Beachfan

A ray is about 3 times the size of a skate at least. What convinced me that it was a ray was how bloody thick it was. Skates aren't.

tabla in nyc served it on the bone once. i almost cried. what a pain in the butt. i'm sure the chef got some feedback because they never did it again. I love skate. The only time I didn't like it was in Tabla. I went a week before September 11, so I never got to write my letter of complaint. After reflecting on the meal, I think they served "Ray" instead of skate. Maybe it was just bone- on, but there were no areas of the fish that didn't need to be scraped off to get the meat. Literally scraped. I didn't complain to the waiter, and now I'm suffering the consequence. Instead of giving them an opportunity to make it right, I've been reluctant to go back. And it was one of my favorites before. Anyone else who can opine on whether it was a ray or was it just bone on?

Kunin's Viognier is the only California bottle that evokes Condrieu. But at least there's one example. Actually Garretson's viognier also does, but it's not as sublime.

Zagat guides are pretty useful in towns that you haven't been in. Of course the numbers for Phoenix and St. Louis are inflated relative to NYC. Nonetheless, they are a good geiger counter for detecting whether a restaurant is worth your exploration. The simple bias correction that I use is subtract 4-5 points in all cities but NYC, SF, and New Orleans. Within cities it's just trial and error. However, I've found some pretty good restaurants through Zagat that I would have never found otherwise. What are the alternatives for smaller cities: 1)The concierge - usually not as good as Zagat. Usually doesn't eat at the restaurants they recommend. 2) CitySearch - not as many respondants, and since one would assume similar qualifications to Zagat readers, that would mean less validity. Although you can read individual comments which might help. 3) Gayout - I wish they covered more of the US 4) Frommers/Fodors - Usually out of date 5) Local Newspapers - I never seem to trust 'em 6) Personal recommendations - great if that's your goal, but if you have geographic or price or cuisine parameters, not always available. I also prefer Zagat to both the Nielsen ratings and the electoral college. (I wish I could ignore them both).

Actually, I think that's pretty common. The two companies I've worked for that gave me a Corporate card didn't accrue miles. So if a restaurant didn't accept AMEX, I'd probably be happy, since then I could get the miles on my VISA.

I've always loved NYC tap water, and living in LA makes you really appreciate it. I drink San Pellegrino quite a bit (my favorite). Most of my water consumption is Crystal Geyser in the sport bottle (25.3 oz). Very convenient for those who want to get in their two quarts per day. I prefer San Pellegrino to Sole or just about any other. I also like Badoit, I haven't found one close to my liking besides those two.

Did you go upstairs to the Founder's Room where the good wine is poured? I haven't been for 5 years; last time they had a lot of great wine to taste, but the per pour fee was pretty hefty. BTW, I've found that if you ask for a price on the flight, rather than offer one at a time, you can often get a significant price break. Same at Mondavi's ToKalon room. Unfortunately, when I was there last month, the prices were through the roof. Luckily, I'm a small shareholder, for which they will comp everything and anything, excellent treatment. If only the wines were half as good as they were 5 years ago.

I'd be curious. There's a pretty good rule of thumb out west: Avoid all deli's that have NY in their title (e.g. the New York Deli in Boulder, Colorado). I wonder whether there is a collorary for Metro NY restaurants with LA or Malibu in the title.

Did you find the bread pleasurable or below standards?

You didn't say or do anything wrong. I just was trying to balance your strong advice (i.e., "DON'T do it") with another point of view. In looking over the thread, it probably wasn't necessary. Plenty of people have strong opinions on egullet (what an understatement). I certainly don't mean to tone down any of us Californians

Throw in the Demand-Side economics and you have your answer. They charge that much because they can get it. The biggest problem is in second tier cabernets - $75 to $100 wines that would be ok at $34. As production increases quicker than the supply of grapes from mature vines, quality will decrease. This is sort of the opposite of what has happened in Italy. Most of the grapes from mature vines (outside of Piedmonte and Tuscany) went to large cooperatives. Now that there has been major investment, the quantity of excellent wine has shot up dramatically. And while the prices haven risen to cover the higher costs, the comparable Italian Cabernet was $35 in 2001, and may still be under $50. Many are made in a New World style and would appeal to palates that enjoy Californian wines. Also, Ron is right about Rhone wines as well as Italians. Check out the 2000 Chateauneuf du Papes, even with their price increases, still a lot, lot cheaper than California wines, and are probably in a style you would enjoy. PS Those second tier cabs aren't selling too well anymore. Because with each dumb marketing move (like raising prices 20% in a bad year), more people discover the Rhone, Italian wines (and now, Spanish wines).

As a fan of lunch, I find lunch at the 3 stars very nice indeed. I've been to three that have prix fixe that are bargains - Le Grand Vefour, Lucas Carton, Arpege. It seems that L'Ambroise does not, nor did the old Alain Ducasse. Anyone know about the other 3 stars (i.e., do they have a prix fixe lunch that is significantly less than the dinner?). If you've been there, please let us know how much you liked it.

I thought you said you liked the Cult Cabs? Those wines see more new oak than a North Carolina furniture factory. Perhaps predominant is the better word. Big enough fruit can handle a lot of oak. But that's probably why California Chardonnay is often disappointing to me. Pahlmeyer 99 tasted like I was chewing on a tongue depressor. But I find Pahlmeyer Merlot nice. Probably same amount of oak, but not predominant because of the fruit. If one disliked oak flavors as a significant component, then you probably would have found the Merlot objectionable too.

While Amador may be nice, for young impressionable wine folks who may still read this for advice: If you want to go to Napa, go. There are lovely roads without tour busses in Napa, and plenty of wineries where people will talk with you. It just takes a little more planning than in Sonoma. But not a lot.

Yes it's the Cluster Select Late Harvest. Turns out it's from the 1989 vintage. While most are from the east coast, there are some West Coasters. I think the majority preference (if there is one) for European wines has more to do with taste preference and price/quality ratio than availability.

How about California or New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc or a Sancerre?

Their late harvest Gewurtztraminer 1988 is truly world class. I still have a few splits; it will hold it's own with the best Alsatian SGN.

Go up to $25 to $35 and you have Chinois on Main in Santa Monica, which might be my top recommendation. Mostly because it's unique. Wolfgang's other place, Spago Beverly Hills is also excellent. Some of the older threads have details on both higher end and ethnic. Just be aware that LA is very large geographically, and Long Beach is not central. Check on Map Quest to see how far things are. This thread has a couple of points of view and specific recommendations: LA dining scene egullet thread

It's a slightly different dynamic when you are on the mailing lists. Then is it worth it to drink it or sell it. While I disagree that a Guado al Tasso is the equivalent (let alone better) than Harlan, I agree with your overall comments that the best Italian and Rhone wines are just as good (better for some palates) and better buys if you aren't on the mailing list. ( The whole purpose of the mailing list system was to create an artificial market and otherwise increase demand. Sure these wines fetch huge prices on the secondary market because people always want what they can't have. However, I do not think that this is a reason to think that a wine is good. I have not had Harlan because I am not a fan of wine that tastes strongly of oak, fruit jam, and alcohol, especially at that price point. However, I have other cult cabs and feel very confident that Gaudo al Tasso is superior to any of them. Interestingly, Gaudo shares much of the same characteristics as it is markedly new world in style. The problem with the cult cabs is that they are way out of balance. Not enough acidity, not enough tannins, not enough herbal qualities. They are all fruit and wood with out of whack alcohol percentages by volume. The very talented winemakers at these wineries have suceeded in isolating the few characteristics that are most noticeable and marketable, as well as favorites of a certain influential wine critic. They have then manipulated their wines, through reverse osmosis, super hot fermentation, high extraction, extended new oak contact, and use of ultra-ripe fruit to make relatively one-dimensional wines that showcase these limited characterisitics. I think there are better buys out there. Don't confuse personal preferences with superiority. Some people really like wine that is all fruit. I like my wines fruit forward without prominent oak. I don't like herbal flavors. That doesn't mean I don't like good wine. Also, your logic on mailing lists seems flawed. They are done so wineries can sell as much as possible directly to consumers at retail. They get no benefit from the gray market markup. They are interested in maximizing their profit, not Christie's. Some of them will bounce you off their mailing list if they know you are flipping the wine. Finally, I love Italian wines, and most of my wine dollars are going there. While I thought Guado al Tasso was very nice, I wasn't impressed as others.

Those prices are pretty low for fine dining in LA. Someone should be able to recommend some ethnic restaurants though. Chan Dara is a Thai chain in LA, maybe they have one close to Long Beach. The one I went to is in Santa Monica. I would say the food is above average Thai and quite tastey (but skip the clams).

It's a slightly different dynamic when you are on the mailing lists. Then is it worth it to drink it or sell it. While I disagree that a Guado al Tasso is the equivalent (let alone better) than Harlan, I agree with your overall comments that the best Italian and Rhone wines are just as good (better for some palates) and better buys if you aren't on the mailing list. (

BEACHFAN, WHO MAKES FISHER???? Mia Klein is the winemaking consultant (per Stephen Tanzer, May 2001) but Whitney Fisher does the day to day work. Wedding Vineyard is currently being replanted (Abreu is supervising).

If you want to splurge and are willing to spend cult $ (on grey market prices) and want to try something different, see if you can't get a bottle of Imposter McCoy from Sine Qua Non. Definitely cult status, awesome Syrah. More conventional, but not quite in the inner circle of Harlan et. al. would be Fisher Wedding Vineyard 1997 (I haven't tried it but my buddies went nuts over it). The best I had was 1997 Bryant, now that price has fallen, I think you can get it for $500 on gray market. But I'd rather have 5 Giacosa Barolo Riserva Falletto's from 1990 (or 1997 to hold). Finally, I've seen some pretty reasonable prices on 91 Montelena ($120 or so, the cost of the current vintage). Fabulous for drinking now (as would be a 91 Dominus).

I like all that. By the time the cheese course is ready, we usually don't mind a few extra minutes between courses. Except the restriction on number of slices. But we went during white truffle season last year, and ordered a couple of appetizers each split in two for the four of us (a pasta dish and an egg dish). When they shaved the truffles on top, they were like the Everready bunny (kept on going and going). Clearly, each half appetizer got a generous portion of truffle. So, all in all, a very fairly priced meal!

Did they have a cheese course option? If so, how did it look.