ngatti

yep, what he said Nick

Actually we're pretty glad to have you around, shawtycat. haven't seen this much action since some punter tried to diss Wondee's. Where is that a..er...guy? Nick

Yes we do have a minimum. end of the month can be 'Hell Week' especially at each end and the begining of the season. This means that members accumulate three months of minimum that must be spent by the end of april and by mid january. They are indeed assessed for the unpent portion. I do find that this helps to mitigate food cost during these usually slow times. Joke: What's the definition of a Country Club dinner reservation? ANS: From your cell phone as you pull up to the valet parking. Nick

Thank you malawry. May I assume the CMAA. I have been to the Olympic, both the city and the country club. Posh. the St. Francis Yacht Club? Even posher (is that a word?). Back to the food: ss, the lunch menus in clubs suffer the most. They must attempt to be all things to all people. Even my own. The best that one can do is to cobble together a diner/deli/salad bar/breakfast type of menu. It is here that sourcing becomes important. For a large pedestrian menu can be mitigated by using exceptional ingredients. Use the best deli meats that you can buy. Take your cooks to Katz's and 2nd Ave. Deli, so they can eat and learn how to 'ish kibibble' a sandwich properly. Find the best smoked fish that you can (we use Moveable Feast). We have to serve eggs. Well let's pretend that we're making them at the Regency. Find great chopped meat or grind your own fresh daily. Use a dry aged steak, even for the steak sandwiches. You get the picture. Look at every detail within the constraints you must operate within and constantly ask yourself if this is the best that you can do. An example: The ubiquitous Turkey club. Find great white bread (not Fink). Use fresh Iceberg lettuce (ANDY BOY). Use fresh Turkey that has been carefully cooked to retain moisture (not louis rich). Use a good bacon slab or a nueskes or apple smoked. There is absolutely NO excuse for bland, flavorless hothouse tomatoes in a High End private club, even in the dead of winter. They're out there...find 'em!! Use Fresh potato Frite or fresh fries. Find good kosher pickles and learn how to make cole slaw that rivals the best of the 'closed on shabbat' delis. It's still prosaic, but dammit it's gonna taste like God intended a turkey club to taste like! Take a Trotteresque approach to this menu that you're forced to contend with. Just because it's behind the curve dull, doesn't mean it has to be bad to eat. Nick

it's difficult to age beef without a certain level of intramuscular fat. Hence the grass fed doesn't age well. The tendency is for it to rot rather than the controlled dessication that ageing brings. I don't know why this is. Nick

Andiamo's in Haworth. Nick

You mean Houston's Nah, don't go there. Nick

John--I didn't mean to diss shawtycats choice. Well ok, yah sure. But nothing personal. In fact I applaud her for giving me the chance to vent. Tonque was, if not planted firmly, then close by my cheek. She merely gave me an opportunity to get cute and bratty. My criticism wasn't directed at her. Nah if I wanted to get mean, i'd start something about small children in restaurants. (Scene from Dr. Strangelove: Left hand wrestling right to keep it away from keyboard ) I stand by my post re Cheescake factory, though BTW, I was in Wondees this evening. Tons of kids. Good thing the food is good Nick

How did I miss this before. Obvoiusly you get get clubs do you? People join clubs because others can't. Oh sometimes they join for great Golf, Golf course designers, Pros. tennis programs. Once in a very rare while someone will join for the quality of the dining room. Haveing said that, Bux. I agree that what you said is bound up with the above to a greater or lesser extent, but it is there. Nick

Not such a crazy idea. I bet it would work in NYC. Though i would do it for dinner. Not far off from what prudhomme used to do with the K-Paul staff during vacation time (travel them around to different select cities). Nick

SP, I'm not unfamiar with the milieu. Remember I started in the disco Biz (NYNY on 52nd Street). Paradise was there but my after hours industry joint was Crisco Disco on 17th and 10th (I think). Also no liquor liscense, non liscence of any kind for that matter as this was a quite illegal after hours club. A Much more gay scene (wasn't the entire disco scene such?) as most front of the house club emplyees and management were at that time. Nick

Quite right Wilfred, very fair. I might add that a plantation mentality (chef as cook, waitstaff as butler/maid) tends to permeate these places. Except in rare instances it is quite evident that staff is hired help serving at the pleasure of the membership. Not necessarily a bad thing. The classism can be quite ananchronistic (by USA standards) but modern labor laws apply. Couple that with what I’ve just said and one can slip into quite an interesting and entertaining role. Limited clientle? No more than 400 in my case. But despite the perceptions of privilege, this is still quite an egalitarian atmosphere. Of course the egalitarian paradigm must be shifted up to the context of 7, 8, and 9 figure incomes. Nick

Paradise garage? Nick

You raise a salient point, Kim, which must be kept at the fore during any discussion on this subject. Clubs (including food) are defined by the collective membership. Nick

Firstly, let me applaud your taste in music. You are obviously a man of breeding with discriminating tastes. I've not been. But give it a try. Sounded like horrible service kinks that magnified the shortcomings of some of the food. Read closely, there were many dishes that Corcoran liked. A review like this will usually cause management to address the service problems immediately. So things will probably go well for you. This place has kind of a captive audience, so i doubt the review will hurt business much. Still it's quite a blow to the ego. Nick

Typical Club Food. Comments welcome. August 2 & 3, 2002 APPETIZERS Shrimp Cocktail 14. Wellfleet Clams on the ½ Shell; Mignonette and Cocktail Sauce 12. Peeky Toe Crab Roll; Small Greens and Saffron Aioli 13. Seared Foie Gras; White Cherry Conserve 15. Jersey Tomato, Mozzarella, Montrachet and Herbs with Tuscan Olive Oil 10. Steamed Mussels in Spicy Tomato Broth with Spanish Chorizo 10. Steak Carpaccio A La Harry’s Bar 11. Ruby Red Shrimp in Red Chili Vinaigrette; Crisp Noodles and Grilled Scallion 12. SALADS Tri-Color Arugula, Radicchio & Endive Fresh Mozzarella, Roasted Tomatoes & Balsamic Vinaigrette 11. California Field Greens; Mixed Baby Lettuces with Sliced Tomato & Lemon Vinaigrette 8. Mixed Greens; Green Leaf Lettuce, Watercress, Radicchio & Tomato Wedges4. Caesar Salad; Romaine Lettuce, Parmesan Crisp & Shaved Parmesan4. Alpine Chopped Salad; Chopped Green Leaf Lettuce, Watercress, Radicchio, Chopped Cucumber & Tomato4. (Iceberg may be substituted for all Lettuces) (Other chopped trimmings available; carrots, onions, radish) All salads may be chopped upon request TONIGHT’S SELECTIONS Pan Roasted Cod – 23. Set in a Rich Fennel Broth, with pancetta Crisp, Grilled Baby Zucchini and Basil Mashed Potatoes Recommended Wine: Marina Danieli2000 Pinot Bianco Grilled Florida Pompano – 24. Tomato Mango Salsa, Mashed Yucca and Plantain Crisps Recommended Wine: Domaine Delaye2000 Macon-Prisse Broiled Maine Sea Scallops – 23. Simply Presented with Butter Sauce, Potato Frites and; Charred Asparagus Recommended Wine: Grand Cuvee Fournier1999 Sancerre Breaded Veal Chop Milanese – 32. Arugula, Tomato and Red Onion Salad Recommended Wine: Treehouse,1999 Cabernet Merlot French Cut Breast of Chicken – 19. Wrapped in Serrano Ham with Merguez Sausage and Cous Cous Recommended: Coppola2000 Syrah Seared Duck Magret – 22. Dried Cherry Sauce and Soft Parmesan Polenta Recommended: Firesteed2000 Pinot Noir A Plate of Seasonal Market Vegetables – 15. With Heirloom Tomatoes, Small Roasted Vegetables, Eggplant Caviar and Montrachet; Dressed with Tuscan Olive Oil and Fig Vinegar Syrup Signature Specialties Alaskan Salmon – 20. Lemon Roasted Potatoes and L’Ancienne Mustard Beurre Blanc Recommended Wine: Domaine Delaye 2000 Macon-Prisse Giannone Chicken Roasted From the Rotisserie – 17. Garlic Mashed Potatoes, Seasonal Vegetables & Cranberry Chutney Recommended Wine: Coppola2000 Syrah Grilled Veal Rib Chop – 32. Roasted Sweet Onion, Dried Tomato & Grilled Asparagus Recommended Wine: Whispering Peak 1998 Cabernet Sauvignon USDA Prime New YorkShell Steak – 32. Potato Frites, Thick Sliced Tomato & Onion Recommended Wine: Gallo1998 Merlot Triple Cut Lamb Chops – 32. Garlic Mashed Potatoes & Seasonal Vegetables Recommended Wine: Treehouse1999 Cabernet Merlot Due to the current drought emergency, water will only be served on request.

Of course it's possible. But it takes a terrifically talented, dynamic, and experienced Chef to pull it off. One with the palate of a Bocuse and the organizational skills of Division logistics officer. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that it helps if the Chef is extraordinarily good looking too! It's an interesting question, and I'd like to give it more thought, perhaps after a good nights sleep, before responding in earnest. Nick

[Note: This was the beginning of a thread about Calcada - RPerlow] David Corcoran found much to dislike and not a few annoyances in this place. The link to the review does not seem to be posted yet. It must have been horrible to go to work Sunday morning. This is the type of review that can tear a place apart. There'll be finger pointing and animosity. I feel terrible for Rob Welch. This review comes after much success and heady publicity. He's a talented hard-working Chef, and is a 'head screwed on straight' nice guy. I'm sorry for the review and wish him much future success. This too shall pass Nick

sure. Go ahead and start it. But you may find that I'll agree with you. Much dismal dreck out there! Nick

Based on the descriptions here..perhaps none to 1/2 star. Sometimes a little shock is in order. That which doen't kill us makes us stronger. Nick

Remember it has always been a tourist destination. I don't know what the financial arrngements are re Von Bidde/Niccolini/Bronfman. But they seem to do alright re the reviewers. I think the latest in the times was 3 stars. Though that was some time ago. I think the critics are known to the staff. I also think that many are loathe for whatever reason to kick the old lady about, perhaps hoping upon hope that she'll be rescued and restored to former glory. Jeez I can't believe I'm doing this, I'm in the middle of a 200 ppl golf outing. Gotta run guys. it's been fun Nick

Unfortunately, Steve, It has been that way for a while. Even in my time, friday and saturday were production nites (600+) couverts. Impossible to manage. You're quite right if you were Bocuse, Kissinger, or Ford you were jumped on. Lunch in the Grill room is indeed akin to a private club. With tables doled out to various movers and shakers. I only take exception to your broad brush re suburban clubs. Yeah most do...well..they are somewhat less than. Even mine on occasion. But could ya, would ya, lose a couple of bristles when you you get to the Alpine CC. We try within the natural constraints imposed on us. Even Michelle Fitoussi now works in a private suburban club. Thanks muchly Nick

Perfect segue, Wilfred There was once a young poor commis whose job was to prepare the fresh killed ducks for The Four Seasons, Farmhouse Duck. Occasionally business outstripped supply so he was forced to use frozen LI ducks. The commis' station in the butcher shop was next to Chef Josef (Seppi) Renggli's. He had the ducks slacked in a sink full of cold water. During this time a familiar booming voice loudly asks "What's for lunch, Chef?". Oh jeez!, the commis says to himself, James Beard himself! In the Flesh! Cool!! Thwack!! a cutting board is smacked down over the sink almost smashing the commis' fingers. Chef and Legend consult over the lunch to be prepared and the commis continues working stealing a glance at the legend from time to time. Beard eventually leaves to eat his lunch and the commis timidly asks the chef why he smashed the cutting board onto the sink? Seppi Replies: "Listen, Gatti, Ven Mr. Beard comes into the kitchen, ve never vant him to see the frozen ducks!" Nick

Wilfred, The Seasons went through a remarkable makeover in the mid 70s. RA sold it to a couple of innovative managers (Paul Kovi/Tom Margattai). Keep in mind that James Beard was still involved with the restaurant at this time. But I think I agree with you. I came on board for a one year apprenticship in 1981. The two dining room managers are now the owners. The Sous Chef (for all intents and purposes at the time) is now the Executive Chef and I wouldn't be surprised if the Chefs de Partie are still there, toiling away at their respective stations. The captains and senior waitstaff (refugees from the QEI and Queen Mary) are probably gone as is Oreste Carnivale (Maitre'd). But I'm sure the old girl soldiers on. I will say that it was such a comfortable place to work and in the time I was there was a such innovative place, that staff found it difficult too leave. If they did leave they were looked at as freaks. One talented young woman went to work at Hubert's and we all tried to talk her out of leaving. The feeling we had was that at the time we thought we working in the finest restaurant in the world. I might say that The Seasons is ready for another revolutionary makeover. It is a superb space. Nick

I've always been impressed by the amount of streusel thay manage to pile on a coffee cake. Nick