ulterior epicure

No, no, they're still rock star status - clearly I'm not! Yes, I stand corrected - Segal was under M. Kornick and Sam Mason was at WD~50. Yes, yes, move along, nothing to see here.

In response to avant-garde's inital post: I've noticed that most successful "desserts bars" are the created by notable pastry chefs who have made a name for themselves (or had formidable training/work in high-profile restaurants): Mindy Segal (former pastry chef at blackbird); Sam Tailor (former pastry chef at WD~50); Chika Tillman (worked at Gramercy Tavern and Seeger's); Ritsuko Yamaguchi (worked at Daniel, Ringo, and Cru); and the above mentioned Pichet Ong (former pastry chef at RM, then consulting pastry chef at Jean Georges Vongerichten's 66 and Spice Market); Will Goldfarb (former pastry chef at Cru - but clearly, his idea had limits, as Room 4 Dessert has now closed);.... So, it seems that "dessert bars" succeed only if you've got name clout. The pastry chefs I've mentioned (and about to mention) had/have almost garnered cult-like following, where the dessert course at the very renowned restaurants could be said to be on par, if not having eclipsed the food for many. So, along this logic, I would bet that Gale Gand (TRU), Sherry Yard (Spago), and Johnny Iuzzini (Daniel, and now Jean Georges) would accrue a steady following on their own. I would also bet that Alex Stupack (alinea, now WD~50) would do quite well opening his own "dessert-only" bar. This makes sense to me - as there are tons of restaurants that turn out great desserts - so why would you ever want to go to a place just to eat sweets? The local ice cream parlor/pastry shop/chocolatier satisfies most American's sweet tooths, if not the freezer aisle at the market. Although many look forward to desserts at the end of a restaurant meal experience, not many are used to eating dessert all by itself, or making a "separate special effort" to get a sugar fix by itself beyond the familiar cone or slice of cake. Kansas City doesn't (yet) have any rock star-status pastry chefs. The only one I can name by name is Megan Garrelts at bluestem; and she has considerable training under Gale Gand at TRU. I'm not going to go so far as to say that without name clout, a dessert bar wouldn't work. But, I think to even pull out a sophisticated repertoire of sweets requires a lot of high-level training and finesse. A rock star status pastry chef would clinch the cachet. Given these elements, I think KC would be receptive to a dessert bar concept, but I don't see it happening anytime soon....

I guess my point, more broadly, is that (in answer to the very first question) I don't think a dessert bar would be successful in KC if it was relying solely or primarily on desserts to generate profit. It may work as a hook to draw people in, but even that would be tough. It seems like most concepts like this either use desserts as their calling card but offer some savory items as well (like Hot Chocolate or Kyotofu); or close (like Sugar and Room 4 Dessert). Another alternative is to have a to-go/retail component, like The Chocolate Bar in Houston or ChiKalicious. I can't actually think of any dessert bars in Chicago, even...the Peninsula has a weekend Chocolate Bar, Tru has a prix fixe dessert menu, there are bakery/cafes like Angel Food, and "chocolate lounges" (Ethel M), but a straight-up dessert bar? I hope JWest's right about the food scene here (and the rest of the development scene), but I wouldn't bet on a dessert bar here right now. ← ... and, even the most adventurous of cities have their limits: Room 4 Desserts is no longer. P*Ong, which has been getting a lot of press lately (Pichet Ong was formerly a pastry chef under Jean Georges), has garnered mix reviews. P*Ong, as Aaron points out, isn't exclusively a dessert bar - it offers a mix of savory and sweet - although sweet plays an over-riding role in all of his dishes - from meats down to confectionary and pastries. Hot Chocolate in Chicago might be considered a dessert bar, but as Aaron points out - it does offer savory items. Aaron - you left out the big bald guy - Max Brenner. Here in KC, I think the closest thing you're going to get is Christopher Elbows - which on top of having seating for his chocolate shop, also serves quite an extensive list of hot chocolates (although, in this heat, I can't imagine....).

Sounds like I'm the sore one for missing out. I can't wait to hear the reports and see the photos.

Thanks, that won't be a problem for me; I'm looking a few weeks in advance.

Is it difficult, or even possible, to procure/secure a seat in front of Hideo ahead of time i.e. can this be requested at reservation?)? Or, is it luck of the draw by the walk-in?

Is the tasting at WD~50 still 9 courses?

Judy, have you been out in the sun too long? Your grammar has regressed to Rachel Ray levels.

If I'm not mistaken - it's at the Brookside Farmer's market - in Kansas City. You've got a long drive ahead of you, liv4fud.

Leave it to Elliot (the chef) to make it sweet!

Excellent, Elliot! I'm not surprised Chef Bowles is constantly pushing the limit. It looks like he's stepped up the pastry progam over there. No cheese course?

Since when has it become criminal to eat meat that still slightly bleeding? Oh, wait, that's why I only eat u.e.Burgers, chez moi, aussi.

True, but maybe for the same reasons, it felt a little more intimate, to me. Yes, BryanZ describes the layout more appropriately. His "right" was my "front." His "far left" was my "back." There was also a "middle" room, which I also felt was like a hallway.

[Moderator's Note: Earlier today, chefg, Chef Grant Achatz, wrote the post below in the Alinea topic (click here for that post). We've created this topic in member news to enable our members to share their wishes for a strong and speedy recovery. -- CA] ChefG, I'm so sorry to hear of your diagnosis, but am happy to hear that you remain positive and upbeat. Thank you very much for sharing this bit of personal news with the boards. I wish you the best in your treatment. u.e.

If I had a choice, having been seated both upstairs and down, I would prefer, in order: 1. Downstairs. 2. Upstairs "front room." 3. Upstairs "back room." The upstairs, generally, is a little more frenetic - there are more tables and parties, IIRC. The downstairs had a more intimate feel, for me.

As an add on to what moosnsqrl had written about the dining room, I found it to be a remarkable improvement over the old zin space. To be sure, it's certainly recognizable as the former zin, except now, to put more of a break between reception and dining room, they've moved two/three large wine shelves between the host stand and the first tables. I like this. The biggest improvement is the addition of a new wall that blocks the view into the kitchen from the front of the dining room (I believe diners in certain spots toward the back still can see in.). I also like the banquette options now. The bar area is virtually unchanged. Whereas it used to be warehousey and spartan, the space is now sleek and more industrial chic, if you will. Food, overall, based on a couple-few visits (both services) is pretty good. The menus are glossy print on nice stock paper, so I don't assume they'll be changing them anytime too soon. Lunch plates range between $9-$13. Desserts are $5 at lunch, $7 at night. Dinner plates top off at $29, if I recall - with a smattering of appetizers and salads ranging roughly $5 for soup and the rest are $7-14. Nice drink menu. The wine list is standard - I'm not a huge wine person, so I'll defer to those with more expertise - by the glass and of course bottles. Upcharge seems industry standard...

Well, I'm at the office and looking at the menus but there aren't hours listed. I've also not found an official phone number. When I made opening night reservations I called the number on tacovendor's email and it was Michael's cell, so I guess you'll just have to try your luck. Smart money says they're open for lunch at least Mon-Fri, though. ← Dinners and Lunch Tuesday through Saturday. Closed Sunday and Monday. Telephone number: 816.842.2202.

Ahem, Michael Smith is technically in Missouri (although Jasper's and Chef's Smith's previous restaurant, 40 Sardines, are in Kansas). Thanks for posting. I too have been in to Michael Smith for lunch, and have found it enjoyable. Did you have any dessert?

Sorry, here's the blog post that you're probably referring to.

I love it when you talk dirty to me like that! Thanks for the update. I'm long overdue for some dim sum...

Even if Torres had his own restaurant, I would agree with Nathan. No.

There was a Wolfgang Puck Express in Hoboken, but it closed within a year. ← A lithmus test of your "average non-foodie North American" celebritydom?

daisy17 mentioned him above, but I wouldn't even consider Tom Colicchio, unless the average non-foodie happens to watch Bravo's Top Chef, which I guess, would make them, to some degree, a foodie in my book... as would anyone watching any of Gordon Ramsey's show...

Okay, according to this qualification, then I'd say the following: Batali Flay Morimoto Boulud Ripert Palmer Keller Vongerichten Bastianich I'm sure there are others, but right now, my average foodie mind can think of any. u.e. ← to be honest guys, if you really mean by "average North American non-foodie"...i.e. at least 50% of the adult population of the U.S/Canada (I assume you're not counting Mexico)...the answer is: NONE OF THE ABOVE. PERIOD. you might find that 50% of the population would recognize Batali vaguely as a chef...in his trademark attire...but not his name. (maybe 25-30% would recognize his name). Rachel Ray is the only food figure in the country who might have 50% name recognition. if you redefined it as "recognizeable to the average food-network viewer".....it'd be Batali, Morimoto and Flay. that's it. not Keller, not JG, not Lidia, etc. Lidia would be closest. Todd English and Roy would be next only because they have so many restaurants across the country (and Roy even uses his name in them). if any of the above is a surprise or controversial to you...you might want to hang out with a few more non-foodies (i.e. 98% of the population). I was talking to someone last night who was self-proclaimed NY foodie....writes a blog, etc. I'd almost guarantee you that she wouldn't recognize the names of Ripert (she'd know the restaurant but not the chef), Lidia or Palmer (ditto). as for non-food celebs that have a hand in restaurants in NY? that's a long, long, long, long list. ← Oh *crap* - I missed "non" in the "non-foodie." I withdraw my list and concur with Nathan. Now, if Rachel Ray, Emeril Lagasse, or Martha Stewart were to open a restaurant in NYC, or if say Paris Hilton or Oprah decided to undergo a serious pay-cut and career change, then I would say they would qualify. My bad. u.e.

Okay, according to this qualification, then I'd say the following: Batali Flay Morimoto Boulud Ripert Palmer Keller Vongerichten Bastianich I'm sure there are others, but right now, my average foodie mind can think of any. u.e.