Beachfan

I had an excellent dinner at Aqua at the St.Regis, although at first they said they allowed corkage, and then they acted surprised when I brought it, and then wanted to charge me $45. I protested, and it was lowered to $25. Normally I wouldn't protest any corkage fee (I've paid the $75 at JG NY) but it was the attitude like they were doing me a favor after I had already inquired that put me off. However, the meal was excellent. Unfortunately I don't remember what it was (other than the appetizer included fois gras). I had trepidation because the time I ate at Aqua at the Bellagio was very disappointing for the price. My wife had a special vegetarian meal that she liked very much. Something with exotic mushrooms. The place I thought was phenomenal, but have only been there once, was Encore, in the LA St. Regis. Similar to Spago Beverly Hill, but a little lighter. Anyone else been there?

Wine from whatever wine area I visit Liquers if encounter some interesting artisinal liquers (like Chestnut liquer from the Dordogne) Maille mustard - types that aren't available in the US A cheese or two Chocolates Tins of fois gras Art noveau glass now and then Arche shoes (usually 5 pairs or so) Hediard jam

Yes, it was very nostalgic; sort of 60s flashback with much better food.

Yes Tommy, please let us in on the Secret.

Great set of posts, Steve. I'll have to check out the Rasteau's; I really like the Beaurenard's inexpensive bottle; I'm interested to see what going a couple of steps up brings to the table. Re: your Southern Rhone, year rankings, pretty spot on except I like 94 better than 97. I have some 94 Beaucastel in halfs that are lovely. Also Janasse 94. To be complete, I'd put 93 at the bottom; you see that yearwine lists now and again. What might be interesting for the readers is if you or Ron put together a couple of Old World/New World style Rhone pairs of currently available wines (each of the pair being from same appelation and price category). There's no substitute for tasting and this way people can illustrate your explanation via the glass.

And kudo's for Nina for starting the thread!

Steve is right that those vintages are not "ready" in the sense of showing secondary complexity like the older vintages he mentions, but that doesn't mean some of these wines can't be enjoyed now with significant pleasure as a result of their ripe fruit. In particular, I'd recommend 2 98s: Chateau Fortia and Clos Mont Olivet. Check with Chambers St. Wines downtown or Columbus Circle Wines & Liquors for availability, or do a search on www.winesearcher.com. I'll ditto that comment. If ready means, will it improve, most still will. If ready means can I enjoy it now, I think you can enjoy the 98s now, just not as much as you would enjoy them later. I'm not opening the 98 CdPs from my cellar, but I have a few Cotes du Rhone that I'm not sure are ageworthy and are really delicious now. In fact, if I want only a glass or two of wine, what I tend to open is a recent vintage Cote du Rhone. Also, a 1998 CdP on a wine list will probably give more pleasure than 96 or 97 (not as good years). I find that 1994 is drinking well now (I like my wines on the younger side).

Not at all, when the comments are on style and preference. I agree that some people like one style much, much better, and vice versa. Also, many start out liking New World wines, and then move away from them. It just isn't a question of better in an absolute sense. I also agree that many winemakers have moved to a New World style, and Parker is an advocate of that. But he gave a perfect score to Ogiers 1999 Belle Helene, so I don't think it's so black and white.

Surprising; I really like Lupa. I've been there 3 times; always late in the evening. The fish special is what I usually get and it's been excellent. I also like the gnocchi.

Has everyone released there 2000 CdPs yet? I'm going in September and I hope they'll still have them available.

Welcome to the california board mixmaster b! I tend to agree with your assessment. Sorry that you've had inconsistency at Spago BH and Chinois; those are the two that I rely on for excellence in LA. Keep on postin'!

Some links Description of appelations Vins Rhone Chateau Beaucastel Guigal

Actually, it's my favorite size. I'd rather have a half bottle of a great wine than a full bottle of an ok wine. Assuming I'm not sharing that is. i'd rather have a full bottle of great wine. Wouldn't you really prefer two bottles of great wine?

Actually, it's my favorite size. I'd rather have a half bottle of a great wine than a full bottle of an ok wine. Assuming I'm not sharing that is.

I'll comment on the southern Rhone. For beginners, the best way to learn about the Rhone wines is to buy different Cotes du Rhones that are around $10-$20. They are mostly Grenache and the 1998, 99, and 2000 vintages were all stellar. It's rare that you'll get a bad bottle. Cote du Rhones is made from grapes outside the more elite appelations but within the regional appelation. If you want a couple of particular suggestions, I just had Janasse Cote du Rhone Vielle Vigne 2000, just superb,and under $20. It comes from vineyards just barely outside the boundaries of Chateauneuf du Pape. Less expensive is Beaurenard Rasteau 1999 (although I'm sure 2000) is good. Also Santa Duc. Next level up pricewise is Gigondas. This is a specific appelation around the town (also one of the prettiest spots in the Southern Rhone). Producers I enjoy are Brusset, Pesquier, Raspail-Ay, Santa Duc, and especially St. Cosme. Usually $15 to $20 or a little more. Again 98, 99, 2000 should all be good. Next level up in price is Chateauneuf du Pape, again mostly Grenache. There are plenty of great ones - Pegau, Clos du Pape, Les, Cailloux, Clos de Caillou, Jannasse, Beaurenard Cuvee Boisrenard, and of course Beaucastel. (the 2000s are just being released and are a little better than the 1999s). Except for Janasse, I've been getting these for around $35 (they used to be $10 less before the public got wise to them last year or so). Except for some Italian wines, I think these are the best values in the marketplace. Above that is the luxury cuvees of CdP, such as Chateau Mordoree La Reine du Bois. The market price for these is now extremely high, and availability miniscule. No need to chase these unless you are really devoted to wine. There are some interesting white wines (Rousanne, Marrsanne). The best is from Beaucastel, but it's pricey. La Nerthe also makes a nice white (usually a nice red too) Easiest way to get a list of great producers is to go to the Wine Spectators Rating Search and look up Chateauneuf du Papes rated 90 and above. While I don't advocate their scores in general, everybody has loved the Southern Rhone wines in 98,99 and 2000, so you won't go wrong. The only comment I'll make on the Northern Rhone is on Condrieu. If you can land a bottle of Condrieu by Vernay, Cuilleron or Delas, you are in for a real treat. One of the best summer wines, and it's incredible complexity and floral declicate nature makes it worth it's high price tag ($35 to $75). Drink within 2 years of release, it definitely doesn't age. Wine Spectator Rating Search

Good approach. As my wife said when I mentioned the vegetarian bacon thread: "If you are trying to create an artificial pig, that's impossible. But if you don't like pig, it's flavor or it's texture, then vegetarian bacon is nice". By the way, the vegeburgers I've had that managed to work in peas seemed the better for it.

Quantum Leap (in Fresh Meadows, nearby) also had a nice one during those starry eyed flower power years.

You are correct. It isn't edible. Neither was my serving at Tabla. It's a huge monster of the deep (actually gentle). I was making a humorous comment.

At our millenium dinner, the Grange (I forget the year, fairly young) blew away the Bordeaux legends we brought. 1997 Harlan came in second.

Do you consider yourself a novice, intermediate or advanced wine fan? While I disagree with the Wine Spectator's rating approach (inconsistent due to differing reviewers), they are the most influential at the retail level. WS's high ratings will make things fly out the door, more so than Parkers. I think the WS is a very good read for people wanting to start out. They do good overviews of areas now and again. For example, the current issue's discussion of Loire wines is very good if you don't know much about them. If you know a lot about it, then it may seem pauce. It's website is the best free website. Wine Spectator Parker is more influential with the more serious collectors, but Parker is also the most influential with respect to affecting winemaking practices over time. And Parker certainly affects availability at the retail level. Their overviews are much more detailed (see the current issue on Austrian wines). Burghound is great for the truly serious Burgundy afficianado's, but I would consider it the most advanced journal. It's upside is that it presents a different perspective (more traditional) than Parker, and many Burgophiles have more in common with Allen Meadow's tastes than witrh others. Stephen Tanzer's International Wine Cellar get's a lot of respect too. He has a sample free issue at his website Tanzer

I was going to post the recipe from the Moosewood cookbook. But I couldn't bring myself to do it - lentils and rolled oats. We made it once 18 years ago. At least it's a complete protein.

No. But as you can see from the other posts, skate is usually tender on the bone (or cartiledge). Mine felt like hard labor. I think the purveyor passed something off on them. It was just a little larger in diameter, but much, much thicker than what I'm used to. Like triple at the part that would have been closest to the spine.

When I said I thought I was served Ray at Tabla, I meant something other than a skate. Not all rays are skates. I think Tommy and I were served a Manta Ray. I couldn't find the perfect reference but here is one: Nerdy elasmobranch web site which says The batoids (electric rays, sawfishes, guitarfishes, skates and stingrays) are the largest putative monophyletic group of the chondrichthyans. Between 477 and 486 of the 859 to 868 estimated species of chondrichthyans are batoids. The five subgroups of batoids are clearly distinct from one another and each is generally considered to be monophyletic, although no synapomorphies are known for the guitarfishes. Lack of consensus as to the phylogenetic relationships among the five subgroups is due less to the paucity of anatomical information on the taxa than to the great distinctiveness of each of the subgroups. The subgroups share common batoid synapomorphies but share little in the way of obvious derived character states with other subgroups. Lack of synapomorphies among subsets of the five subgroups hinders an outgroup approach to elucidation of the phylogenetic interrelationships.

Any other comments on the quality of food at Dimple? I can earned 1.7 thousand brownie points by bringing my wife there.

The Italians win on the gelato front, and the French win on the sorbet front, even displacing the Lemon Ice King of Corona. Surprisingly enough, Haagen Danz Sorbets are pretty darn good for store bought.