GordonCooks
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Posts posted by GordonCooks
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Zzzzz, probably the most underwhelming set of final dishes to date.
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Not really, no one will say the place is running perfect. More astute diners hope he bridges the gap between his potential and his execution. Given a little time, I'm betting he will.
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Hi all,
I am going to be in Toronto this Saturday and am looking for a recommendation for a place I can take two friends. We've been to the Jamie Kennedy wine bar before, and enjoyed it a great deal; I'm tempted to go back, but it seems a shame to not branch out if other places are deserving. That said, the kind of quality (lots of care), cost (moderate) and vibe (casual, hip, fun) seen there is what we're looking for.
Any ideas? Cowbell?
Places I considers casual and good values - Bite Me, Grace, Trevor, etc
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Does anyone have an idea of how much Susur has actually been at and running Shang? Besides Keller and Per Se, the only other non-resident marquee chef that has been successful in NYC is Robuchon. NYC generally doesn't take kindly to "outposts" unlike Las Vegas. In addition to Ducasse, witness Ramsey as another example.
He's here no less than 4 days a week and most of time, 5-6.
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Not to discount how hard it is to open in NYC, but this seems to me to be the inevitable result of Susur leaving the protective Toronto bubble. He's an immensely talented chef who's not faced a whole lot of criticism in the past. Back home, he could do no wrong, but, not having eaten at Shang, the criticisms that one would levy on the restaurant were pretty predictable based on my experience in Toronto. When it's not on, Susur’s food can be frantic, over-complicated, unfocused, overworked etc. In Toronto, these problems were over-looked. In NYC, during a period where even the best complex food is greeted with skepticism, Susur's inconsistency is deadly. Don’t get me wrong, I like Susur Lee's work. He is responsible for some truly memorable dishes that I've eaten. Despite this, I think he's been protected in Toronto and has never had to address some of the flaws in his cooking. I still plan on eating at Shang and wish Susur all the best. But that doesn't mean that I'm surprised by the critical response.
I'm not sure where you got this idea but he's as revered and he is criticized up north. My friends up north are split up the middle as far as love/hate. But then again, we're the same way when talking old world vs new world wines. He's under the Joanna Kates wunderkind umbrella but he still gets some bad ink now and then.
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There's usually a range of reviews and a few outliers, but overall I'd say Shang has been a critical bomb.
Critical bomb? That's a little harsh. I think the New Yorker liked it more then the Times but I can't think of many places hitting NY for the first time and hitting a home run right off the bat in the first 60 days. Not even your beloved ADNY if you recall.
Ducasse was a critical bomb too. It ultimately survived for six years, but most places pilloried that badly do not. I wish Shang all the best (reminder: I liked the place), but this is an inauspicious beginning. That much can't be denied.
I'm not throwing stones at anyone's palates. I do have an issue that everyone seems to think it doesn't live up to what their preconceived notions of what it should have been. Have I eaten at Susur and Lee and enjoyed it? Yes. Do my fellow diners like Shang more than either? No. Do they think Susur has something on which to build on? Yes. I've heard some very valid criticisms regarding food temps and spicing. All things that can be addressed as the staff gets more seasoned and learns more about his food. But some of the mincing is like going to Moto and saying they have lousy japanese food.
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There's usually a range of reviews and a few outliers, but overall I'd say Shang has been a critical bomb.
Critical bomb? That's a little harsh. I think the New Yorker liked it more then the Times but I can't think of many places hitting NY for the first time and hitting a home run right off the bat in the first 60 days. Not even your beloved ADNY if you recall.
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The people I've spoken with who've dined there (some Torontonians and some New Yorkers but all having eaten at Susur and or Lee previously) have enjoyed it. Maybe not head over heals loved it but hopefully, time and experience will change that.
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If that was indeed the plan, it strikes me as a flawed strategy, because a wave of adverse word-of-mouth is building up while he fiddles around.You're very correct Doc. It's the space and location he desired but the food is slowly being introduced with caution and care to see what flies and what doesn't. As soon as some benchmarks are established - look for a tasting menu to be introduced.If certain people enjoy these flavor profiles - they'll tell others and return to eat again. Many customers are eating there for curiosity factor without having any experience or knowledge of his culinary point of view - from a menu standpoint (mainly price points) I'd say it's an excellent strategy. Introducing something more unique than mainsteam to what's arguably the toughest restaurant market in the country? I think he's making wise choices.
If any adverse word of mouth is building, it's mainly service related. Something I have less of a tendency to be critical of when spending $50.00 for a meal rather than $150.00
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I liked Shang, but not nearly as much as I liked Susur, which I truly loved. I have a hard time believing that Shang as constructed is Susur's dream restaurant. His concept is good, but as evidenced on this topic not clear to a lot of people. I would have thought that by now some of the kinks in the restaurant would have been ironed out.
You're very correct Doc. It's the space and location he desired but the food is slowly being introduced with caution and care to see what flies and what doesn't. As soon as some benchmarks are established - look for a tasting menu to be introduced.
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"I also think Colicchio does a decent job holding himself above and away from the extensive product placements on Top Chef"
whatttt?????
Colicchio is a GIANT PRODUCT PLACEMENT AD for himself and his chain of eateries...
come on, in for a penny, in for a pound...the only reason ANY of these folks is doing Top Chef is to sell themselves...
To paraphrase Winston Churchill..We have determined Collichio is a "sell out", we are merely quibbling over the price....
Then I guess you consider his restaurants on par with Macaroni grill and Olive Garden?
Tom Colicchio is the main reason Top Chef has any culinary credibility or relevance.
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Probably had the best meal Rochester had to offer Sat night.
Went to MAX of Eastman for some dinner with a good friend (and fellow glutton)
Apps and split 4 Entrees for a pseudo tasting menu - A bottle of Pine Ridge "Dijon Clones" chard and a Bottle of Dumol Syrah. Food, wine, and service was flawless. It's my go-to spot but I'm always amazed in reflection that this place does it's job so well. Hit Rocco for all the desserts (Butterscotch budino, fresh filled canoli, sorbet, gelato, etc) and then Good Luck for an after dinner cocktail, then The Strath for a bottle of dessert wine. This was a meal I could have had in any big city but right in my hometown was comforting.
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I've done Chorizo and smoked paprika before with some marjoram leaves thrown in at the finish.
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... but you cannot overlook Stefan's extensive experience working abroad and in Michelin starred kitchens. It's just at a whole other level.
That's what some would say about a tortoise and a hare.
More like Rocky Aoki and Masa Takayama
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Given the theme, it played to Stefan's and Carla's catering strengths - Carla performed up to snuff and Stefan played it to "not lose" Hosea's success relied on a huge amount of preparation I'm guessing. He strikes me as a very focused and studious cook. He probably read every cookbook he could get his hands on in the interim. I always enjoyed Fabio's personality - had the theme been cajun monkey's ass - he would have come out on top.
Given the final 3, Hosea seems like the long shot but hard work and preparation has excelled in the past. Carla and Stefan's grounding in French technique put's them in similar company but you cannot overlook Stefan's extensive experience working abroad and in Michelin starred kitchens. It's just at a whole other level.
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just because she doesn't drink that doesn't mean she does know wine. I'm sure she has plenty of knowledge about how wine works. You can enjoy wine without being a drinker.
That's a bit of stretch. I would equate that with looking at pictures and descriptions of a great meal vs actually eating one in the restaurant.
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I will be making my first trip to Toronto in March. I will be staying at the Suites at 1 King West. I have been searching on this forum, tripadvisor and Chowhound for information about dining in the downtown area. I am trying to get my head around the setup of the areas (King St. West, Entertainment District, Financial District, etc...) and am wondering how close these areas are all to one another and if they are all within wallkable distance. I've also done some reading up about the underground walkways and am wondering how this works into getting around in the downtown core. I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed with all the info...
My husband will be joining me on this trip and is not a very adventurous eater so I am looking for restaurants serving solid food that are not too "foodie-centric". One night, I would like to go to a restaurant that would be nice for a romantic night out. I'm thinking either Italian or some place for steak and would prefer something in the moderate range but may consider a pricier restaurant. On Saturday night, we are going to see the Leafs play the Bruins so I am thinking that we would like to hit up come kind of pub for some grub and a few drinks nearby to the Air Canada Centre. I'm considering the Bottom Line Restaurant, P.J. O'Brien's, Irish Embassy Pub or Beerbistro.
My first night there, I will be alone and am thinking of a wine bar, either Jamie Kennedy or Crush. Are those very far from the hotel? How safe is it to walk around downtown Toronto at night alone?
What other restaurants are near the Suites at 1 King West that I should look into? How far to the St. Lawrence Market?
Thanks for any insight you can give me!
Shelley
For a nice romantic night out - I would suggest Canoe. Great view and a menu you both can work with.
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Any traditional blender Hollandaise is pretty stiff when left to stand right after making. I usually have to thin it to make it pourable or spoonable for that matter.
And if you make it with clarified butter, the hydration will be low, making it firmer. BUT, clarified butter hollandaise doesn't taste very good. My inclination would be to use whole butter, and seek out advice from a hydrocolloid guru, on how to build it on a foam that's thicker and more stable than sabayon. And please let us know if you come up with something cool.
I've had good luck using Kerry Gold and really, really fresh organic eggs. It's not something I do alot but people always comment on the great taste and texture of mine.
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Any traditional blender Hollandaise is pretty stiff when left to stand right after making. I usually have to thin it to make it pourable or spoonable for that matter.
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I'm getting rid of all my lead goblets.
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Go to Perola in Kensington Market - lots of dried chiles to choose from and lots of herbs (like epazote) as well.
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Less luxury ingredients for dinner parties and my wine futures purchases are less than half of what they used to be and shrinking every year.
Origin - Toronto
in Ontario: Dining
Posted
What's the opening date?