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Wow. Surprised this thread is so dead so far. I think if people really contribute it could be an invaluable reference. The Art of Eating Cook's Illustrated Saveur

The best Thai I ever had outside of Bangkok (two years) was in Providence, on the south side, past a huge cemetary, beside, kind of behind asian grocery store. They had outdoor tables with a koi fountain outside. I will mapquest it and figure it out, unless somebody can name it first. Hope this isn't a tease!

Adam, What an engaging thread! I don't know if you are book dork like I am; if you are you might consider the following books by Alan Davidson. (This link is to his obituary in The Guardian. It is the most thorough link I found on him). Mediterranean Seafood (1972) Seafood of South East Asia (1979) North Atlantic Seafood (1979) Saveur magazine's website says of Mediterranean Seafood: "Complete handbook to Mediterranean sea life, with black-and-white drawings, detailed definitions, translations, and recipes. Excellent for identifying the lesser-known creatures." His works are considered unimpeachably authoritative. Davidson was an Oxford graduate and was serving as a British diplomat when he wrote Mediterranean Seafood. Elizabeth David, goddess of English food writing and M.F.K. Fisher's spiritual twin, gave Davidson his publishing break by recommending his manuscript to Penguin. Davidson wrote many other books, including the previously out-of-print Fish and Fish Dishes of Laos, and was the editor of The Oxford Companion to Food, of which Amazon.com says: "Davidson himself...contributes approximately 80 percent of the 2,650 entries, thereby guaranteeing high levels of erudition, readability, and deadpan feline wit." You could buy his books through www.abebooks.com (direct link to his books with the word "seafood" in the title), which is a site that is linked to the inventories of thousands of used-book stores.

I will provisionally nominate Ali-Bab's Practical Gastronomy. Provisionally, as I haven't read it (I just got my copy from www.abebooks.com), but had seen it recommended in Becoming a Chef (where I was also turned on to many good books, including The Auberge of the Flowering Hearth, my favorite book on any subject, ever), and in Craig Claiborne's autobiography (A Feast Made for Laughter, a good read in its own right)'s recommended cookbook library, if I remember right, etc. Edited to change underlines to boldface. Why? Because I'm a lemming. Squeak!

Good girl. I was scratching my head on this one. Thanks for bringing us back to earth. And yes it is that place, thank God.

I just heard of natto for the first time, and have yet to try it. I think that the following link, though, is a thorough, well-written introduction: Chaka Kahn! (I can't use "clickety," it's already been done).

You're welcome, and thank you.

Until I moved I preferred Pete's Famous Hot Dogs on 2nd? 4th? The couple that runs it is lovely. And when you finished your dog the fellow would fix you with an intent, almost hypnotic almost-glare and almost-bark "Ready for another?" And of course, suddenly, you were. Priceless. Gotta drink the grape soda with those things, too (I forget the brand). Golden Palace has the second-best Chinese in town by a long mile. It's a bit of a drive, but rediculously well worth it. The service is genuinely warm and impeccably tight. (Er, may have to edit that?) The food is wonderful. The atmosphere is unpretentious. And the prices are right. Try the Mu Shu and the Mongolian Beef. Perhaps even better is The Red Pearl (945-9558). I post the number because after I was taken there on a date when I was new to town, I found it impossible to locate again. Thank you bhamdining.com. This is traditional Chinese. When you walk in you are greeted with a tank of live eels, etc. Top-notch. Two true jewels in Birmingham are The Garage and Marty's, both bars. Best atmosphere of any bar, restaurant, or other in the city. Trust me. And Marty's closes when the sun rises, and the music there is always magic. Try their cheeseburgers. Tangent: I was waiting dinner service at Asagio (don't do it), and at the end of a shift I asked my boss where I could find a good burger in town. He suggested Chili's, and I was like "No, I want a real, greasy brown-bag burger." He seemed to consider me for a moment and he said, "Well, there is Marty's." I knew from the way his eyes glowed that I was onto a big secret. He gave me very bad directions (intentionally, perversely?), and after walking about five blocks I found it. I had just moved from rural Alabama, and when I walked up Marty's looked like the redneck bars in Albertville where I was always wondering if somebody was going to start a fight with your average white-bread kid like me. Then I looked through the glass door and I saw a man inside, smiling. It was a beautiful smile. I thought, "Wow, nobody smiles like that in a place like this," and went in. The crowd was eclectic and low-key and the vibe was heaven and home. The live music was unearthly. The cheeseburger was just right. The kind of cheeseburger you soul cries out for sometimes. No gourmet thing this, but a real burger. Tangent II: The Garage is called The Garage because the bar is attached to a courtyard is surrounded one-time carriage garages. The bar is managed by one fellow, I believe, and the other partner runs the courtyard. The latter is an antiques dealer, and the courtyard is filled with basins, statues, etc. around the tables and under the trees. And the garages are now glassed-in and filled with more antiques. Apocryphally, the guy will never sell anything; it is a nightmare tracking him down and he sets prices on the stuff to discourage even serious buyers. Edit: They also make quite tasty sandwiches. There is a little French pastry shop in Homewood? called Rue de Provence run by a medium-sized French pastry chef. They supply baguettes to half the good restaurants in town, while the Continental Bakery in Mountain Brook supplies the other half. Good eats. Frank Stitt's Highlands Bar and Grill (New/Southeast American fusion) was ranked the fifth best restaurant in the nation by Gourmet magazine in '01 or '02. He also runs Bottega, an Italian place. I didn't eat at either, but did eat at his Chez Fon Fon, their French bistro next door to Highlands (trout amondine, decent but not mind-blowing). Stitt cites Richard Olney as a mentor and I thinks used to stay with with Lulu and Lucien [?] Peyraud, of "Lulu's Provincial Table" (Olney) fame, who mentored Alice Waters and hosted Julia Child, Olney, Kermit Lynch, etc., often. I believe he also cooked at Chez Panisse, but I am not sure about this. The Hot and Hot Fish Club (also New/Southeast American fusion), run by an ex-Stitt chef looks alright, but their food didn't impress me the one time I went there. It is pretty hard-core foodie (sorry, hate that word) food, though, and I may have gotten the wrong dish on the wrong night--I ordered pork loin, I think, and expected depth of flavor. They do have the Peyraud's Domaine Tempier Rose at the bar though. Chef-owner Chris Hastings worked with Bradley Ogden, and Idie Hastings worked at Stars and did pastry for Wolfgang Puck. The staff is pretty hard-core too, in an elitist kind of way, but turnover was reported to be high. Cosmo's Pizza in Five Points is solid. Davenport's Pizza and Dave's Pizza are pretty good. Sakura Sushi in Five Points is fun. I didn't love Taj India, near Five Points, but they do have kulfi (traditional Indian ice cream) in pistachio, mango, and saffron. Quite an experience, that. You taste the kulfi, and then a second and a half later there is a second depth-charge of flavor from the saffron. Nabeel's Greek cafe in town is excellent. It family-run, has a genuine vibe, and attached to a goods store. The following dessert is great and a nice change: "YANNIS YOGURT--A Greek specialty that you won't find anywhere else and should not pass by. Homemade thick Greek Style (Sakoulas) Yoturt (sic)mixed with pure Athenian Honey and walnuts." It is next to a true-blue used-violin store and repair shop. Daniel George is another serious restaurant, but one which I have no experience with or opinion on. Ocean has a beautiful interior. Go there, and look through the window. Los Angeles and Sol y Luna were new in '02 but gained a decent reputation quickly. I also worked at the 11th Ave Grille (now Jim and Nick's Five Points, I think; not serious food, but really good brisket and good pork, chicken, and turkey smoked over hickory and really good people). They are part of the Jim and Nick's local barbeque/etc. chain, who does some not world-class, but really good, stuff. Everything is from scratch and you can taste this. Do NOT miss their pies. Made from scratch every day, including the crust. This is not your typical mediocre diner pie. Best lemon pie and chocolate silk pie I've ever had. I also worked at Anthony's Italian (now under new management; ask for Curtis to wait on you and tell him Chris sent you), and the Highland Coffee Company. The owner of the last is a prince--the best gerontologist in the city, who will roll up his sleeves and sling a good shot with the rest of the baristas on a busy Friday. He knows how to move behind an espresso bar. Their dubiously-titled general manager I worked under is no longer the general manager. I had to teach her how to steam milk. I can't speak for the quality of their coffee, as I don't know who manages quality control now, and they were relatively new when I worked for them four years ago. If they still shake in and strain their iced mochas out of martini shakers, to maximize volume of super-cold drink served for the money, you can thank me. They used to whip their whipped cream with a stand mixer, a nice touch, and used to mix in a pinch of ground espresso. Um, the mocha chocolate used to be Hershey's. Avoid the whole-bean Papua New Guinea, everything else was decent. And how could I forget O'Henry's. They roast there own beans, have good specialty (read "creative"), and have a real neighborhood atmosphere. Sit outside at a sidewalk table and watch the world go by. For chain barbeque I liked Full Moon. O.T.'s has very good sweet wings, a big ol' basket of them, for a fair price. V. Richard's is a good local gourmet grocery store, who will discount mixed cases of wine. Julia Child once lauded Cobb Lane's she-crab soup. There is a convenience store on Highland Ave. (?) west of Five Points which sells cigarettes from around the world at fair prices. It is next to a combination gyro shop/laundromat. Please resist the seemingly-uniquely Birminghamian tendancy to pluralize the names of all restaurants, etc. named in the singular ("Bottega's", etc.). And on a final note, go see the local band The Cast/Glen and Libba at least once (funk/soul. Just try not to dance. It's impossible). It won't be the last time. And tell them Chris, "The man who will dance by himself," sent you. And Downright, even though they lost a key member, was worth seeing too. The are all UAB music students/graduates and the drummer is a UAB percussion professor, and they really work the three/four part harmonies. I got turned on to them when I read that they did an all-Beastie Boys New Year's show once. They play an unlikely and thoroughly satisfying selection of cover songs, and some originals. And if you like to dance and are not homophobic go to The Quest (mixed crowd), or to The Station (straight; mostly hardcore rave kids). Edited to add The Red Pearl and O'Henry's. Edited again to add Sakura. And once more for Taj India's kulfi. Edited yet again for Dave's and Davenport's. Another for The Garage's sandwiches.

Well, my generally incoherent thoughts on this are as follows: Words are nothing but tools. This idea behind this thread was not the romantization or beauty of words, which you can usually enjoy in an appropriate context. It has more to do with clean versus sloppy thinking to me. There are those who prefer working in a chaotic environment. They might let their dishes pile up when they cook, and then clean it all at the end of the night, or more likely or often, get somebody else to do it for them. (Though I am sure you are a true dish dog [a complement, where I am from], NulloModo). Not me. I prefer to clean as I go--keeping my tools clean, and I prefer to use my tools well, as they were designed to be used. Sure, you can use the butt of your Wusthof as a pestle, but me, I'll get the pestle out of the drawer. This subject at hand has less to do for me with using a French word as the French would use it because, well oooh, how French of me, but because I get a particular, if grim, joy out of precision in application of technique, and out of efficiency. Why make up another prononciation when there is already a perfectly good one? To me, somebody who says they want their French Dip "with au jus," is either a) ignorant of the word's original origin, meaning, or usage (most likely), or b) intimidated by the idea of using a foreign word and is responding to an instinct to Americanize it, or c) plain lazy. I think the reastaurant manager (a dubious category if I ever heard of one) who boasted about his chef's "verblanc" probably has never picked up a book on French cooking, but was jazzed by the idea of being associated with French food somehow. That to me is laziness combined with ignorance. When one misuses words taken from another language, it also shows I think just a bit of disrespect for the language that gave us the word in the first place. Now I am no linguist, but I suspect that either we borrowed it because we didn't have an acceptable substitute in the first place, or the word came in organically through cultural mixing, or the foreign word just sounded so much cooler than ours did. Misusing the term I think lends to a sort of cultural isolationism for which we Americans are often reviled. I like the idea of paying a bit of respect to the language from which the word came by using it correctly. It makes me feel mindful of the influence that that particular culture contributed to my vocabulary and what it contributed to the subject at hand. I enjoy the concommitant feelings of gratitude and connectedness to that culture, in such a case, not because I want to sound or be French, but because I like the idea of different cultures/cuisines being linked in many ways and contributing to each other. I do believe that once a word's usage has become firmly entrenched, it is often a waste of energy to struggle against the common tide. My mother has constantly reminded me since my childhood that the proper prononciation of forte is "fort," but as 99% of the people I have ever met say "for-TAY," and I am really not interested in getting in a discussion on prononciation with 99% of the people I meet I don't bother to say anything. At this point, too, "for-TAY" has been so much accepted, that nothing I or any number of "grammar nazis" say is going to change much. See the following entry for forte at Webster's Online for some enlightening commentary. I have long heard that a new word often gains permanent credibility when it is used in a publication such as the New York Times. Perhaps an editorial in the Times or some other similar media source might change the direction of things with regards to the usage of any give word, but it would take a true wordsmith with uncanny powers of argument and a knack for the popular voice to really start any momentum, I think. What I am saying is that past a certain point there is often no going back. Also, you have to choose your battles, and forte is a word that is so seldom used that its fate doesn't matter too much to me. On the other hand, when one becomes personally invested in any realm of human endeavor to a certain degree, one often begins to appreciate specificity. Describing something accurately is part of appreciating it well, and the further you wade into a subject and the broader and deeper and more complex it becomes in your sights, the greater the need for explicit and exact terms to sort out all the phenomina that you are presented with. The better your word for something, the better you can think about it, I say, and the better you can engage in what the word refers to. I generally regard eGullet as a community of such dedicated folks, who care about perpetuating and advancing the notion of integrity in all things culinary. I mean, goodness' sake, they made me write an essay to get on here! If there were ever a community which would be interested in promoting quality of thought when it comes to food, it might be something like this one. And part of high quality thinking is living by high standards when it comes to expression. While it may be a waste of time to expect everybody to go around correcting perfect strangers on their use of "au jus," I think people like us are perfect canidates for standing against this rising wave of ignorance that will likely add one more element of ambiguity in the already often unclear realm of communication. I mean, I don't care enough about politics (sheepish grin) to get into it with anybody on who our next presidential canidates should be. My supply of resources is not great enough and personal scope of interests is not wide enough to devote myself to complete rigor and richness of knowledge in all subjects. But I care about food, and as best I can I will try to be an example of clarity in expression and faithfulness to meaning when it comes to discussing it. After all this, I must concede that every language has its own rythms and often-unconciously-felt natural aesthetic lines. It is no surprise to me that words morph when they have been in the context of a different language's aethetic for long enough. I think that it is part of the give-and-take involved in the growth of any culture. I think, though, that it is more on the "take" side. The "give" side has to do with, I would say, staying connected to the history of the features of any given culture, and that includes its terminology. Chris, word nazi, who had to look up how to spell "rhythm."

I thought all tomatoes were round.....

Whew! Checked Webster's Online and got this, Apparently, both are acceptable variations, though I couldn't say if my spelling is a modern interloper, a la "soot." Ah...yes...as I am now reading that it says this English word is from the French "restaurateur," it looks as though that is the case. Thanks for the heads-up.

They still had it a few months ago, you just have to ask for it. For me, it is the breakfast menu at Wendy's. Scrambled egg sandwiches on toast, French toast, I forget what else. After my parents got divorced my Dad used to pick my brother and I up sometimes and take us out to breakfast and then drop us off at school. We went other places too, but the Wendy's breakfasts really linger in my memory. Also, the Chicken Club sandwich at Wendy's. I don't see that on the menus anymore. And the triangle shaped Cinnamon Crispas at Taco Bell. And of course the McDLT. And, best of all, the McDonalds "Mac Tonight" commercials with the guy in the tuxedo and the big quarter-moon head sitting on a rooftop with the city all around, singing his heart out....kind of freaky but so cool.

Actually, I have heard that scampi are actually langoustines, sometimes cooked with garlic, oil/butter, herbs, and maybe wine. "Shrimp scampi" is actually shrimp cooked in the style scampi are typically (?) cooked in. Can any eGullet fact-checkers confirm this one? I should Google, but it's late and I'm tired......... Will edit this embarrassing admission tomorrow after I Google.

It is? I wouldn't have understood the intended meaning of that pronunciation! ← Believe that. It's on Webster's Online, as, well, 'süt, "a matched set of furniture." But here in the Southeast, we don't quibble about umlauts and such, and "soot" it is. Though I wouldn't be caught dead......

Right on. What about sectioning beef bones to open up the marrow to the stockpot, etc.? Is this basically a job for a professional butcher with a bone saw? What about tasks that are somewhat intermediate between cutting chicken and beef bones? Er, splitting lobster shells? Thanks.

Hey eGullet, I have heard a few funnies in restaurants, and the one I hear most often is a customer who wants extra "au jus" for their mashed potatoes, etc. If I am not mistaken, "au jus" means "with the juice", i.e. with the gravy, sauce, etc. Well, I guess this is not so funny. I imagine "au jus" will eventually make it into Webster's as "gravy," the same way "bedroom soot" is now an accepted prononciation for bedroom suite, etc. Another one was a go-getter restauranteur who went on and on about the "verblanc" sauces his chefs made. Er, that's 'b&r 'bla(n), according to Webster's Online. I imagine such utterances come most often from genuine, widespread, and this somewhat excusable ignorance, a la "au jus," or sloppy pretentiousness masking as trade knowledge--thus "verblanc." Oh, and did I mention the same fellow kept talking about his restaurant's "steak ah pwah?" Webster's again: O-'pwäv(r&) Of course I find the pretentious gits funny, and the truly ignorant just, well.....slightly dismaying. Heard any good/frustrating ones lately?

Hey eGullet, I was frustrated at a restaurant I used to wait at by the tinny smell of the canned artichoke hearts we would use on our Greek salads (packed in water or brine, I forget). Would a most conscientious cook, i.e. Thomas Keller, cook them fresh for his salads, or do canned/jarred products have a flavor all their own, and are subsequently different animals than their just-cooked counterparts? Canned tuna, especially the super-expensive imported, packed in good olive oil stuff, which is supposed to be heavenly and which I have never tasted might be on the same level as a well-cooked piece of fresh tuna, but seems to be definately a different thing altogether. What should one cook fresh instead of using the jarred/canned bits, and what should one respect as a unique product in its own right? Thank you.

Hey eGullet, I think I posted on this earlier, but I couldn't find it. When soaking dried mushrooms, one is advised to change the water several times. Why? And would it ever be appropriate to use the soaking water in the resulting sauce/finished dish? Why or why not? Also, when would this apply to other ingredients you might soak to reconstitute? Thanks a lot.

Hey eGullet, I have been reading a bit in various knife/cookware catalogs about recent offset bread knife offerings from Trident, etc. The idea is that, with the blade lower than the handle, you get good knuckle clearance when cutting that loaf. Have you used them? Do you like them better than a straight blade? What would you say is a good minimum blade length? Trident, I think, makes a nice forged 8" model, though someone posted in a recent thread that they thought that anything less than 10" was far too short. Also, would you drop the extra $ for a forged blade, seeing as how one wouldn't be using this too often? Also, what might these be good for besides bread? Tomatoes? Cold cuts? Henckels, I think, makes a deli "super slicer", not offset, but serrated. As ever, thanks. Edit: This post may seem a bit repetitive, but as it was combined into this thread from an original thread as a starter post, I cry your pardon. I guess the new relevant questions from my post have mostly to do with blade length, and to what extent you all have found the offset knives to be better that straight ones, and forged vs. stamped blades, which really has to do with how effectively one can sharpen a serrated blade, thus leading to a more expensive forged blade being a keeper. Any thoughts?

Hey eGullet, My workhorse knife is a Trident 8", and I am wondering: should I cut through bones with this thing? I mostly deal with chicken bones, but realize I will be dealing with turkey/pork/beef bones in the course of things. Should I purchase a meat cleaver for these tasks, and if so, which ones do you recommend? No $100 wonders, please, as this will be pretty task-specific, and not for general use. What about an inexpensive heavy Chinese cleaver? Thanks, Chris

We just ordered Diana Bellucci's How To Pronounce French, German, and Italian Wine Names for our wine shop. It also has Spanish and Portuguese wine pronunciations. My linguistics B.A., French-speaking co-worker, by the way, can say "milles fuilles," (sp?) but I can barely remember how she said it, much less reproduce it on my computer...... sigh. By the way, we got it used from www.abebooks.com, for much less than retail. A great source for the poor cookbook collector! Also try www.bookfinder.com, www.bibliofind.com, www.alibris.com, and www.jessicasbiscuit.com.

Hey eGullet, At my wine shop job, one or more distributor reps come in once a week to taste us a few wines. About a month ago, we sampled the Beaucanon Chardonnay. I thought it was wonderful. Honey and hazelnuts all the way. Anybody else tried this wine? It would go at our shop for abourt $12. Not bad....... Thanks. BTW, I have recruited a few select oaky Chard fans to go in with me on a case of the stuff, as our boss didn't pick it for the store. I'm pretty stoked. Hope those who jumped on the bandwagon like it too.

My first job was at a Taco Bell in '93. I think they lost something when the Cinnamon Crispas went from triangles to twists. Though some locations do sell the Choco Taco for dessert. Ummmmm!

Thanks for the reply. BTW, wine-lovers-page.com is now wineloverspage.com It didn't automatically redirect, and I had to go through my browser's search results page to find this out. Best, Chris

Well, this is late, as the tasting was on the 16th, but here goes. Please remember that I am a novice, so my tasting notes won't be the most articulate.... My boss had mentioned about a week before that he wanted to open up a different bottle before we tasted the D'Yquem to get thing going a bit. When Mike G. and Steve and Diane C. arrived, he did that (an Italian red) and we all settled into some light but excellent conversation about food, wine, local restaurants, etc. He also broke out the cheese--our nearby shop was out of Roquefort (!), the classic match for Sauternes, and the shop helper recommended Point Reyes a blue from California. Was it a good substitution? I don't know. It was good cheese, though. After the red was gone, he got down on eye level and carefully poured out equal servings into his four borrowed and my one newly-purchased Spiegelau dessert wine glasses. The atmosphere was a little charged.... Color: An attractive mid-range gold. Very attractive. Nose: A deep, very raw honey aroma. It also had a deep extra quality that was almost dirt-like, in positive way. I won't say earthy, as in moist earth after a rain earthiness, but there was definately a dry-ish soil-ish quality in there somewhere. Call me crazy.... Added a complex note, that I obviously couldn't identify. Botrytis? Of course, I was furiously sniffing for white flowers, and I may have imagined them, but couldn't truly say. At this point I looked around, ready to say "who wants to go first?," when Diane took her first sip. We all followed suit. Flavor: Deep honeyed flavors to start with. And that quality I couldn't satisfactorily describe above.... The flavor was very intense, insistent, and super powerful. It kept almost throbbing in my mouth..... may need to edit that. It was definately a well-balanced, well-rounded wine, with immense presence. Not to say it was big, but definately super-charged. My boss said later "candied apricots." I'm not sure about that one, but I don't doubt he tasted them. Subjective impressions: Confession time. It was beautful in the glass. It smelled awesome. And the flavor? At first, I was like, "hmm. Wow. That's impressive." And I waited a second for the joy to kick in. It didn't, so I took another sip. Just as impressive. I thought to myself, "I really want to like this." Meanwhile, everybody was oohing and wowing and mmmming and saying "nice." I kept going. And the objective impression of tasting a world-class wine began to be overshadowed that I really did not love what I was drinking. As I continued to sip, I found I did not even like what I was drinking. The last few sips I took in a bit of a small gulp, to kind of get it all over with, I am afraid to say. It was definately an awesome wine, again objectively speaking, but I am sad to say that I did not at all like the most fabled dessert wine in the world. It was so intense, too, that I imagine there would never have been two ways about it; either the category was for me, or it was not, and that wine presented itself so strongly and so well that I was left with no doubts clouded by an overly subtle experience. At first I was at a loss, and after the others left, I somewhat reluctantly confided my reaction to my boss, afraid he might think I was an idiot. Of course I soon remebered one of my favorite mantras, "different strokes, I guess." It definately gave me food for thought for a couple of days, though. I have already discerned that I will probably never love wine like I love coffee and tea, but after tasting one of the ne-plus-ultra examples of wine, might wine eventually never have a place in my life at all? Ah well, I had already found a few wines I love (Muga Rioja, Altos Las Hormigas Malbec, Green and Red Zin), and am still holding out hopes for the dessert wine category. I just won't be dropping money on a Sauternes any time soon. The more serious among you may say that such a wine was wasted on somebody who was going to be this irreverant and/or inept at processing/reporting my impressions. I did my best to get the most out of the experience though, and am glad I started this project. You only live once, and before I knew that some wine bars sell D'Yquem by the glass, my idea was that it would be a long time before I might have this chance again. Anyway, hope this post amused you. Your reactions? edited to change "tasing notes" to "tasting notes." That would be an entirely different post, on an entirely different website.