macrosan

We definitely need a "Jewish" Forum at eGullet. It would probably best go between "Cooking" and "Adventure in Eating", and would need a committee of Discordinators (maybe 25 would be sufficient).

Ah, now you're talking REAL grammar. To nosh (vb) To eat, more commonly to snack Nosh (nn) that which is noshed Nosh (nn) a nice child, as in "She's a nosh" Nosher (nn) One who noshes Derivation: Abbr. for NOuriSH Verbal conjugation (singular): I can't nosh, I'm on diet Nosh, darling, you look so thin She noshes all the time, look at the size of her

I assume those Frenchies are bakers ? Why oh why, Steve, do you need celebrity names to prove a point about a national trends ? I mean, how many Frenchman eat bread baked by those four guys ? 50million, 30million, 1million ? No, you tell me the French equivalent of Boswell's, Brown's Bakery, Horsted Fram Bakery, and then we're talking business. The invitation was already in the mail, but it's not too late to change the menu. We have a Domino's Pizza just round the corner

Now what the heck is "the noun family" ? I mean, are we talking words here, or are we talking the whol of English grammar? If it's the whole grammar thing, for heaven's sake don't let Plotnicki post in this thread --- it could get longer than the AB Bio. And I still don't have an answer to my question. Is there such a verb as "to appetize" ? Even in Jewish-immigrant-speak ???

That really is two bridges too far. First you get all coy and refuse to admit you DO believe English bread is inferior, then a few sentences later you forget you said that and disclose your prejudice. But more important, you throw your whole argument into confusion by bringing in the totally subjective and anachronistic opinion that French bread is better than English. I have no hesitation in expressing the view that French bread is second in appallingness only to American bread. The worst bequest of the French to the culinary world is the baguette. This is cotton wool with a crust, nothing more. French paysanne bread is generally doughy, over-crusty and often tasteless. I'm obviously totally excluding any of the mass-produced supermarket breads from this discussion. They are equally insipid in every country of the world where they're made. English bread is varied in flavour and texture, and quality for quality, far outstrips French bread in every respect. But the best bread in the world surely is made in Denmark.

Wow, now I am impressed. I thought if anyone was going to reply, it would be Plotnicki

What a good question Theoretically, it should be the present participle (therefore an adjectival form) of the verb "to appetize", as of course would be the nouns appetite and appetizer. However, there appears to be no such verb as "appetize". Something is definitely wrong here, and we may be obliged to strike all these commonly accepted words from the English language forthwith. Which of course doesn't mean they can't be used by Jewish delis

... and surely that's the whole point. There are at least 16million hypothetical causes of the current state of British food. We haven't even started to talk about the weather, global warming, the abdication of King Edward, Queen Victoria's love-affairs with India and Scotland, the loss of the colony of America, Robert Burns' Ode to the Haggis, the importation of the potato from the West Indies, smoking, Chinese and Indian immigration .... ...I could go on, yawn .... An argument could be made for any of these, just as strong as the conspiracy theory. Personally, I think it's just an accident of history and culture. What really matters to me is that there are clear indications of improvement in the last 20 years. Long may that continue.

I used to visit the greater Dublin area for about 6 weeks a year until 10 years ago, so my views may be out of date. I always found the general standard of food good. Restaurants varied from the unpretentious 'local' style, offering a small number of fairly simple and traditional dishes, to the typical 'higher-class' restaurant that you would find in England. I ate at many restaurants in Dublin, and in those days the best was arguably The Bailey, which specialised in game, and was famous for the James Joyce door on the landing. The food was excellent. I don't know if it's still there. Other top-class restaurants were at hotels like Jury's and The Shelbourne, although they had patchy reputations. I often ate at mid-range restaurants in Howth and Curragh, and other country areas within 30 miles of Dublin. What I remember most about these was the hospitality, and the freshness of the ingredients, and the almost universal home-baked bread. Friends who take regular golfing trips to Galway and other rural parts of Eire tell me that that their best meals are had in pubs. Again, freshness of ingredients and hospitality are the things they highlight. I hope to be going on such a golf hliday in May, and if I do, I shall certainly report back.

While I accept the necessity of freezing food, I have yet to find any food which doesn't taste worse for being frozen. I find the taste is blander, and in many foods the texture gets like cardboard. My worst foods for this are fish, chicken, and bread, plus just about any cooked food. Does anyone think freezing can improve certain foods ? (No, Tommy, you're NOT allowed to say ice-cream)

Hey, maybe I could actually get to know something about wine if I stayed around here long enough Thanks for that, Chris. Now the question is --- am I entitled to send back this petillant Beaujolais simply because I don't like my wine that way ? I understand that GT are happy to do that but what about a restaurant that has a less amenable policy ? BTW are you saying that any wine may come out of the bottle 'petillant' or are particular wines specially made to be that way ?

I'm content at this stage to note that it turns out, after all, NOT to be "as simple as that". I happen to agree that the British have attached relatively little importance to cooking in the past 100 years. It now seems to be accepted, maybe even by SteveP, that this has nothing to do with governmental policy or a conspiracy of the upper classes. Is it the result of economics ? Or is it a cultural issue ? And how much of culture is determined by economics ? Now I'm pondering those questions, but if I ever come up with an answer I doubt that it will be "as simple as that".

OK Steve, now I think you are in serious trouble You just described above a system of control of funding, and a system of functional regulation which, as far as I know, has never applied in the history of Britain, and certainly not in the last two centuries. So I deny that could have possibly affected British cuisine. In your original post (quoted by Wilfrid) you described the causes of poor British cuisine as being "as simple as that". I now challenge you to explain those causes SIMPLY

Influenced entirely by the consistency of rave reviews at eGullet, I finally made it to GT. Theoretically, this was a business meeting with a customer, but it turned out that we didn't talk business at all because we each felt it would spoil our enjoyment of the culinary experience. My accountant is now arguing with me about whether I can claim this on expenses I arrived early stood at the bar for 20 minutes drinking a cocktail. This gave me a chance to observe both the bar area and the dining room. I had arrived at 7.40 on Wednesday, and the place was a continuous buzz. Thee bar tables were full with people eating (they seemed mostly to be eating oysters) and the atmosphere was cheerful and noisy. I could see nothing but smiling faces in the bar and the restaurant (always a good sign) and the staff moved around calmly and efficiently. After my guest arrived, we had to wait for a table, because I had specially asked to be served by eGullet's own Christopher. The wait turned out to be worth every minute! What particularly impressed me was the friendly service we got from the bar, the courtesy of passing waitstaff, and the pleasantness of the other customers. And so to the meal, which was a prix fixe $65. Starter was Marinated Hamachi with Roasted Beets and Lemon Vinaigrette, strongly recommended by Chris. This was first-class. Tender and moist, superb flavor, my introduction to a new fish. A glass of Chardonnay was an excellent accompaniment. Main was Roasted Sirloin and Braised Shortribs of Beef with Foie Gras, Bone Marrow, Mustard Greens, Consomme and Potato Gratin. The loin was tender, perfectly cooked and tasty, while the ribs were just a tad on the tough side. The consomme was exceptional, adding a rich tang to the meat which complemented it perfectly. I also loved the potato, but the foie gras got kinda swamped by the rest of the dish even though it was very good. The dessert was fabulous, a Lemon Souffle Tart with Ginger Ice Cream and Lemon Confit. Bless you, Claudia Fleming I had been agonising over the Apple Tatin, and with Chris's assistance it also magically appeared on the table. That too was superb, but after the lemon souffle ..... With the meal we had a bottle of 1999 Liebich Shiraz, selected with Chris's help from a pageful of "spicy reds" in the wine list. It certainly was spicy, and proved an excellent accompaniment to our meal. Service throughout was superb, efficient and unobtrusive. The whole pace of the meal was perfect. I can't even remember what the waitstaff looked like. They seemed to glide to and from our table at exactly the right moments, then disappear as quietly when their job was done. Our captain, Chris, similarly seemed magically to appear whenever I or my guest looked up with raised eyebrows, and he only once insisted on interrupting our conversation (so that he could describe an amuse bouche). Altogether this was a thoroughly enjoyable dining experience. My guest, who had eaten at GT a couple of times previously, commented how much she enjoyed the evening, and how much more she enjoyed it than before, and that was clearly a reflection of the service. So GT is another eGullet success story for me to add to Babbo.

Another interesting thread, but what amazes me is that the thread has not yet succeeded in reaching agreement on the meaning of the question It was, after all, SteveP's question, and it cannot be right that respondents tell him he's asking the wrong question So let me try to define what I believe SteveP is asking, and that has to start with a definition of "French cooking". The reason that French cooking assumed its pre-eminence in the world (I guess in the 19th century) was above all else its assertion that "we live to eat, not just eat to live". The French turned an everday necessity into one of the pleasures of life. They discovered that human beings could obtain joy and entertainment from the process of eating, provided that certain 'values' were added to the food. The 'values' they added were variety of ingredients, mixture of flavors, development of totally new flavors from primary ingredients by means of herbs and spices, creation of different textures in the same ingredients by using different cooking methods. This all gave rise to the demand for higher quality ingredients, and greater variety of dishes. Finally, the French added perhaps their most enduring 'value', which was artistic content in presentation, both of the dish and the environment in which the dish was delivered, that is the crockery, the cutlery, the restaurant with all its ambience. That is what 'French cooking' represents to me. Particular dishes are irrelevant to the concept. And if that is so, then it is clear to me that French cooking does indeed hold a unique position in the cultural history of the Western world. It is equally clear to me that the relevance of French cooking per se to the modern world is much less today than it was 200 years ago, and also less than 20 years ago. In fact it has become continuously less relevant since its inception. The decline of influence and relevance is inevitable, just like the decline of British political influence, or German musical influence, or Italian artistic influence. To pick just one of those, Beethoven's music is eternal, and its influence on all Western music that followed it is immeasurably large. But as Beethoven's music has embedded its principles in future music, and widened its presence in the body of all music, so Beethoven's followers have themselves become the inluencers, and so Beethoven himself has become less directly influential and less relevant to each generation's music. So it is with cuisine. In a thousand years, the elements of 'French cooking' will still be present in the cuisines of the Western world, and maybe the Eastern world too. But those elements will not be recognisably French, they will have transmuted into an appearance of American, or Hungarian, or Italian, or Icelandic....well OK, not Icelandic then This is called progress, the improvement of the old to create the new, then the improvement of the new to create the newer. Who gets the credit? Well now the thread will digress into philosophy or religion

OK, now it's my turn to ask a silly question (get back in line, Tommy). The only time I ever sent a wine back was when it was fizzy, but shouldn't have been (it was a Beaujolais). Actually, the taste wasn't too bad, just a tad sweet. Is that the same as "oxidised" ? I always thought that oxidisation gave wine a "tinny" taste, slightly sour.

I have a regular Saturday night Indian meal at home, but prepared by my local Indian (Pakistani) take-away restaurant. My absolute favorite is a dish I've seen nowhere else, Tandoori Garlic Chilli Chicken which is exactly that --- Tandoori chicken cooked with garlic and green chilli peppers. It's spicy, it's hot, it's delicious. I work my way around their menu, but this seems to get ordered about every second week I have a bread (naan, paratha or puri) with it, and onion salad or mint yoghurt, and often a bhaji (mushroom or sag or bindi). I have yet to steel myself for an Indian ice-cream for dessert but one day ....

Steve, you're right, I reckon you must be a world expert on egos I am certainly content to rely upon Cabrales' adjudication on the result, that's why I lodged the money with Cabrales at La Trouvaille As for jackets at the Dorchester, I've just done a duhhhhh :confused: I misread your post, and thought you'd been to the Savoy Grill (got confused by your reference to Guy Savoy, you see....) I blame jet lag and a dissipation of certain essential brain cells.... :wow:

I had pre-theatre dinner at the Savoy Grill last summer, in a party of 6. I recall the food as being generally unexceptional, but also uncomplainable. My greatest memory is that when one of the party started to take off his jacket (it was VERY hot in the restaurant) he got no further than one arm out before he was accosted by a waiter AND the maitre d' who helped his arm back into the sleeve and told him firmly that jacketlessness was a mortal sin in the Savoy Grill. It's a shame the quality of thier air-conditioning and their food didn't live up to their self-image.

I shall not be wearing my beret. But I will bring some spare glasses, if that helps. Yvonne has told me her cellphone #, so if you see somebody peering at young ladies' foreheads trying to read the tattooed number thereon, that'll be me.

That sounds right to me. My favorite "New Yorker joke" :- Stand-up comic starts his routine in the Comedy Cellar, Greenwich Village. As always, to get the audience warmed up, he points to a man in the audience and asks "Where are you from?" The guy stands up, stabs his finger at the comic, and replies "No, where the f**k are you from ?" New Yorkers aren't "polite", they're generally direct, and without pretension. They expect the same from others. New York is my favorite city in the world because of the people.

I guess you could always try the Bible, Stella :) I don't really want to enter this debate, because I really don't think this is the place ;) but I do want to make one important point to you, Stella. Reading Steven's posts on the subject of Judaism (here and on other threads) it is clear that he is both knowledgeable and open-minded. By contrast (and I mean no offence) I get the impression that jhlurie is less so, and altho he says he has tried not to generalise, it is impossible not to do so in such a discussion, which after all he started. So Stella, if you want to learn more about Judaism, take all that is written here with a pinch of salt. If you want to understand the relationship between Judaism and the State of Israel, first learn about Judaism, the religion and the history, from the sort of books Steven has suggested, and also from the "orthodox" religious books. Judaism is a complex and often mystical religion which many of its voluntary adherents can misunderstand, let alone those who are non-observant or uneducated or involuntary. What you must understand is that discussion by Jews in public (that is, with non-Jews) of Judaism is a fraught exercise, made so by thousands of years of deliberate and accidental persecution. So discussions like these can be very misleading for those who want to acquire knowledge.

Ellery Queen, eat your heart out

Oh Ellen, on behalf of Elizabeth R (Our Queen) and Tony B (Our King) I would like to extend sincere apologies for this outrage. I simply cannot believe that this obsolete quarantine law is being applied to an animal of Momo's celebrity status and impeccable genealogy. Steve P has a British Labour MP in his pocket (ooops, I mean they've met once or twice) and I'm sure the guy would raise the matter in Parliament. In the meantime, if you want to visit our fair shores, you could always leave Sxxxxx behind to look after Mxxx ;)

Right enough, Adam. Even in America, that just counts as a Lake :D (oh boy, this is a legend in the making???) Simon, I think you're overstating. Paris is NOT a grubby city by any standards, and I find the description of "slow" well off the mark. But rude it certainly is, or at least its inhabitants are. Parisians are rude (particularly to foreigners) and arrogant in my experience. They lack the humor and charm to get away with it. If ever you need to ask a Parisian for directions, and are fortunate to get a reply, always go in exactly the opposite direction they tell you :( Personally, I have never cared for its restaurants mainly because of the surliness of service I have received (even in Maxim's) and so they represent no saving grace for me. The old sayings are the best, and someone once said "France is a beautiful country spoiled by its inhabitants". Whoever that was was clearly speaking about Paris, because I've always found the rest of the country very pleasant, specially the South of France. Paris is indeed a beautiful city, with much to admire in its architecture, history, design and environment. But people count for more, much more. And that is why I prefer most other cities of the world.