy as for France.

I think this is a great thread --- even greater than Adam Balic's Bio Cabrales, you've certainly sparked a debate and provoked some fascinating insights. I have to admit that the idea of asking a chef to cook a whole off-menu meal would never have occurred to me. Before this thread, I would have been terified even to ask !!! I find remarkable the thought that a chef would actually ENJOY the opportunity of doing this. I have just GOT to try it at the earliest opportunity. ...I hope I don't get kicked out... :)

That sums up the issue perfectly for me. That's what would make GT the sort of place I'd want to go to, and Le Cirque the sort of place I wouldn't. btw Steve, Michael Winner regularly describes how he jumps other people's reservations at 'smart' restaurants around the world, and then offers to pay for them to have a free meal as 'compensation'. Winger may be a pompous ass (well OK, Winger IS a pompous ass) but I don't think he's a liar. That may not be common, but if a restaurant can ALWAYS find a table for a celebrity, unless they really do leave several tables vacant, how else can they do that without bumping someone?

I want to talk about fried Christmas pud. Is that OK in this tightly-controlled highly-focussed thread ? Fried in brandy butter (or just brandy works) absolutely yes. Cannot and must not under any circymstances be served alone. Real, home-made, stand-your-spoon-upright-in-it custard is essential (plus a little more brandy if you like). And this whole miraculous dish (fried pud + custard) is even better served COLD. Even better than bread pudding. Now who would have thought THAT was possible ?

That's interesting, Steve, that you see a difference between the US and European attitude to "special orders". Two occasions that I recall that I tried that in NYC were when I asked for grilled halibut instead of the meuniere on the menu at a fish restaurant on 57th whose name escapes me, and for a roast duck dish without the bacon offered on the menu, and with a sauce other than the plum offered, at Lutece. Both times the waiter had to ask the chef, but both times I was offered a choice of alternative sauces. Have I been unusually lucky ? I have to say that one of the things I've always liked about eating in the USA is the much better appreciation there of the need for customer service (better than the UK, that is). I have to admit that in a "great chef" restaurant, I'd be more inclined to take what's on the menu, on the basis that he knows more about food than I do, and one of the reasons I'm there is to try something different and better :) Incidentally, I understand your "favored status" as being a convenience for you if you eat out a lot, and therefore probably don't book in advance a lot. But do you get a kick out of being able to to get a reservation when others can't? And do you approve of me, say, having my advance reservation cancelled by the restaurant so you can get yours?

I enjoy ordering off-item menus, and do so regularly. If a dish is offered with a sauce that I don't favor, I ask for an alternative sauce. If I prefer other than the menu-offered accompaniments, I ask for them. If there is something on the dinner menu that I prefer to anything on the lunch menu, I ask for it. Most times that I order pasta at an Italian restaurant, I ask for my own invented dish. I have never had a problem with any of these requests at any decent restaurant I ever visit. It's not special treatment, it's something called "service". Of course, sometimes what I'm asking for can't be done, but they just tell me that and I'll accept it. The mere THOUGHT that anyone would do this simply so that other diners in the restaurant would be impressed is frankly laughable. I would never knowingly go to a restaurant which allows celebrity or favored customers to make reservations unavailable to other customers. The Ivy in London is notorious for this, and I simply would not go there on principle. There are plenty of better restaurants which have an honest and unambiguous approach to their customers. I concur with your third point, however. Of course I tend to expect a warmer welcome, and more careful and knowledgeable attention from restaurants where I am a regular customer. I expect them to know where I like to sit, what water I like, what type of coffee, etc. And little touches like "Did you enjoy your holiday", "We have a new duck dish on the menu which you might like", and so on, all help my customer experience. This is no different from any company which has a proper customer relations concept. I get the same attention in principle from my barber and my car maintenance garage. I think all you're saying, Cabrales, is that elitism and snobbery exist in the restaurant industry as much as in every other walk of life. I have no time for those attitudes in any environment.

Not being a bubbly fan, I'm lining up some wine bottles. I have a half-case of 1989 Chateau Tracey (a white wine I have enjoyed for many years), a bottle of Pauillac (a recent birthday gift in a Fortnum&Mason wooden case which I haven't even opened yet) and a half-case of Lirac (another unopened gift). I've never even heard of Lirac, but I'm assured by the donor (whose judgement I trust) that I'll like the wine. So that's 13 bottles so far, now I need to go look at my reserve stock in the garage :)

Sadly, I haven't yet had a chance to visit ADNY, but I have of course followed the media debate :) The problem in that debate is exemplified by Steven's oxymoronic phrase "the food intelligentsia". There is nothing intellectual about gastronomy except in the minds of media people who wish to elevate their own status. Food is about art, and culture, and hedonism (and to a limited extent science and technology). The people I want to tell me about food are those who understand the art and the culture etc, and/or who enjoy good food in the way I do, and who can express that understanding and enjoyment. I do not heed self-serving highbrows writing at the rate of 6 adjectives per noun, with no word of less than 4 syllables, trying to out-perform their rivals' invective, who are more interested in winning a Pulitzer Prize than informing me whether or not I should try eating at a particular restaurant.

Wilfrid, you're right. There was a major study done of the Mediterranean countries (France, Italy, Spain) which covered the total diet. The study concluded that the combination of red wine, olive oil and garlic in diet was highly beneficial to the cardiovascular system. A further study was done in France only, specifically looking at the issue of red wine consumption, and concluded that it was beneficial in itself as described in the original post to this thread. Of course it did NOT investigate the detrimental effects such as gout and the possible causal link between alcohol consumption and smoking. However, we don't wish to know that, do we :)

I have now ;) I will do as instructed this afternoon. I wasn't even aware of the messaging facility before. Ahhh, you learn something new every day at eGullet

Did anyone else read Michael Winger's piece in yesterday's Sunday Times? He says GR is a great man, describes the main course he had as very poor, commends the restaurant to his plebeian readers, and confirms he will stick to GR at Chelsea Winger believes that he has eaten in all the expensive restaurants in the world, ergo he must understand and appreciate good food :) But in fact his only basis for measurement of a restaurant is a combination of its alleged exclusivity, the fame or notoriety of the chef or owner, and the size of the bill. His column is fun to read occasionally (unless you actually want an intelligent review of a restaurant) but I think the associated letters column is becoming more interesting.

I thought I read this headline in the business section of the Sunday Times : Conran to quit restaurant business. "Excellent" says food buff Majumdar. I know a golf magazine which invites subscribers to test new equipment and play and review course; and a motoring magazine which invites subscribers to test drive new cars for a month. Now if Restaurant would do that for restaurant reviews, I will definitely subscribe :)

France is a nation heavily committed to smoking, and will probably ban restaurants rather than be forced (by the EEC) to have no smoking in restaurants :) I'm an ex-smoker, but I totally support free choice on the matter. When I smoked, I would never light a cigarette in a restaurant without asking the diners at adjacent tables "Would you prefer that I don't smoke?". (The question "Do you object to my smoking" is unsatisfactory, because it almost demands a polite answer of "NO" ). Actually, if tables were close together, I just wouldn't smoke anyway. I'm entirely happy with the current norm in the USA and UK to have separated smoking/non areas, and now that I'm a non-smoker I won't sit in a smoking area, because I just don't enjoy the food as much. In Cyprus recently, I went into a smart restaurant, was conducted to a table and asked the maitre d' "Is this smoking or non-smoking?". He shrugged his shoulders :) On the subject of dogs in restaurants, I have no problems in principle, but I can understand non-dog-lovers objecting on the basis that the dog might have fleas, or be unclean. My view of that is that a human being might equally qualify under either condition :) And Bux, I entirely agree with you. In Australia, new legislation does offer bar/restaurant workers the same rights as office workers. That will spread to the UK and USA within a few years, I guess.