MarketStEl

[moans in memory of North Carolina pulled pork] Have I any hope in Philly? ← 'Fraid not. --Sandy, Kansas City expat

Chevy's or Baha Fresh would be less-gross examples? I put Chi-Chi's in the "truly bad not-really-Mexican" category. After all, there are levels of quality to chains. There's the consistant, boring, reputable, and then there's the consistantly truly lousy lowest-common-denominator chains. Maggiano's is the former, Olive Garden the latter. ← Hadn't heard of either of those chains until now, as I've never lived in an area that had them. Nor, for that matter, have I ever eaten in a Chi-Chi's. But they did advertise around here. Judging from your comments, it's probably just as well that I never ate there.

I'd beg to differ on your "no detectable heat" assessment, though I would agree that Sriracha's heat is toward the mild end of the scale. But I like the way it gives you a little kick at first, then gradually recedes into something a little more complex with a hint of sweetness. Most sweet hot sauces begin with a sugar rush. This one doesn't. Guess I'll have to see if VIP (near me) or Wing Phat (on Washington Avenue) have this in stock. In the meantime, I'm going to have to try making my next Virgin Caesar with Sriracha.

A number of very good KC 'cue joints are perfectly happy to sell you fries. They're not traditional barbecue sides, but they are available at some places. I'm beginning to think that maybe it's genetic. Just as there is a clear line of demarcation between mayonnaise and Miracle Whip, or between where a fizzy, sweet soft drink is called "soda" and where it's called "pop", there is a line of demarcation between those parts of the country where people more or less instinctively understand how to do barbecue and those where people have to read books about it to learn it first, and then practice, practice, practice until they get it right--or close to right.

A pizza screen is a round screen which an uncooked pizza is placed on before it goes into the oven. It helps to better brown the bottom crust. These are usually (but not exclusively) used in pizza shops that have a tunnel oven which is a large commercial oven where a large chain conveyor bakes the pizza as it goes from one end to the other. Pizza goes in one end raw and comes out the other end baked. Some like to reheat a slice or two on a screen, that works pretty well. I personally like using a pizza stone. i don't care for pizza baked in a tunnel oven, which is how most of the big chains do it. Too doughy and not crisp enough IMHO. ← Needless to say, I don't have a tunnel oven. Aside from the fact that it was overcooked, I thought the screen worked well in my regular oven.

I'll refer you to a comment I made earlier this evening on the Pennsylvania board: "I'd rather see lots of people enjoying themselves dining out on mediocre food than a few of us enjoying superlative fare and everyone else watching TV at home." (It's in a thread I started about the iminent arrival of Ruby Tuesday's at Liberty Place in Center City.) I had an encounter with the sublime in downtown Wilmington on Friday, at a hot-dog-and-burger place called Mutts at 9th and Orange. (I posted about this on the DC/Delmarva board. Despite the fact that Wilmington is now something of a satellite of Philadelphia, or vice versa, it's still part of Delmarva, so I'll post about food in Wilmington there.) I guess it all depends on what you consider sublime. I kinda doubt I'll be having lunch at the Hotel DuPont any time soon. If you're ever so inclined, let me know and we can probably rustle up a bunch of people to join you at Ralph's on 9th Street, in the Italian Market. This place is what the Olive Garden wants to be when it grows up. We're here for you. But I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to join you for lunch at Chili's, either.

Great American Restaurants restaurants are indeed great. Artie's is my favorite, followed by Sweetwater Tavern. ← Well, if Great American Restaurants is a "chain," then so is the Starr Restaurant Organization, the company that put the theater into fine dining in Philadelphia. (Warning: Like every one of Starr's 14 restaurants, the corporate Web site is Flash-y.) But yes, the restaurants the Virginia company runs do look more like "new American" casual-dining chain places than the ones run by the Philadelphia outfit.

Wicked pissa! Then again, Red Lobster is a sacrilege in any state. Life is too short for frozen seafood. ← Where I grew up, there was no such thing as seafood. Fish, yes. Seafood, no. Except at two places: the Savoy Grill (old traditional restaurant, rather pricey, clubby decor, not really a place to take an 11-year-old for a simple meal out) and -- yup -- Red Lobster. I did manage to leave Kansas City for Boston to attend college, though. There I learned what seafood was supposed to taste like, at the No Name. To turn the tables, however: I imagine that in New England, Famous Dave's would be considered fantastic barbecue. And in that region, it probably would be. (I see they plan to open in Saugus. Wonder if it will be anywhere near the Hilltop Steak House, if that place is still around?)

I'm not going to stake my life on this--after all, Rich Davis hadn't yet sprung KC Masterpiece on an unsuspecting world by the time I left the city--but when I lived there, no respectable 'cue joint in Kansas City served "baby back ribs." Ribs meant pork spareribs. Period.

A very good point, and if you don't mind, I'd like to cite this over on the revived chain restaurant discussion in General Food Topics. Nonetheless, you can find decent quality food at some national chains, and just because a multi-location restaurant is a local operation doesn't mean it's great. For instance, you can actually get pretty good Italian cooking at Maggiano's Little Italy. And I doubt that anyone would cough up what Ruth's Chris Steak House or Morton's of Chicago charge in order to be served mediocre beef. (Putting a Philly spin on this observation: Those two steakhouses are still around. Morton's has been here nearly two decades. Kansas City Prime lasted how long?) And on the other hand, how many times have you seen Lee's Hoagie House mentioned in the recurring discussions about where the best hoagies are to be found? But I do appreciate what I believe is your larger point, one that others have also made: National chains, no matter how good their food or service, are the same wherever you go. Local establishments--even local chains--usually have distinct personalities. A Mexican meal eaten at the Mexican Post, Zocalo, El Vez or Tequila's is more interesting than one eaten at Chi-Chi's simply because behind that meal stands somebody who had an original idea about how that food should be prepared and presented and what sort of environment it should be served in, rather than someone who just bought someone else's idea off the shelf in order to make some money. I still won't begrudge those who seek out the Olive Garden when they think Italian their preference, even though I do know that better exists and would be happy to point them to it. I'd rather see lots of people enjoying themselves while dining out on mediocre food than only a few of us enjoying superlative meals and everybody else watching TV at home. (Edited to add: Yes, I know that Chi-Chi's shut down last fall. I just can't think of another national Mexican chain that is anywhere near comparable to the local Mexican restaurants I mentioned.)

I have heard of The Washington Monthly, and you've picked an excellent model for what you hope to achieve with the new and improved, revised and expanded Daily Gullet. I hope you succeed at your stated goal of promoting new and promising voices in writing about food. (You will probably also model your payment policies after the Monthly's--if you're lucky and get enough contributions. Otherwise, I guess we'll all have to settle for the not insignificant satisfaction of instant publication and robust feedback.) I need to get my 25th college reunion this June out of the way first, but after that, assuming I'm employed full time, I intend to join the ranks of Society Donors. Congratulations on a job very well done.

The City of Brotherly Love is still blessed with a slew of very good independent and family-run Italian restaurants. But the old standbys like Ralph's (the traditional red-gravy house that's celebrating its 105th anniversary this year) and Marra's have been joined by a slew of much classier places serving excellent, creative Italian dishes, including Il Portico, Portofino, Felicia's, Kristian's, Panorama (better known for its huge selection of wines, all available by the glass) and the Saloon (this last a favorite with the expense-account crowd). Varalli's (Upstares and Sotto) also qualifies.

Not to take a shot at you, personally, BG, but I can see a Potbelly's from my office and work above a Quizmo's. Those places are both horrible. And Potbelly's compounds its mass-produced blandness with a faux hominess that makes it all the more execrable. The people responsible for these chains should be rounded up and sent to re-education camp. With the PF Chang's folks. [end rant] ← De gustibus non disputandum est, I guess. If we all really believed that, there would be no eGullet at all. On the whole, though, I agree with the poster who said that we should neither totally exalt nor thoroughly despise chains. As I wrote in the Inquirer, they serve a useful purpose. Besides, this Manichean tendency to class all chains as evil does a disservice to good local chains (for instance, Planet Hoagie, a small [three locations] chain of very good hoagie shops in Philadelphia).

...or don't, as you prefer. As I was walking from City Hall to Hamburger Mary's this evening, I noticed a liquor license application in the window of the former Coach Store at Liberty Place. The licensee? Ruby Tuesday's. This chain is a TGI Friday's clone with a bigger salad bar and less emphasis on the alcohol bar. Something tells me they aren't going in the old Coach space--that's too small for this mall standby. So I guess I'll just have to wait for the Sunday newspaper coupon inserts to find out where in Liberty Place it's going. In the meantime, the front windows were open wide at Mary's this evening. Should any of you care to, stop by Dragonfly, the gay bar upstairs at Mary's, say hi to Dennis the bartender, and tell him I sent you. (Actually, while I'm at it, Hamburger Mary's the concept is a "chain" of sorts. But each individual location has a distinct local personality.)

So are the fries. What Mutts calls a "small" order ($2 standalone; included in the price of their everyday combos) is roughly equivalent to two large orders from a typical chain fast-food place. And I was right: the fries are much, much better consumed there, where they won't get steamed in a bag. They were exactly as I thought they would be. (I went back today to order my first ever Chicago-style dog, with mustard, tomatoes, sweet relish, chopped onion, a dill pickle spear and a pepperoncini pepper. That was delish--a hot dog and a salad all in one!)

For the four or five of you who have been following my search for good places to have lunch in Wilmington, Delaware, I can now report on a small eatery of (apparently) recent origin that is definitely worth a visit--especially if you're a hot dog aficionado. The place is called Mutts, at 901 North Orange Street. It's only open for lunch on weekdays, from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. The menu is straightforward: burgers, foot-long hot dogs, fries and salads. (A second location, just opened in New Castle, has a more extensive menu and is open longer hours.) The hot dog at Mutts is one of the best I've ever eaten--big and juicy, with really beefy flavor. It's served on a sub roll that goes well with the dog and doesn't fall apart under the burden of the various toppings available. So far, the one topping I've had is the chili-cheese dog. Mutts' chili is a bit tomatoey (guess they went easy on the cumin), but it and the Cheez Whiz complement the dog very well. There are a wide range of toppings to choose from, including peppers (sweet and hot), sauerkraut, chopped onion and sweet onion sauce. There's also a "Buffalo Mutt" with hot sauce and blue cheese, and for $5.75 they will sell you "One Big Mess"--a foot-long hot dog with a little bit of all 15 toppings they offer. The fresh-cut, skin-on fries probably would have tasted better had I consumed them on the spot rather than carried them back to my office off Rodney Square, which meant that they had been steamed for a while. But even in this degraded state, you could tell that these were the genuine article. A few fries that had managed to escape the steaming were crisp outside and nice and mealy inside. You can get them with Old Bay or Cajun spice if you want to add a little zest to your fries. The restaurant describes its hot dogs as Chicago-style--and the walls are decorated with photos from the Windy City--but when I asked her, the waitress told me they weren't Vienna Beef wieners, the top brand in Chicago. They were every bit as good, though, and much better than local fave Dietz & Watson. She did not, however, divulge the supplier's name. Guess you gotta protect your trade secrets as best you can. Service is fast and efficient, and the staff are friendly and surprisingly unharried given the steady lunch-hour traffic. I'll definitely be back for the dogs again, and will also try their burgers to see if they stack up alongside the franks. Burgers are topped similar to the dogs (though fewer options are offered), and there is a carb-watcher's special on the menu--no bun, but extra lettuce, tomato and grilled onion.

I've been on eGullet 10 months now, and it's only now that I stumble across this topic... ...which is funny, because it was an essay on the spread of chain restaurants in Center City Philadelphia that I had written for The Philadelphia Inquirer's Metro Commentary page last June that got me introduced to eGullet in the first place. You can probably divine my attitude on chain eateries from the essay. But I should add an update that may cost me points on the Pennsylvania board. The Quiznos Sub sandwich-shop chain has targeted Philly as a market for expansion, and outlets have sprouted like weeds over the past six months. One might think that sandwich fans in the home of the hoagie would not cotton to the new chain. This sandwich fan, however, is impressed by what Quiznos offers. Their signature gimmick--oven toasting all their sandwiches--actually does do something for the sandwich, their ingredients are very high quality, and they offer some interesting (and tasty) combinations. Apparently, many people must agree with my assessment, for I note that more-established rival chain Subway--which has operated in Philly for years--now offers oven toasted subs, including one that duplicates almost exactly a Quiznos offering. Besides Quiznos, the only other fast-food chain I patronize with any frequency is Popeye's Chicken. Again, this chain offers something that no one else does as well--spicy fried chicken with a crunchy crust. I have been known to pop into a Wendy's on occasion, and I used to stop by a Dunkin' Donuts on the way to my train every morning, but have since ceased this after I noticed my waistline expanding. I've also eaten more than once at Chili's, which isn't bad for casual dining, but there's a local place near me that beats them hands down on many dishes--and has the best Buffalo wings in town. I'll second Holly Moore's assessment of Maggiano's Little Italy, and even go so far to say that this chain would hold its own with many good independent Italian restaurants, though not with the best ones.

Is that a mac and cheese recipe you are willing to share? ← Glad to: 8 ounces elbow macaroni, uncooked (fusilli, cavatappi or shells are also OK) 2 tablespoons butter 2 tablespoons flour (for thicker sauce, use 1 1/2 tablespoons cornstarch) 1 1/2 cups milk White pepper and cayenne pepper to taste 8 ounces shredded extra sharp Cheddar cheese (about 2 cups) 4 ounces shredded Colby Jack cheese (about 1 cup) 6 ounces blue cheese, crumbled (about 1 cup) 6 ounces shredded Caciocavallo cheese (about 1 1/2 cups) Shredded Cheddar or buttered bread crumbs for topping Preheat oven to 350 F. Cook elbow macaroni according to package instructions. Drain and pour into a 2-quart casserole dish. In a large saucepan over medium heat, melt butter and stir in flour. Whisk in milk, add pepper and heat just to boiling over medium-high heat, stirring constantly. Stir in shredded cheese and continue cooking and stirring until cheese is melted. Pour cheese sauce over pasta in casserole. Top with additional shredded cheese or breadcrumb topping. Bake at 350 F for 20 minutes. 6 servings. I'm sure other varieties of blue cheese would also work well, but the creamy Gorgonzola has the advantage of its consistency. I will go so far as to warn you away from Treasure Cave, however; it's too bland. Let me know how you like this if you try it.

Whoops! Claudio's fresh mozzarella store is next door north of the original Claudio's. I think this had been the site of Renzulli's Water Ice. The space next door north of DiBruno Bros. House of Cheese on 9th is still vacant. (It's DiBruno Bros. Pronto--the prepared-foods store, not the cheese emporium--that's north of Claudio's.) They would do well to buy the place, but I think I'd miss the atmosphere of the current location. I'm sure the staff would be no less friendly and willing to educate you, though. Somewhat relevant aside: I went down to DiBruno's the Saturday before Easter to find a blue cheese to use in my mac and cheese for Easter dinner. The salesclerk recommended a creamy Gorgonzola. I also bought some Caciocavallo, and combined these two with New York State extra sharp Cheddar and Colby-Jack from the supermarket. The result was dynamite. One of my guests suggested I save some of the dish for the salesclerk next time I went, but everyone finished it off before I could do so.

It works extremely well, I can testify! Even rejuvenates day-old refrigerated slices pretty well in terms of crust texture, although the sauce density is often negatively impacted... ← I went out and bought a pizza screen at Fante's a few weeks back. (Aside: My first homemade pizza was a flop--I burnt the crust. The pie had been in the oven for about 15 minutes at 550F.) Would this method work with a screen as well? And should I have baked the from-scratch pie at 550F?

Yeah, a pretty sweet sauce with a little spice. According to their website (www.tommygunns.net) they also offer an "Alabama White Sauce" (bold bbq flavor w/o the carbs). I didn't try it, but maybe that's vinegar-based? ← Vinegar-based with mayonnaise.

Gary and I used to dine there regularly. The owners were friends of friends of ours, and one-half of the couple used to work at Penn--we used to see each other on the 40 bus headed home from work. I was surprised to hear the news from Phil when I ran into him at the Super Cruise Thursday evening. The back garden was a wonderful dining spot. Phil said they had been close to a deal to sell the place, but it didn't go through. I hope somebody buys the place and reopens it. Fritz Blank, perhaps? That rings a bell, but I think it was 13th and Spruce, where the Last Drop is now.

After reading this thread, I realize that I've now been here long enough that I can get nostalgic for places from years ago, including several already mentioned. I also remember the Magnolia Cafe fondly--it had a lively atmosphere and was more reasonably priced than Cafe Nola. I guess Tequila's is doing all right in its old location. (Does anyone out there remember La Panetiere, which occupied this space prior to the Magnolia Cafe's opening?) I never ate at The Commissary, but I did eat at both Frog and City Bites. I thought City Bites was very clever. The Frog experience (in its final location) was very impressive. The LeBus Pizza bus was parked right behind the Chemistry Building at Penn, which is where I began my Penn career. I loved their pies--especially the sweet, chewy crust. (I've since reverted to my childhood preference for crisp crusts.) Then there's the Napoleon Cafe, which was a wonderful restaurant (I never visited it in its incarnation as a pastry shop in Port Richmond) that had the sad fate of opening in Center City--at the site of the very last H.A. Winston's--only to have PATCO begin construction on an elevator right outside its front door the next month. The construction dragged on for two years, longer than Napoleon could hold out. Perhaps my most unusual restaurant memory involves Lickety Split!, one of the Restaurant Renaissance pioneers. But it's not a food-related memory. Gary and I had had a good meal at LS the night before Easter 1983, and afterwards, we went upstairs to the bar, where we got into a heated argument over something to do with life, careers, living together and stuff like that. So we left the restaurant grumbling and yelling at each other through the streets of Society Hill, when a group of women in plain dresses carrying candles came marching towards us. One of the women turned to us and said, "He is risen." That shut us up.

Judging from the reviews it's gotten, Good Dog has a burger that's Clements' equal and seems to have channeled some of the spirit of the prior establishment, revised and updated for a new generation. (I haven't had their burger yet. That makes two burgers I'm still jonesin' to try.) I'll second your assessment of Silveri's wings. I also remember when ownership of that place passed from the Silveri family to Joey Venuti, a man with alleged Mob ties who owned a series of somewhat sleazy black gay bars from the early '80s (I arrived in Philly in '83) until his unlamented passing about five years ago (his last establishment being the somewhat legendary, now-demolished Drury Lane, two doors down from McGillin's Old Ale House). Needless to say, he turned Silveri's into just such a place. I remember being there one evening shortly after the changeover and seeing some acquaintances I knew well come in, looking to have wings for dinner. You should have seen the shock on their faces as they took in what had happened. Silveri's is now a day spa.

Pine at Camac. I used to live on the next alley south of Jamison's. The owner was one of the sweetest and friendliest women I've ever met, and their pastries were indeed wonderful. They also had a good Sunday brunch for a while. Apparently, the rent rose faster than they could afford--since it was a small space, there wasn't much they could do to grow the business other than move or raise prices--so they decided to pack it in. Their closing was a real loss.