phaelon56

Back in the dark days of the late '80s when I was emerging from years of haze.... I had a GF of Puerto Rican ancestry. She introduced me to Hispanic style coffee. Just boil some water, throw in a generous amount of Bustelo to steep for several minutes and then pour it through the little cloth windsock style filter assembly that the bodegas and Spanish markets sell. Add 1 part hot milk to 1 part coffee - yum! It was way better than the espresso I could get at the time. I still enjoy stoping into the little Spanish luncheonettes when I'm in NYC and getting a cafe con leche - threy just use Bustelo in an espresso machine and add the hot milk and sugar. At about $1 a pop it's better than most of the $3 and $4 you can buy elsewhere in the city. Chris Coffee has pods that are a trifle cheaper and likely taste darn close to Illy but they still net out to 50 cents each. I've seen the Illy for under 60 cents each. It's just in hte nature of pods that they'll always cost more. Good quality fresh microroaster coffee should run about $12.00 per pound if you buy online and spread the shipping costs across a multi-pound order (see recent thread on freezing for how to handle and store a quantity of fresh coffee). Assuming that you use 7 grams per shot to make espresso ( I use 18 grams for a double shot in my machine but the Francis basket should hold about 7 grams per shot for a single shot)..... cost per shot for the coffee is about 18 cents vs. 59 cents for the Illy pods. With a good grinder, quality whole bean espresso blend and proper technique, you'll get espresso that's noticeably better than the pods but that doesn't factor in the convenience factor. Long term, I've found that once I got a routine established for my shot making process, it became quick, relatively tidy and quite painless. The reduced cost and increased quality justify an investment in a good grinder when you're ready.

If I was still unwise enough to drink alcohol (there's a good reason why I'm a hard core espresso and coffee drinker ) ..... I'd either be adding Tia Maria to my black coffee or better yet, drinking B&B from a snifter with black coffee on the side in between sips.

Hello to all you self professed coffee and tea geeks and fiends (even those with just a passing interest). I was delighted when eGullet's Craig Camp recently advised me that a separate Coffee and Tea forum would be launched and asked me to serve as moderator. I imagine some sort of "formal' introduction will be posted by eGullet but I'll throw in the basic details here. A native of Syracuse NY, I spent several years in Ithaca in the early '90s, subsequently relocated to the NYC area for another four years, eventually returning to Syracuse several months ago for work related reasons. A personal interest in food and beverage dates back to the late 1970's when I worked as a busboy, waiter and bartender. My exposure to better quality coffee and the benefits of grinding fresh whole beans dates back to 1980. Fast forward to 2001. Frequent business travel exposed me to better quality but still inadequate espresso and cappuccino. A budding interest in the flexibility and benefits of quality home espresso production led me along a learning path that I still enjoy traveling. Although far from an expert, my interest in the entire process of coffee and espresso, from growing to brewing and even retailing, has prompted me to search regularly for information and increased knowledge. I look forward to some spirited exchange of ideas in this forum. My knowledge of tea is limited but I'll work on improving that as time progresses. For the record.... my current setup includes: Isomac Tea E61 style espresso machine Mazzer Mini Grinder Thor amboyna wood custome tamper Mellita cones for drip coffee (two sizes) Alpenroast drum roaster Cheap Proctor-Silex drip maker (even I have company once in awhile!) I have for some time been attempting to combine my interest in coffee and espresso with my love for travel. My personal web site offers the first glance at this although it is sorely in need of an update. Those with a travel interest might also take a gander at my one and only "published" article http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/cafestage/02-25-2003

It saves it within reason and if proper packaging, freezing and thawing techniques are deployed, it's the next best thing to home roasting or buying fresh from a local microroaster. I'll save myself some keystrokes and take the liberty of pasting in a reply I posted in a different forum some months ago: "Properly packaged and sealed beans in a good cold freezer will deteriorate more slowly than beans at room temp, even beans stored in commercial vacuum sealed bags with a one way valve. Proper sealing and storing in individual containers that are only opened after they are defrosted (one at a time as needed) will eliminate the issues of condensation and also contamination from other foods, smells etc. Refrigerator storage is always a bad idea due both to exposure to other food smells, condensation form opening and closing the container etc. - NEVER refrigerate coffee. The practice of using freshly roasted beans and storing in an opaque airtight container is unquestionably the best choice but for some of us it's not always possible. If you have no good local microroaster or one that's convenient, you're not home roasting and also don't want to incur the extra shipping costs of getting mail order beans every 7 - 10 days.... buying fresh roasted beans in larger quanitities and sealing/freezing beans is the next best option. I have actually done a side by side comparison. I had a 1/2 lb vacuum sealed bag of Torrefazione Italia's Perugia whole bean espresso blend that had been placed in the freezer after being wrapped in another plastic bag (placed it in there just after receiving the shipment). About three months after doing this, I discovered another 1/2 lb bag from the same shipment that I had stuck in the cupboard at room temp and overlooked. I opened both bags and made some espresso shots. The frozen and thawed beans were (to my taste) indistinguishable from the taste and characteristics that they possessed when I first opend a bag from the original shipment. The beans from the vaccuum sealed bag that sat at room temp for three or four months were stale and flat tasting with no crema (vs. fresh taste and decent crema on the frozen and thawed beans). It's a fact that there is absolutely no way to PREVENT the gradual deterioration of the essential flavor components of roasted coffee beans but IMHO and based on personal experience, freezing does help slow down the process significantly (disclosure: now that I home roast and have also relocated to a town with an excellent local microroaster I no longer bother to freeze because I don't need to).

Reviewed their web site. Certainly interesting and worth stacking up against Illy and LaVazza as a reference point but I still believe that domestically produced espresso blends and coffee from quality microroasters is the way to go. It's very difficult to know exactly when a bag of whole bean coffee that was shipped from Italy was actually roasted and packed. Buying from the right US based microroasters can assure the proprietor of serving coffee that is within that crucial 2 - 10 day time period after roasting, during which any fresh roasted coffee is capabel of yielding optimal results. Vacuum packing can slow down but not stop the chemical process by which coffee deteriorates after roasting. That said... buying foil bags from a wholesaler is a good option for some shops who lack the expertise or resources needed to establish and maintain tight control over rotating inventory from a microroaster. I've actualy enjoyed the LaVazza I've had ins smoe cafes much more than the Illy and look froward to being able to try the Hausbrandt.

I think the average Starbucks barista probably makes more than most busboys do. The issue (to me) seems to be less a matter of labor cost than it is one of priorities on the part of management and ownership. There are a number of pioneering restarauteurs in the US who led the way in using the freshest regional and local ingredients in their cooking in addition to having a staff swize adequate to ensure proper preparation and presentation. The practice has become far more widespread and consumers gladly pay the higher cost to eat in such establishments. Production of proper espresso is sooooo easy to control if one has the desire. It's also easy to train anyone in the process and practice if proper mentoring and motivation (both financial and advancement opportunities) is provided. I would gladly pay $4 for a properly made doppio ristretto or cappuccino in a restaurant if I could actually find one where it was available. Regrettably, I remain confined to my own kitchen when I want a really good drink. There's now way that it could or should cost more than $4 - $5 for a double espresso even in a fine dining restaurant.

I think the plastic pod system used on Nespresso and similar systems is better than the paper filter enclosed pods used in Illy's ESE sytems and its equivalents but does the Nespresso system produce good espresso or is it targeted at the cafe crema market? Philips has a system that has been a huge success in the netherlands and elsewhere - a single serving pod system similar to this that producs truly excellent cafe cremas. I believe they are now launching it in the states through Williams-Sonoma. Not to nit pick and I could be wrong but I suspect the crema it produces is to some extent due to a crema enhancing filter. This typ of crema looks great but doesn't have the buttery mouthfeel of a true crema that comes form fresh ground freshly roasted beans, proper brew temps etc. That said, I do agree tha many high end restaurants could benefit greatly by adopting a good pod based system for both their coffee by the cup and their espresso based drinks. When I was in Ireland earlier this year, the only good coffee I had was that which I purchased in grocery or convenience stores. The rectangular pods (they look like a squared off and flatter version of the nespresso pod) are purchased at the register by the each and the customer then sticks it in the machine. The coffee was just about as god as I can get in the typical cafe in the US and IMHO better than the average Starbucks cup.

Another former busboy weighing in here. I think the point is now well established that there is no slight intended against busboys or anyone else who is preparing the espresso. The responsibility lies with ownership/management. The notion that they can save money by using cheaper products is ludicrous when carefully examined. The best (and even the average) restaurants, are supposed to be food AND beverage establishments. A high end restaurant won't save money by using crappy tomatoes when heirlooms are available but it seems that they won't hesitate to use cheaper coffee or skimp on the training and machine maintenance necessary. Today's generation of superauto mahcines are capable of producing remarkably god results on the espresso side but proper steaming for cappas and lattes is an art accompl;ished only by those wiling to invest the time to learn. Keep in mind that the superauto's I refer to are about $15 - $20 K and found only in newer Starbucks for the most part. What about pods? There are pods availabel from folks other than Illy that are cheaper but still have top quality espresso in them. A properly produced pod is produced in a nitrogen enriched environment (i.e. none of that nasty oxygenpresent) - ground from fresh roasted beans and then sealed airtight in individual wrapers. Pods will never produce the same results as properly ground and tamped fresh beans but in many places they really are the best choice but don't get used because they "cost too much". Instead, folks think they're doing us a favor by buying giant cans of Illy or LaVazza, roasted who knows when and then the vacuum sealed can is opened and it takes weeks before all the beans are used. Yuch. Give me pods in that scenario - they're not great but they are consistent. I still maintain that there are those of us who really appreciate good coffee and especially good espresso who would line up on a regular basis to dine at places that address our desires. I really don't relish the idea of going out to dinner and havign to go hoem to get sa good espresso but that's what happens. By the way.... the best cappuccino I ever had in a restaurant was at a little Italian place on Caye Caulker, a small island with a fishing village off the coast of Belize. The owner was a native of Milan Italy - he used an old la Pavoni manual lever machine and the beans were single varietal Gutemalan of unknown origin (he just used whatever his wholesale supplier in Belize City had available at the time). The point is that a fancy machine and the snazziest blend of beans still doesn't produce a great result without the right operator. I also happen to think that the average busboy would likely make a better barista than the average waiter due to motivation. When the profession of barista becomes a more respected career path in the USit may change many things but in the meantime we struggle in the search for good restaurant coffee. Steve Klc - have you tried Stumptown Roasters Hairbender blend yet? I'm hearing really good things about it.

Cheap blade grinders are IMO generally as good and typically better than cheap burr grinders. I say either get a cheap blade grinder and use a gold mesh cone for manual drip coffee rather than using a french press or bite the bulet and look around for a Solis Maestro - should be able to find one for about $90 - $100. The inconsistent particle size and fines produced from cheap grinders WILL result in sludge in your French Press coffee. If that's not a probelm just get the blade grinder - it should produce less heat and about the same consistency as a cheap burr grinder. The Maestro is the cheapest burr grinder you can buy that will produce a good enough grind to make decent espresso in an entry level espresso machine (i.e. about $200 - $300). The person who mentioned $250 as the entry point for a quality grinder capable of producing best results on better espresso machien is correct. That unit would typically be the Rancilio Rocky but careful shopper may find a unit like the Anfim or Cunill Tranquilo for about $200 or less. Noisier but also very good. The gold cone filter wil llet many of the soluble flavor oils through that get trapped in paper filters. I happen to prefer filtered coffee to french press but most French Press drinkers have a strong preference for gld mesh filter coffee over paper filters. It's worth looking into.

I drink my drip coffee in a favored straigt sided mug. It's white glazed with a gold rim and has the logo for Syracuse's Landmark Theatre on it, a venue where I ran the bar on a part time basis for years. Part of my attraction is sentimental but on closer inspection I notice that it it has a thinner lip than my other mugs and the sipping experience is more pelasing in a subtle way for that reason (I think). Espresso and lattes are a diiferent story. I've tried the Ikea 365 series, great bowl shape and inexpensive but very thin wall and heat retention is not good. I'm now using Inox 18/10 double wall stainless steel cappa and latte cups made by Frabosk. Expensive but worth it. I have the two larger sizes and will add the espresso demitasse size later. They're about $15 per cup and saucer combo but last forever and when preheated with really hot tap water they keep the drink warm for a remarkably long time so you can enjoy it slowly. I make a 1.5 oz ristretto shot (restricted pull double espresso) and top it off with 4.5 oz of foamed milk in my 6 oz cup - excellent! Even more conveneint is the fact that the espresso machine type I have uses somethign known as the E61 style grouphead design - keeps hot water circulating throgh the head assembly for best temp stability. Because it is a heat exchanger machine (capable of steaming while puling shots), the brew water is a bit too hot for ideal shots after the machine has first warmed up or when it has been idle for a bit. The standard solutio is to draw off about 4- 6 oz of water through the empty portafilter before puling the first shot of the session. I just use this hot water to pre-heat the cup and no more trying to figure out how much water to pull off. I think I want a latte.....

There was a very interesting article a while back in the Washington Post's business section about how they choose their locations. If I can find it I will post a link. I recently relocatd to Syracuse NY, which until recently had no Starbucks at al. Even now there are only two: one on the edge of the SU campus near the hospital complex (three large hospitals and a med school all adjacent to one another) and the other on a main drag in a middle class suburb with loads of vehicular traffic. Syracuse is a blue collar town whose manufacturing industries are rapidly disappearing - Starbucks goes where the money is. Interestingly enough, we have an eastern suburb (Fayetteville) that is decidely upscalae and upper income - it could easily support a 'buck location. reliabel sources tell me that they researched vehicle traffic patterns there for a year or so and settled on one specific location that they believed would work for them - when the real estate was unavailable they walked. New Orleans: Yes I had difficulty finding good coffee there but once I tried a CC location I was all set - they do indeed do a good job with their java and espresso drinks.

No. Not apart from the fact that it was about the diameter of Italian sausage, had an appearance akin to chorizo but with a softer texture and much less spicy. The flavor was nicely subtle. Perhaps it's some special Argentinean sausage that costs a lot more? (not that there was all that much of it in the dish).

I'm not a fan of their drip coffee nor do I like their roasting style but as a diehard coffeegeek and espresso enthusiast, I'm indebted to for increasing awareness of coffee and espresso issues in general. They roast too dark which masks the subtleties fo flavor in most varietal beans. The upside for them is that it's a "signature" roast but much more important, roasting dark masks the variations that occur in varietal beans and allows them to have their massive batches come out with a fairly consistent flavor profile (even if it's not a good one). I've had their coffee ground on someone's home and made on a good drip coffee maker - it was not bad at all. The problem with their prep method in the sotres is that they use way more than the proscribed amount of coffee grounds per ounce of water. The result is a murky brew with amped up caffiene content. I can tolerate it only if I add about 1 part hot water to each 4 parts of coffee in the cup. Manhattan alone has over 70 Starbucks stores - the reason they have them so close together is that they've done their homework - they know the pedestrian (or vehicular in the suburbs) traffic patterns and they put them where the numbers work for them. By the way.... the airport kiosk Starbucks are all owned and run by Host Marriott Corporation - all other Starbucks are corporate stores. The rapid growth has led to a staffing issue - many baristas are just there to push the button and get a check. It's understandeable and the response has been to shift from the venerable La Marzocco machines over to high end superautos. like it or not, in the hands of an inexperienced or indifferent barista, a superauto delivers a much better and more consistent result than the LM. The issue of espresso to milk ratio is a big problem and the Starbuck approach (lots of hot milk with a little espresso) has crept into many other cafes who hpe to be successful by patternign themselves after the 'bucks. A better approach is to focus on espresso quality - good espresso will stand up to smaller portions of milk and taste rich not bitter. There are many indepedents out there following this approach and having great success. I myself prefer a 1 part espresso to 3 parts milk ratio but only a truly quality shot of espresso will taste good at this ratio unless you dose the drink with sugar. When I'm in South Florida? Cuban coffee walkup windows win out every time - it's half the price (or much less) and tastes better.

Hey Michael - nice to see you here! Keep checking back - we will soon have a separate forum section here dedicated to coffee and tea.

My hometown of Syracuse NY has the legendary revolving restaurant that never revolved. We never got an explanation of whether the mechanical components failed to function or whether they nixed the revolving feature due to budget. The Holiday Inn on Almond street near downtown Syracuse was opened in the mid 60's and had the "Top of The Inn" restaurant advertised as revolving but it never did. They also had cocktail waitresses dressed as "foxes" (an homage to Hef's "Buny" concept). Needless to say - it was not a success. How appropriate that this appeared in Dave Barry's most recent column....

I've weighed in on this topic previously and still feel the same way - the coffee in expensive restaurants is usually mediocre or just okay. Gramercy Tavern has surprisingly good coffee but when I ordered coffee at Fleur de Sel they brough individual french presses for each of us and had already plunged the press (after letting the coffee steep for about a minute or so). It was so rank and watery we sent it back and the replacement wasn't much better. I had coffee after dinner at Danube and it was good but not stellar. At $4 per cup (yes that's right - $4) they could afford to offer a better product. Liek one of the other posters here - I take my coffee seriously, do my own roasting at home and have a serious espresso setup. That said.... with a $1500 espresso setup I can produce espresso, capas and lattes better than I've ever had in a restaurant. Keep in mind that it's not all about the equipment. I use a $10 Proctor-Silex drip maker, a $20 whirly-blade grinder and a $6 Wal-Mart carafe to make my drip coffee. It blows away anything I've ever had in a restaurant and rivals the best cafe coffee that I've ever had. The idea of an espresso and coffee cart is a good one but the issue of power for the machine and the noise of steaming ina subdued high end dining room presents problems. An acquaintance of mine from an online coffee community happens to be "in the business" and has made numerous presentation to high end restaurants in the CT and NYC area to offer training, equipoment and products for a high end "coffee service" - he generally gets blown off and the typical comment is that they can't justify the small extra expense. Most of these places continue to have waiters or bus personnel making the coffee and espresso drinks. Any of them could do a good job if they just adhered to some simple standards and procedures for equipment, product, maintenance and training but it's a catch 22 - those of us who would spend the money for god coffee service don't because it isn't offered. It isn't offered because the restarauteurs seem to think it won't sell well enough to justify the extra effort. IMHO it's a golden opportunity for some ambitious restarauteur to step up to the plate. I don't go out for truly "fine dining"very often for monetary reasons but when I do, I expect everythign from the decor to the coat check to the bar to the service to be of the highest standards (quality of the food should go without saying). Why should coffee and espresso be any different? By the way.... in NYC I'm hard pressed to find a place to go after dinner that has consistently excellent coffee and espresso based drinks - there's a small handful but they're far and few between.

My lunch was in the front room - the tavern area. They really have their act together. I enjoy having fresh lime juice with my traditional pre-meal tonic water - outside of Central American and Mexico where fresh lime juice is abundant and widely used, GT is the only place that has actually offered me a small glass of lime juice on the side to add to my tonic. They even bring simple syrup on the side for those ordering unsweetened iced tea. These may seem like small touches but they add up to a class act. Also... the chocolate malted ice cream is killer - has to be tried.

Many good points have been made here. Most significan tis hte fact that it was my responsibility to ask and I failed to do so. That said.... I can easily understand how special seasonal ingredients, fish that's brought in in limited quantities unusual prep methjd etc can all drive up the price of "specials" but this one just seemd to be good old fashioned price gouging. I hardly consider chicken, sausage, peas or brown sauce and sweet red peppers to be unusual ingredients that the average Italian restaurant would not already have on hand. Mea culpa and it won't happen again. By the way.... I walked right by Meli Melo on Madison near 29th on my way to this place. Now wishing I had tried it - any feedback on it? Looked like a nice place - French and Mediterranean menu and moderately priced.

I'll have to respectuflly disagree with Jared on the Lemongrass. I like the atmosphere but really prefer the food I've had at Erewhan. Sources tell me that Bangkok Thai in Liverpool is the best of the bunch but I haven't yet had a chance to try them. Have not tried Dino in Rochester and I only get takeout once in a rare while at the Syracuse location. I consider Dino to be the best of the easily available local BQ choices but the ribs I make at home in my electric smoker are so much better that I rarely buy from them. They've always done a credible job IMHO but it's typically and hour or two wait for a table and I lack the patience. I do plan to try L'Adour again this week or next. Also just recieved an email from a chowhounder that I helped out with some tips - he tried Horned Dorset on a recent pass through the area and said it was very good and worth a visit. A bit pricey but they are offering a $25 three course price fixe for a limited time.

Yes.... unjustified I think. I'm still kicking myself for not askign the price as I dont' think I've ever ordered a special without asking the price but so often they're seafood, beef or veal dishes with a twist and the price seems less predictable. By the way.... the entree was a generous portion and interesting in that the sausage seemed to be somewhere in between chorizo and Italian sausage - not the stuff one usually finds in Italian restaurants. The minestrone soup, OTOH, was okay as a vegetable soup (lots of fresh zucchini, carrots etc.) but it was not like any minestrone I've ever had. It had a fairly bland vegetable broth as a base and had absolutely NOT pasta or tomoatoes.

I was sorely disappointed in my $100 plus lunch there last summer. That was for two people but the only alcohol was one glass of house wine and my dining partner had the special $20 lunch tasting menu. We were both underwhelmed by the food but the atmopshere was pleasant. It's a small place. We were seated at a banquette in the back corner and had a nice view of all who came and went - I thought it as a good place to sit but it's a small place and I dont' think there's a "bad table" per se. Our experience seems to be an anomaly - many others have posted here with favorable reports. I should note that we had planned to eat in the front room at Gramercy Tavern (it was a Saturday) but decided to not to wait an hour for a table - opted for Fleur de Sel instead. Since then I have had lunch (late on a weekday) at GT and felt that it blew away Fleur de Sel for lunch - far better value for the money and markedly superior service. I have not eaten dinner at either and can comment only on my lunch experiences.

Just back from a short business trip to my favorite place - NYC. Had dinner by myself Friday night and decided to try an Argentian Italian restaurant, Il Campanello, on West 31st Street. I stumbled across it by accident the previous evening when walking to my hotel and it looked nice enough so off I went the following evening for a meal. Most of the pasta dishes were $12 - $13 and the chicken dishes were all in the $14 - $15 range with no exceptions. The waiter mentioned the dinner specials and a chicken dish with sausage, peas and a brown sauce sounded appealing so I ordered it. Imagine my surprise when the bill arrived and the entree was $19!!! I typically always ask the price of any special before ordering and suppose it was my own fault for failing to do so this time but come on.... get real.... a $4 upcharge because it was the "special"? Am I being naive or unrealistic to think that it should be approximately the same price range or perhaps a $1 or $2 more at most than all the other comparable chicken dishes on the menu? Have others of you encountered this as a trend or practice in places where you've dined recently, NYC or otherwise? Just curious....

Prices sure can add up quickly even at lunch. Last year I took a friend out for her birthday lunch on a Saturday. We stopped by Gramercy Tavern to eat in the front room but had just missed the first rush in and would have had a one hour wait. On a lark we decided to try Fleur de Sel. She had the $20 tasting menu and a glass of wine, I had tonic water (just one glass), appetizer, entree and dessert. We both had coffee. Total with tax and tip was about $110 - $115 despite her having selected the $20 tasting menu. I'm no gourmand but she is definitely well acquainted with haute dining - we both found the food to be average to a bit above average but not memorable. The press pot coffee was so bad I had to send it back and explain to them how it should be served. Ou experience may have been a fluke - I've heard good things about this place but as others have mentioned.... I could be very happy eating some great ethnic food at 1/10 the price.

IMHO when prices are this high and the restauant has itself positioned in the upper tier of NYC dining AND has been at it for a long time..... I don't think it should be necessary to call a manager over. If water and/or wine glasses are not being refilled when they should be, the manager or some other front end person should be picking up on this. It's their job to oversee front end staff and ensure that the diner's experience is a good one. If it was a new place or perhaps a small and moderately priced joint where they lack the financial resources to monitor the front end as intensively, I agree that the manager should be apprised of the situation. I just don't see any excuse for a place of Bouley's stature to drop the ball in this manner. I vote with my feet and my wallet in such situations.

I've had the Potuguese style preparation of goat but I second the motion for curry goat... I suspect there's more goat consumed in the US than you might imagine. It's a stale menu item in Jamaican restaurants and as someone else mentioned - a Jamaican party just isn't a real party without curry goat. I love Jamaican food and it's by far my favorite dish.