philadining

vientiane is at 48th & baltimore? i went by last night (on my way back from a great dinner at marigold) and it's on the corner of 43rd & spruce. in fact, i suspect that the websites where you might have gotten that address are old--i think that vientiane was up on baltimore when it was the blue tent semi-legal restaurant. that spot is now meskerem ethiopian, i think... ← Nope, Katie's got the right address for Vientiane, there's indeed a place at 43rd and Baltimore, but that ain't Vientiane Cafe... edit to add details: The Place at 43rd and Spruce is "Pho and Cafe Saigon" http://www.ucityphila.com/world_cuisine/li...Type=Vietnamese

Or if you're running short on time and want a quick bite from a truck, I'm not sure this is totally up-to-date, and it's totally subjective, but interesting: Food Truck Guide from some folks at the Penn Linguistics dept.

Yue Kee, parked on 38th St. between Walnut & Spruce St.

I met a friend at Senora's in West Chester tonight. This place was a favorite of mine when it first opened, it was fairly traditional Mexican, casual and cheap, which was pretty rare around here a few years back... The folks out front are mostly are college students, but the kitchen is still staffed mostly by Mexican cooks, so there's a certain level of authenticity, even if the menu's a bit buffed and dumbed-down for American tastes. Even so, there's some good stuff on the menu if you order carefully. I almost always get what they call Duelling Tacos (one each of their Tampico and El Mundo Tacos.) The El Mundo is herby, juicy, deeply-flavored, stewed, shredded chicken, served with a dollop of decent guac. The Tampico is similarly tasty stewed, shredded beef. Both are dressed with shredded lettuce and boring cheese, but still, very tasty tacos. I often forget how they make them here and order an Al Pastor taco too. Which is just grilled steak (or chicken) with pineapple salsa, not what you usually get as an Al Pastor at most Taquerias. If you happen to get some freshly-grilled meat, it's terriffic, if not, it's still OK, the pineapple salsa is good. Sadly, it was just OK this time, the meat was a bit dry and tough... The Tacos are about $3 each, which is a bit high compared to some places, but still, not much money, and they're pretty well-stuffed. On the more elaborate end of things, they make a pretty good Mole Poblano It's a good-sized bone-in chicken breast, with a very nice dark mole, maybe not my number one in the area, but not bad at all. It's a big portion with rice and beans for $12. Senora's exists in an odd middle-ground: not as funky and authentic and inexpensive as the real down-home places, but not as fancified as Coyote Crossing a few blocks away, and not as Americanized as the chains. It's not so great as to inspire a long detour, but if I lived nearby I'd be there all the time. When I'm in the area, even with several good options in West Chester I find myself drawn there often. Especially for those duelling tacos...

I actually scoped-out Aman's the other day just to be sure I knew how to find it... after these several good reports, I'm definitely going soon! Thanks everyone for the heads-up!

That hasn't been my experience with the eG crowd! But of course you're right about the population in general. I think Philly's a really great city for cheap eats. My faves under $25: Any of the sandwich places we've been raving about: Sarcone's, DiNic's, Tony Luke's, Famous Deli, etc... I'm happy to call that dinner. Any of my fave places in Chinatown: Sang Kee, Szechuan Tasty House, Rangoon, Penang, etc. perhaps most dramatically, a bowl of noodles at Nan Zhou for, like, $5. Plaza Garibaldi or Taqueria Veracruzana. Ethiopian, especially at Dahlak. (I was saddened to recently discover that Amare passed away back in October... he was a nice guy.) Standard Tap. Ralph's. Despite all the naysaying, I have never been disappointed in a simple order of gnocchi, or ravioli, with a meatball (OK, except that one time when they just wouldn't give me a meatball, despite asking about it 5 times...) Brunch at the Morning Glory. that's a start...

I'm pleasantly surprised by these comments about Ludwig's Garden, I'd been meaning to try the food there, but in doing a few web searches, came across multiple horror stories about everything but the beer. But I understand that these reports can be unreliable, I'm glad to hear that some folks we trust like it.

Really... I think my crackers are being dissed! And I see some one-upmanship about the level of stinkiness of my L'Edel de Cleron!! (It was smelly enough that my mom was complaining about it being in her refrigerator, wrapped...) And yes, the stilton was one of the mango-ginger ones, I liked it. I'll have to disagree with the crack about the crackers: one of the three types in that bowl was a water cracker, but one with a really amazing peppery herby thing going on that I stumbled across. It was really simpatico with the cheese, and I'll make no apologies for it! Some crusty bread is nice, sure, but nothing wrong with a few water crackers, to my palate.

I'm not a local, but travel to the city frequently for business, and always look forward to breakfast at Home Plate: 2274 Lombard St. (at Pierce). (415) 922-4663. It's kind-of a combination of all of your categories, it's fairly down and dirty, but with creative food, good ingredients, big portions, and it's not crazy expensive. Tom Sietsema's review in The Chronicle is over a decade old, but it still seems accurate. They have interesting, creative stuff, but I have a hard time straying from the basic pancakes with fresh fruit. Luckily, we usually go every morning that we're in town, so I can work my way around the menu... It's crowded on weekends, but not bad during the week, or off-times.

I think slkinsey hit it on the head. We're talking about two different things: whether it's possible to make something viable for a low cost, and whether that thing would be good enough. And I'm afraid we won't ever answer that, "good enough" is such a subjective, judgment call. The analogy has already been offered, that restaurant stoves cost well more than typical consumer units. That doesn't mean you can't sautée on them both, but it doesn't make them equivalent either. I run into this in the audio world, where people think I'm an idiot for spending thousands of dollars on a microphone, when you can get a perfectly decent one at the Radio Shack for $25. Sure, they both get sound down the wire, and maybe some folks can't tell the difference, but I can... And I NEED that control. maybe not all the time, but sometimes. I suspect that both things are true, that it's possible to build a pretty decent sous vide set-up for not too much money that would probably be "good enough" for most circumstances. And at the same time, that device would likely not satisfy Vadouvan, and for good reason.

I once got a Mojito made with parsley instead of mint. The bartender and I realized it about the same time, and we had a good laugh about it. It wasn't disgusting, but not good enough to make into a signature cocktail...

The escarole soup at Marra's is rocking good... as are the pizzas.

BTW, twodogs, that fish looks great!! I'm not trying to question anyone's credentials, but I really have to wonder if the folks that are criticizing sous-vide have tasted the results of a really refined application of the technique? I haven't been seeking it out, but have been lucky enough to encounter it at a few very fine places, including Per Se, WD-50 and Studio Kitchen, none of which is using it as a marketing gimmick, they won't get any more or fewer customers by saying they're cooking things sous vide. They're using it to achieve an effect unattainable otherwise. As Vadouvan noted upthread, it's just a technique, it doesn't inherently create good or bad results. Wawas and cafeterias and airlines and other industrial food service organizations might use it for the sake of efficiency and ease, but that doesn't really put it in the same category as a microwave, I haven't found any foods that are actually improved by being put in a microwave... But when used in very specific ways, sous vide can result in amazingly tender textures and concentrated flavors, that bear no resemblance to mere boil-in-bag reheating. I'm not sure this communicates the point as well as it should, but here's a picture of a lamb loin I had at StudioKitchen: It was just amazing how it was exactly the same degree of medium rare from the edge to the center, except for a slight ring around the outside where it was seared, for an added dimension of flavor. It was tender, juicy, with an especially intense flavor. You just can't get that same effect on a grill or in an oven. Is it worth the trouble? I thought so, but then I didn't have to cook it, I just ate it. Sandy, yes you could cook things with a basic foodsaver and a crockpot, but you're unlikely to get quite the same effect: it's the precise control of temps and timing, as well as avoiding air-expansion or leaks during the long cook times, that seem to create the desired results. If you happen to get a good vacuum seal on your product, and happen to have a crockpot that can regulate to a very narrow window of temps, it might work. But the more elaborate water baths and circulators serve a purpose. In the end, if you don't like the results, or don't think it's worth the trouble, that's fine, but personally, I've been amazed at the transformations of ingredients. In the right hands, it's not simply a tool for efficiency or ease, it can really amplify an ingredient's flavors.

I think Pietro's is still around, both on Walnut and on South Street... it's the Lombardi's that's gone. I never loved the Pietros, but the Lombardi's... man I miss that place! As for the taconelli's pizza thing, you not only call ahead to reserve dough, don't they ask you call at least a day ahead??

Edited to acknowledge that Bob beat me to it... but yes, Cuvee Notredame has been closed since the fall of 2002. I'll agree that it used to be good, but no waterzooie to be had these days. I'll let someone who has been to Monk's more recently that I have give an update, but it's just been too crowded, crazy and smoky for me the last few times I even tried to eat there, so I've given up. Le Bec Fin and Lacroix are certainly amongst our best restaurants, but I wonder if classic and more modern French, respectively, are what someone from Montreal would be eager to have... As has already been mentioned, some of our most distinctive local foods are pretty simple sandwiches and the like. So for a real Philly thing: a Sarcone's Hoagie; A Roast Pork Sandwich with greens and aged provelone from John's, Tony Luke's or DiNic's; a cheesesteak from John's. Most of these spots are a little out of the way if you don't have a car. But you can accomplish a lot by going to the Reading Terminal Market (not Sundays). Get breakfast at an Amish counter spot. Work up an appetite and get a Roast Pork from DiNic's, or a hoagie from Carmen's or Salumeria. Get a pretzel from Fishers. Then go lay down for a little while. The other especially noteworthy edge of our cuisine is the BYOB phenomenon, generally small chef-owned operations that make relatively simple, but creative, not-too-expensive food. Stop by one of our recently much-improved state-run liquor stores and grab a bottle of something versatile, and go get some unfussy, but good food. Matyson, Marigold, Melograno and Mandoline have been recent faves on this board. (I don't think there's a rule that that new BYOBs have to start with M, but it can't hurt.) Let us know if there's something in particular you're lacking in Montreal that you'd like to get. Need Italian? If price is no object, it has been suggested that Vetri might be the best Italian restaurant in the US. Want something less upscale? There's almost too much to list... Nuevo Latino? Passion and Alma de Cuba are very good. Feel like some spectacle in the setting? Steven Starr is famous for creating flashy places that often get dissed for being more about the scene, but I've found Morimoto (Japanese), Pod (Asian Fusion) and Tangerine (Moroccan/Mediterranean) to have excellent food. Don't leave town without getting gelato from Capogiro. I don't care how cold it is outside, just go. As you get closer, tell us what you're leaning toward and we can refine our suggestions and give you better directions, and perhaps suggest ideal times to go. Hope we can help!

Hey chefreit, what's up? I can see why it would seem like sous vide is merely a fad, but I suspect it's here to stay, simply because it is so versatile. From a purely pragmatic side, with a well-regulated water bath, it should allow an amazing level of consistency and repeatablility, no small concern in a commercial kitchen. But from the artistic side, it seems to me that it's just one of many techniques being employed in the larger culinary scene right now to explore the effects of slow-and-low cooking, as a contrast to all the searing and high-heat roasting. I've been fortunate to taste some pretty amazing sous vide cooking at StudioKitchen, which displayed super-concentrated flavors, and really unusual textures. And up at WD-50, I recently had a piece of Turbot that had an absolutely fascinating mouthfeel, not from sous vide but from extremely low-heat, gentle cooking in a pan. Traditional slow barbeque smoking seems to be pretty ubiquitous around here lately too, so I think low temps are just part of the current culinary zeitgeist. In the end it comes down to the talent of the chef, but from the tasting side, I can testify that a waterbath can be a tool for some major artistry, not just a hip thing that everybody's doing. And vadouvan, I'm definitely asking for my eggs "a la plancha" next time I'm at the diner! Oooh, and a "carne con queso a la plancha" down at Pats... Probably gonna get my ass kicked, but hey...

I laughed the other day when I was getting a cup of coffee in my local Wawa (a convenience store, for you non-Pennsylvania folks) and I saw one of the workers dropping vacupacked food into a water bath. I thought, wow! Wawa's doing sous-vide!!! Of course they're not, they're just reheating their frozen stews and hot sandwich fillings, but you know, it might not be that crazy of a concept...

A few thoughts about dinner: First, big thanks to everyone for coming, it was great to see some new folks, and it's always a pleasure to dine with the SK veterans! Extra thanks to Kelly and to Bill M for being spontaneous, I trust you both thought it was a good decision! And a tip of the glass to David and John who were extra generous with the wines and pairing expertise, many thanks! Sunchoke and foie gras veloute, Pistachio praline Wine: Vouvray Demi-Sec, Foreau 2003 I've had many soups at SK that were structured like this: rich, silky, creamy, but usually without a drop of cream. That textural similarity doesn't reduce in the least how enjoyable they are each time. This one was no disappointment, full and round, with a nutty aura. I culd have eaten a bowl of this, but I'm glad I didn't given how much food was to come. The Vouvray provided a nice bright contrast to these darker flavors. Braised Oxtail rigatoni, Parmesan, Roasted chicken jus Wine: Carneros Pinot Noir “Reserve,” Saintsbury 2000 This almost seemed out-of-place at SK, as David said, it was pure, satisfying comfort food, just with an unusually refined preparation. There were some nice concentrated tomato flavors in the filling that gave a good acid bite to the oxtail. These flavors knocked our wine progression out of whack a little, but what, you thought we were going to turn it down? This crowd doesn't get too uptight about that kind of thing, we just popped a Pinot, which went very nicely. Roasted Foie Gras, Yuzu Kosho, Pineapple and Green Tomato Chutney, Liquid Pistachio-Lemon Praline Wine: Jurançon, Domaine Larredya 2003 Thin slices of Pineapple wrapped-up a sweet-yet-tangy chutney, chunky with green tomatoes, studded with golden raisins. Those clean, fruity flavors balanced the richness of the foie, which had been dusted with a subtle sprinkle of Yuzu Kosho. I thought the wine was absolutely perfect with this (OK it could have been colder, but no biggie...) Tranche of Sea Scallop, Black Trumpet Mushrooms, Horseradish Emulsion, Truffle Syrup Wines: Collio Bianco, Borgo del Tiglio 2002 and Chassagne-Montrachet Premier Cru “Morgeot,” Louis Latour 2002 This was really quite vividly-flavored, with a nice salty marine intensity to the concentrated scallop terrine. I loved dragging chunks of this through the truffle, or the horseradish. Both wines were very good, but it's hard to beat a nice White Burgundy with scallops and truffles... Bluefoot Chicken Ravioli, Choucroute of Celery, Crispy Sweetbreads, Toasted Jasmine Rice Jus Wines: Sonoma Coast “Kanzler Vineyard” Pinot Noir, Kosta Browne 2002 (corked) and Finger Lakes Riesling (Dry), Hermann J. Wiemer 2004 I'll second David's vote for this as my favorite course of the night. The ravioli would have been just great on its own, but the just barely crispy sweetbreads perched on top somehow managed to meld together with the chicken and pasta, making it a super-rich, coherent whole. A little smear of lemon and sancho pepper on top would occasionally poke through with a sharp, wasabi-ish bite, which I found quite enjoyable. The two wines took these flavors in completely different directions, both of which were places I'd go again. The more refined palates noticed that the Pinot was corked, but it was pretty subtle, and I don't think I'd even have noticed. I'm partial to this Riesling, and despite some razzing from one of our crew, I stand by this wine as a good companion to these flavors. Kurobuta Pork Duo, Shoulder Braised in Lindemans Peche, Crisp Belly, Guinness-Malt Butter, Fennel Infused Butter Bean Puree Wines: Crozes-Hermitage “Clos des Grives,” Domaine Combier 2000 and Barossavale Shiraz, Gibson 2002 Again, I'll agree with David about this being a very close second in the favorite dish race, and for sheer hedonistic indulgence, it would be way out ahead. The pork shoulder was wonderfully tender and flavorful from the beer braise, but the belly was just outrageous. It was crispy, yet tender, pleasantly rich, but not overly so as the long, slow cooking had melted away a large part of the fat. The Guinness-malt butter was hard to describe...but delicious. Even Shola would admit that this presentation wasn't going to win any design awards, this plate was all about the flavors, so I don't think anyone was too disturbed by the weird eddies and swirls at the boundary of the very tasty bean purée and the sauce. I'll take a great-tasting dish over a pretty one any day! Both wines were quite good, but both seemed a touch too big and edgy to me for this particular pork. La Tur and Buttermilk Soup, “Olives,” Fennel Pollen, Arugula, Armando Manni Olive Oil “Per Me” Wine: Moscato d’Asti, G.D. Vajra 2004 This was working on so many levels: each component was quite interesting, but the interactions were where the real fireworks got going. A little cheesey soup and a long-marinated fruit, or that fruity flavor splashed with the assertively peppery olive oil, all three with at strong bite of arugula...always changing, always exciting on the palate. And jeeze, that's some good oil. I thought the moscato was incredible, and just perfect with this particular cheese flavor. Preserved Yellow Roma Tomatoes Reconstituted with Elderflower Syrup, Cauliflower Ice Cream Wine: Tokaji Aszu “5 Puttonyos,” Oremus 1999 OK, this was freaking weird. A nice acidic cool tomato salad, topped with a tangy cold cream, touched with a hint of cauliflower, in a flowery syrup... I can't say I've had anything quite like that before! After a few tastes, I really loved it, but my palate was a bit perplexed for a few moments. Oh, and who knew? Next time you are served Yellow Tomatoes with cauliflower ice cream, insist on this Tokaji, it's an almost perfect match. Chocolate-Chestnut Sorbet, Smoked Cocoa Nibs, Aleppo Pepper and Muscovado Sugar, Oreo Puree, Mandarin Orange Wines: Jerez Pedro Ximenez “La Cosecha” Sacristia, Bodegas San Telmo NV and Jerez Pedro Ximenez “1927 Solera,” Alvear NV and Vieux Pineau des Charentes, Pascal Fillioux NV This was an intense, complex, yet primally satisfying ending for this epic meal. On one level it was just a big honking chocolate bomb (no complaints there!) but with enough unexpected flavors from the crunchies under the sorbet, the stripe of orange flavor, the faint whiff of smoke, to avoid being overbearing. An embarrassment of Sherry riches at the end, jeeze, they all tasted great to me! Thanks again to everyone for the thoughtful and generous wine selections, the good conversation, a fun time all around. And of course to Shola for amazing us yet again...

Most of the preparations stayed fairly close to the advance menu, but there were a few extras tossed in. We got lucky that Shola was feeling experimental, one can't generally expect 9 courses!

StudioKitchen, January 10, 2006 Sunchoke and Foie Gras Veloute, Pistachio Praline Braised Oxtail Rigatoni, Parmesan, Roasted Chicken Jus Roasted Foie Gras Yuzu Kosho Pineapple Tomatillo Ravioli Liquid Pistachio-Lemon Praline Tranche of Sea Scallop Chanterelle and Black Trumpet Mushrooms Horseradish Emulsion Truffle Syrup Bluefoot Chicken Ravioli Pickled Celery Hearts Crispy Sweetbreads, Poha Crust Toasted Jasmine Rice Jus Kurobuta Pork Duo Shoulder Braised In Lindemans Peche Crisp Belly, Guinness-Malt Butter Fennel Infused Butter Bean Purée La Tur and Buttermilk Soup "Olives", Fennel Pollen, Arugula Armando Manni Olive Oil "Per Me" Preserved Yellow Roma Tomatoes, Elderflower Syrup, Cauliflower Ice Cream Chocolate-Chestnut Sorbet Smoked Cocoa , Aleppo Pepper and Muscovado Sugar Oreo Puree, Sweet Cauliflower Glacage Mandarin Orange (edited to add menu descriptions)

I blame Katie and Matt (no, not the Today Show hosts, I mean the maniacs who kept me engaged in amusing eG gossip until 2 freaking thirty!!) Nonetheless... standby...

This is absolutely true, and the urge to get a "plate" correlates very directly with alcohol consumption. Sadly I don't think Corbin John's is open very late... my apologies, I forgot to verify this very important aspect of the phenomenon.

I stopped at the Yocco's on rt.100 today, got a Yocco Dog: It was good. Not earth-shattering, but had a nice grilled snap, and the chili sauce was a nice condiment. I wouldn't make a special trip for this dog, but I'd stop if I was nearby. Maybe I hit them at just the right moment, but the pierogis RULED!! They were nice and crispy, but still tender, not even a little oily, the moist potato filling tasted a little cheesey. These I'd make a special trip for.

I couldn't resist the call of the garbage plate, so I made a field trip to Easton to check out Corbin John's. It's a little tough to spot at first, tucked into a corner of a plaza, but if you take rt 22 to 25th street then go south on 25th street just a bit, it's over behind the Dairy Queen, near the Home Depot. Before I even got in the place I could tell it was run by a native Rochesterian, there were signs in the windows advertising "fish fry" on friday nights, an odd obsession amongst upstate New Yorkers... And sure enough, they make a credible version of the Garbage Plate (they call it the "PA Trash Plate," I don't know if Nick Tahou actually trademarked "Garbage Plate" but most other places in Rochester do use a variation on the term, rather than the original name.) This is a half-plate, which has all the accompaniments, in this case home fries and macaroni salad, but just one hot dog rather than two. (I would have gotten the full one but I happened to pass a Yocco's on the way, and couldn't resist a Yocco Dog and some Pierogis...) It's really quite authetic, most importantly the crucial ground beef "hot sauce" on top, which has a touch of cinnamon, making it taste kind of like Cincinnati Chili. They didn't serve bread along with it, but I always thought including it was a weird thing about the Rochester versions. I got it with a white hot, just like in RaChaCha, but you could get red hots, cheeseburgers, Italian sausage, chicken... I didn't see too many folks getting Trash Plates, most were ordering plain hot dogs, burgers or cheesesteaks. They have regular french fries, and also fresh-cut fries for a few cents more. I had a pile of home fries to contend with, so I didn't sample the fresh-cut ones. There's nothing inherently great about a Garbage/Trash Plate, it's fairly standard diner food, just piled-together in an odd way. The hot sauce gives it a unique spin, but you can get that sauce on your dog or burger without getting a plate. But I'm happy to know that I can get a grilled white hot without driving 6 hours, and I might swing by for a trash plate now or then, just for old times sake... For what it is, Corbin John's is doing a great job. Thanks for the tip all-u-care-2!

I have NOT eaten at any of the other contenders, so I really can't make a comparison, but my meal about 6 month ago at Susur was excellent, one of the dining highlights of my year. And I ate at a few pretty good restaurants (not in Totonto) this year... I'll defer to the folks that have eaten at all of these places recently, but for what it's worth, I don't think you'd be disappointed at Susur.