H. du Bois

Kar-mel vs. kar-a-mel is a regional pronunciation, one of the tags that linguists can use to peg where you grew up. Kar-mel (complete with flat A) is a northern thing, and the mellifluous kar-a-mel is from the south. (I grew up with kar-mel, but have adopted the latter, because it's pretty).

Geez, I've been to Cincinnati a couple of times, and didn't eat anything there that seemed regional enough to spawn an entire restaurant menu - not that it couldn't happen. Loved the town, though. And I remember the "please" bit - it always struck me as very sweet.

Soak 'em in a little alcohol till they've softened up - madeira, marsala, white wine, or a brandy of some sort. Hell, use armagnac if you're feeling reckless. Saute them in butter and use them in cream sauce. Do not throw out that wild mushroom infused liquor! Use it, too - it's heavenly.

JoC

Marvelous party! My mouth is watering just reading about it ...

I couldn't be more thrilled that this thread is here, at a time when I'm debating which knife/knives to buy - even though it isn't my thread! Thank you, all of you for your thoughtful input - I'm receiving an education. Thanks too, Octaveman, for suggesting ebay as a means of getting rid of the metallic abominations (Cutco) that were given me. Sad thing is, the gift-givers meant well, and truly believed them to be the best. For price tags like that, they ought to have been.

Perhaps there are differences between men and women as to their comfort level about dining solo? When I was younger, dining alone (even at table) was a gilt edged invitation for men to hit on me, and not politely, either. It tended to render the entire experience awful. It's very different now, but I can't say whether it's because I now live in NY, whether it's because I'm older, or whether social presumptions have changed. Could be a combo of all three. My discomfort with the experience has since vanished, and I enjoy it now, a lot. Wish I'd always been able to do so. I'm with Megan - dining alone and seeing films alone can be a wonderful thing.

I dined for lunch at the cafe many years ago - and the experience was wonderful. I no longer remember the specifics of what I had (just that it was pasta and vegetables), but I do remember quite clearly that never before had either tasted so good.

Oh, but I can compare them. And I do call them a "chain." A quote from Trader Joes' corporate website, entitled "the future of Trader Joes:" "Our future plans call for on-going development of new, one-of-a-kind food items at value prices, and continued expansion of our chain across the country." They have, at present, 254 stores in 20 states (Minnesota in progress). CHAIN. Regardless of what you perceive to be a corporate conscience (and I have doubts that such a thing exists), it is a fact of the marketplace that larger chain stores drive out smaller competitors. They have marketing clout, big distribution arms, and they can undercut their competition as necessary. If you don't think that Trader Joes plays the business game like any other corporate entity does, just compare the prices at their Manhattan store with the prices at one of their stores in neighboring New Jersey. They can fleece New Yorkers with the best of them. I'm sure they do keep some small producers in business. Who I believe to be at risk from the presence of yet another chain store in New York City are our small vendors. We don't produce any food here that I'm aware of, other than in the children's plot in the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, and that's not going to feed a city of 8 million. Chains don't provide any benefits to producers within these city limits, but they do provide a risk to other grocers. Believe it or not, I'm not one of the Trader Joes = the antichrist people on this thread. I would, if they offered them at low prices, buy King Arthur flours, Valrhona chocolate, wild mushrooms and other dry goods from them. Dry goods are expensive in New York, and the only competition out there is from other chain stores. Let them slug it out with each other. But if TJs were to expand its stores here, or to open one up in my neighborhood and go up against all those small merchants and green marketeers who are near and dear to me, then there'll be hell to pay. Most of us choose to live here because we do not wish to feel like every place else. Bringing a mall culture into the city violates that entirely.

Tried the black raspberry chocolate chip recently. Divine.

Quote above from the post that started it all. Andiesenji, I’m sorry you had those bad experiences in New York, but I’m glad to hear you had another experience that somewhat mitigated it. Unfortunately, there are people who can be found in every major city on this planet who will prey upon others. New York is hardly alone in this – Paris, London and Rome all have the same issues. I think what the non New York City residents who are reading this thread are picking up on, and truly do not understand, is the subtext within. Yes, this is a thread about Trader Joes coming to Manhattan. Those of you who aren’t urbanites are bringing your own perceptions of and experiences with this particular chain to the table, and it’s welcome, refreshing and right that you should do so. No problem there. Trader Joes is a chain store that many people like very much, and anyone who lives in a suburb or in the far reaches of the countryside would be bound to find them great. They offer imported items at great value, and some things that the other chain stores don’t. What’s not to like about them, right? So why on earth would a New Yorker not see eye to eye with a non-urbanite on this? It’s the chain store phenomenon, and what it is doing to our town. As I’d said somewhere above, no one objected when Staples first opened its flagship store – personally, I was thrilled. Great selection, cheap prices – what’s not to like? Well, Staples is all over town now, and all the little stationery shops where I used buy my greeting cards and wrapping paper are now gone. There used to be four in my neighborhood alone - now I have to go to the local Barnes & Noble (another ubiquitous chain). Gone. And with them, everything that was unique. We like our little shops. We like our greenmarkets. We want them to survive. But the real estate market here in New York is such that the little merchants are being priced out of their leases, and the chains are moving inexorably in. Every time a chain store opens, many little vendors fail. Maybe that doesn’t mean much to out-of-towners, but it means a lot to us. You want to talk about familiar? We like what’s familiar to us, too. This isn’t any different than the debate over the Olive Garden opening up in Manhattan. Yeah, the tourists might eat there – they probably will. But why in god’s world anyone would come to a city with the greatest Italian cuisine outside of Italy and fill their faces with crap is beyond me. They could eat far better at any little restaurant on just about any corner. They just don’t know any better, poor saps. Why would anyone pass by a greenmarket or a butcher shop or a fish shop or a cheese shop and buy their dinner fixings at TJs? They don’t know any better, either. We do.

Oh lord, I can't stop laughing.

Wow. I hope that you've only recently moved to New York, and that you haven't had a chance to truly know it yet - I'd hate to think that this is more than a first impression. Actually I'd hate to think it was a first impression, either. But to each his own. I will say this, though. I recently came back to the city after an absence of more than a year, and I realized, somewhat to my surprise, that I had missed it terribly when I was gone. I also discovered, much to my amazement, that the city missed me. The hostess of my local sushi restaurant greeted me like a conquering hero when I came in (and comped both me and my companion a dessert). All the small shopkeepers in my neighborhood welcomed me home, and asked me where I'd been. None of them know me by name, but if you buy your daily bread at the same place long enough, they come to know you very well, indeed. Purchase your morning coffee from the same person every day, and they'll pride themselves in making it for you just the way you like it, without your even having to ask. All of these are things for which New York is known, and in that way it can feel like a small village rather than a big city. They're earned over time, though - they don't just happen overnight. I would hope that you've experienced them yourself, or that you will, if you stay here long enough. And these are genuine relationships - which is why we are so very defensive of our small merchants. I'm glad to hear that Trader Joe's strives to provide service with a smile - no reason why any chain store's employees shouldn't be nice. But I do encourage you to get to know your neighborhood shopkeepers, and some of the greenmarket vendors. Don't know much about fish? Ask your fishmonger to tell you how to prepare it. Ask that woman behind the counter to recommend you a cheese. Tell her you loved it or hated it next time you go in. Strike up a conversation with someone in line who looks like they know more about cuts of meat than you do. Suddenly, you'll be a thread in the fabric of this city, too. And that pleasant, anonymous nice that you find from the chains won't feel quite as exceptional as it once did.

Add me to the raw tomato haters club. And I don't like green bell peppers, either, though I love the red and yellow ones. What makes them taste so bad?

Okay, a quick aside for the wine ... Clearly, you did your homework - I just dallied my way along the lake, and we stopped at every vineyard until we were sated with the experience. Seneca Shores is definitely worth a visit - their reserve reds completely changed my opinion on NYS reds. (Squeezed a few of those into my suitcase!). Of course, they were rather pricey, as with the Tierce, which I'll have to try someday. Have not been to Red Newt or Standing Stone, but I shall make a point of it next time I'm upstate.

I've always been of the opinion that there's one big kitchen deep in the bowels of the city from which all Greek diner food comes. But that's probably due to the fact that they all buy that horrific cole slaw (mentioned above) from the same source.

If you got to the west side of the lake, did you have a chance to taste the Seneca Shores wines? I liked Fox Run and Prejean, too. I've twice done the Seneca vineyards, and those three held up as my favorites each time. I'd have told you the place I ate at both trips, but I can't even remember the name of the town! Good steak, though. And do stop for a drink at Bellhurst next time, if you've got a chance. Even if you are full of wine from your tastings. Hope you enjoy your dinner!

I can't vouch for the food there, but Bellhurst Castle is a splendid place to have a drink, at the very least.

Well done! Meat pies are one of the great elements of British cooking - I'm so impressed you made one! (The ones over there look rustic, too - yours looks fine).

Where were you when my family decided to buy me a very expensive set of Cutco knives as a gift? I've been trying to figure out how to gracefully get rid of them ever since. They're awful.

If you venture into the outer boroughs, Bonnie's Grill in Park Slope (5th Avenue between Garfield and First Street) has terrific black angus burgers. The accompanying fries (eat them with the chipotle mayo) are wonderful.

Dear Pan, you do misunderstand me! I don't speak in absolutes, beyond stating my own tastes and opinions, and even those are variable. I would no more say that vegetarianism has its roots in affluence than I would say that the Dalai Lama would eat a cheeseburger if only he were deprived of nutrition long enough. I know a great many vegetarians (I was married to one), and they come to that stance for many different reasons. For moral reasons, either unyielding or slippery (as in those sliding scales mentioned above). For health reasons. For religious reasons. I was a vegetarian for a year for far shallower ones - I was living with my vegetarian partner-to-be, and I was damned if I was going to prepare two separate meals every night. I'm unfamiliar with the Jains, thank you for providing that link. But despite that unfamiliarity, I'm not suprised that they exist, nor that there've been vegetarian-based religions or societies for ages. All I was trying to say is that now, in a time of plenty, we have room for debate about the morality of meat issues. And I do feel strongly that this "room for debate" is tied to that plenty. Would I, or could I, kill a cow, simply if I wanted meat? No. Would I, or could I, kill a cow if that act stood between my family's salvation or starvation? Quite probably, yes. Would the Dalai Lama eat a cheeseburger if deprived of nutrition long enough? No. Would my niece the pain-in-the-ass vegan who is only doing it to to impress her pain-in-the-ass vegan boyfriend? In a New York minute.

I respect a lot of what you're posting, but you start by repeating a claim that has previously been made and thoroughly debunked on these forums before when you state that vegetarianism is a newfangled product of affluence. Don't you realize that vegetarianism based on religious beliefs goes back at least several thousand years, into times B.C.? I wasn't aware that I'd stated "that vegetarianism is a newfangled product of affluence." I certainly don't think it. I do think that the world has had periodic rises and falls of affluence which impact upon its cultures (and consequently, their eating habits). Even within the 20th century there've been hardships as well as periods of prosperity in the West - the privations of the second World War left serious scars among some people I know. (One older gent I've met still hoards food, despite his wealth). I do believe that the human organism chooses its eating habits when it has the luxury of choice. I also believe that we are, when faced with starvation, a whole lot less particular about what we consume.

I wouldn't be too proud of this... Of what? That I now eat meat without apology? That I occasionally enjoy foie gras, veal and lamb? Or that I bring up the point (a valid one, I do believe) that most people who eat in restaurants are not in command of all the variables of what is placed before them? Just as we don't know just how much butter ends up in the dish we've ordered (according to most New York chefs, a lot!), we do not know everything about how that meat arrived at our plate. We eat it as an act of faith. If you tell me the chicken I've ordered is organic or free-range, you've told me something of how it's lived. If you tell me it's Halal kosher, you've told me something of how it's died. If you tell me it's coq au vin, you've told me how it's been prepared. Most restaurants offer menu items by describing only the style in which they've been prepared. As for the foie gras issue, I don't believe, from what I've read of gavage, that it's inhumane as practiced by reputable sources. You may disagree, fair enough. I did not mean to imply, in any way shape or form, that we should not address humane techniques of bringing animals to market. There is a vast difference between purchasing "veal which was separated from its mother at birth in order to be confined in a small dark box and fed crap" and "veal which was allowed to pasture with the herd until a certain age and then killed." What I was trying to address (unclearly, evidently!) were the issues of "which," not "how." I don't see killing an animal for meat at 4 months as being less ethical than killing that same animal for meat at 8 months. Again, my personal opinion. I hope I didn't come across as flippant in my post above, because this is an issue about which I think a lot (I wouldn't be upset by the inconsistencies in all the "moral vegetarians" in my life if I were). I've been in England during crises in their food supply (post BSE, during the foot and mouth crisis, and last year when a carcinogenic red dye ended up in the prepared food supply). Interestingly, a fair number of people I know became vegetarians during the foot and mouth crisis - not because of diseased meat ending up on the grocery shelves (it didn't), but because the discussions about the destruction of herds and the movements of the cattle around the country from farm to abattoir ended up illuminating the inner workings of the meat and dairy industry. Most people don't think about how that piece of steak ended up on their plate. And most of them wouldn't eat it if they did. I've seen a sign proclaiming "Ohio's largest chicken farm," fronting several small, low, windowless buildings. I don't even want to imagine what goes on in there. I've also seen modern free-range pig farms, in which yes, the pigs do get to walk around. But trust me, it ain't the life of Babe. We cannot romanticize that the purpose for which these animals are being raised is death. I'll reiterate what I said about bringing respect back into the food process - I had hoped that would imply my stance on the side of the ethical and humane treatment of animals bred for consumption, but perhaps I was unclear.

I dined at Scopello last night. I'd like to have tried Ici instead, but the circumstances (post-work, pre-BAM, Friday night) seemed too frantic and tightly scheduled for a place I'd like to sample at my leisure. Scopello's food isn't haute by any means - think Sicilian grandma food. I was happy with my selections - a salad followed by the pork cooked in brandy and oranges. My dining companion had the rolled eggplant followed by lamb, and declared (after sampling mine), that I had the better dish of the two. We shared a tartufo - nothing special, but a pleasant finish to the meal. The price tag was excellent - with two glasses of wine each, starters, entrees and coffees, it was under $100. The service was pleasant, and very, very fast (very important under those circumstances). It's 1.5 blocks from BAM, and we arrived in the lobby just as they flicked the lights. I wouldn't seek it out as a destination in and of itself, but for pre-Bam cheap eats, it delivers.