MarketStEl

I see I'm joining the party late, but I'm definitely game. My local Acme had a special on Perdue "Oven Stuffer" roasters, but I may just cut up this bird instead so I can get to fryin' soon. (Besides, it's quicker than roasting.) Though I'm a native Midwesterner, and thus can consider fried chicken a "native" dish, I've lived in the land of effete Eastern snobbery for too long to have my stuff considered "authentic," I'm afraid. Not to mention that I've had Popeye's imprinted on my taste buds and often try to approximate their spicy recipe. I'm a shallow-fryer myself and double-dip my chicken: beaten egg, flour mixture, beaten egg again, flour mixture again. This produces a crust that's just about as crunchy as a good batter-dipped deep-fried chicken. I'll let you know what seasonings went into the flour after I've prepared my next batch.

Sixty-seven, to be specific. I also know that York is the next county west from Lancaster, and that like Lancaster, county and county seat have the same name. (I also know why the local transit agency in Lancaster is called Red Rose Transit, and wonder why there's no White Rose Transit in York, but that's really a subject for another board. But I got Hanover in the wrong county. Oops! Stehman's and Diffenbach's don't make it to Philly-area supermarket shelves, it appears.

I've had a burger at their 3rd Avenue location (around East 35th), and it's pretty damn good.

Some real promising candidates here--including only the second hoagie shop I've run across that uses Hatfield meats (the other being Planet Hoagie around the corner from me in Center City Philadelphia; also in Media and Norristown). But how does Capriotti's get Hatfield meats out to Arizona, Vegas and California? However: I do not own a car. Any place I'd be able to try on my lunch hour has to be within an easy walk of 11th and French streets. Capriotti's original location on Wilmington's west side is the closest place so far, but even that would require a bus trip. I guess this says something about downtown Wilmington, though. Maybe I can persuade a co-worker who lives in North Wilmington to ferry me up to the Charcoal Pit on Concord Pike sometime.

How many clams for the clams? It's gonna have to be either a Saturday or an after-work dinner for me now. I don't get back into the city any more before 6:45 p.m. But I'm earning enough that I can afford to eat out again, even after paying down what I owe my current employer-at-one-remove.

Oh, well. I got here a bit too late, and besides, the majority sentiment on this thread is that you'd be paying for the theatrics, not the food, at Buddakan. But here goes anyway. I haven't been to Fork yet, so can't compare the two. But I wasn't disappointed with what I got at Buddakan this past Sunday night. The place was packed, and noisy, and busy, and our party of three got seated upstairs, near the stairs to the main floor. The upstairs balcony is not really well situated for viewing the show on the main floor, but that's okay. Being with a name-dropping good friend of mine didn't improve our location; I know that the celebrity factor (we lacked it) worked against us; can't say if the black/white ratio factor (two black males, one middle-aged, the other youngish-looking; one older white guy) made any difference. I thought the portions were fairly ample for the prices they charged. I'm used to seeing spectacularly plated but dainty servings at places with high-wow-factor decor and entree prices that start around $22 such as this one. But, our very competent waitress informed us, the service was family style, and the portions were what I would call the fancy-restaurant approximation of family size too. I ended up squeezing two days' worth of lunch out of the calamari salad and Asian barbecued pork I ordered. And those were the biggest onion rings I've ever seen anywhere. One of them was enough for me, but they served three. The breading wasn't that crisp, though. Maybe it was what I ordered, but I didn't think that the wasabi sauce on the pork slices was all that gloppy. It wasn't all that fiery, either, but then again, what most of the world calls "spicy" I call just getting warmed up. I don't know that I'd run back there to eat anytime soon, but as with my meal at Pod a couple of years back--courtesy the same name-dropping friend--I enjoyed the overall experience, which I would say is greater than the sum of its parts.

Capaneus' first two points are probably worth repeating here. Most of those really hot BYOs where you have to book your table three months ahead of time are also small restaurants. If you don't have a lot of tables to fill, you can in all likelihood fill them through word of mouth if your place is at all good. Stephen Starr doesn't do small restaurants. Most of his places are fairly large establishments, which would make it worth his company's while to list them on opentable.com. Some of them, like the Old City Continental and El Vez, draw enough traffic from the bar-hoppers and neighborhood strollers that they won't show up on the opentable Top Ten, yet (if El Vez is any guide) they're probably no less popular than the ones that do.

Hi, gang: For some reason, I feel I should be posting this query on the Pennsylvania board, as Wilmington, Del., is now for all intents and purposes a satellite city in Philadelphia's orbit. (Need proof? You can get there on SEPTA, but not on MARC. The city's one VHF TV station is co-licensed to Philadelphia. There's a New Castle County resident whose posts appear often on the Pennsylvania board but almost never here. Do I need to go on?) But Wilmington is in Delaware, and Delaware is the "Del" in "DelMarVa," so I guess I need to ask this question here. Anyway: For the past three weeks, and for who knows how many more weeks to come, I am working as an editor at MBNA, the giant credit-card bank headquartered right on Rodney Square in the heart of Wilmington. Now, it just so happens that the company has an excellent cafeteria (but please don't call it that) inside its headquarters, and as a result, most of the 1,000-plus people who work in this complex never leave it at lunch time, unless they want to take a stroll or jog in nearby Brandywine Park. For me, the whole point of having an office in the middle of a city is so that you can have others provide the ancillary services (feeding the workforce, tending to regular needs like haircuts, dry cleaning and convenience items) for you. Your workers get to animate the streets at midday to boot. But that's getting philosophical, and this is supposed to be about the food. So here's my query: I do want to amble around downtown at lunch and try some of the local eateries. Are there any really good restaurants or sandwich shops that I should check out? Any to avoid? So far, my Wilmington dining experiences consist of a sub shop in the Ship's Tavern district, across from which a Subway was plunked, and Pirate BBQ on Orange Street. There's got to be more. Clue me in.

I guess it was only a matter of time. The opening of a DiBruno Brothers Pronto at 9th and Montrose should have been a signal, but I ignored it. Then, last week, it hit me. The management of DiBruno Bros. finally figured out that their 9th Street customers were just as willing to shell out for really good cheeses from around the world as their Rittenhouse Square customers have been. Which is not to say that they weren't selling really good cheese on 9th Street in the past. They were. It's just that they were often selling it for less than they were on Rittenhouse Square. The price differential was more noticeable in their more commercial varieties. For instance, a mass-produced brand of smoked Gouda from Holland would set you back $5.99 a pound on 18th Street, but only $3.99 a pound on 9th Street. Or you could get a pound of their domestic house Parmesan for $5.99 on 9th Street. Now, maybe they've just stashed the smoked Gouda away where the patrons can't spot it so easily, but I certainly didn't notice any among the artisanal and specialty cheeses from around the world that now occupy the most prominent display spaces at the 9th Street shop. Or maybe they carry that stuff up the street at Pronto, where you can find pre-packaged quantities of several of their bast-selling cheeses. And that domestic Parmesan? It's not $5.99 a pound any more, and you have to specify it. Ask for Parmesan grated there, and they'll give you Reggiano Parmigiano--admittedly a much better variety, but also costlier. Now that I'm making a decent paycheck, I'm quite willing to pay for these really good cheeses--and that "cheese plate of the week" feature where they throw in a tasting guide and cheese knife if you buy all of their recommended varieties is a neat deal too, and a good way to learn about new cheeses. But this nonetheless strikes me as yet another departure from the bargain-hunter's-paradise ethos that used to rule most Italian Market merchants. I'm not at all convinced that the slow disappearance of the good-but-cheap stuff is an unalloyed good. What's a food lover with limited means to do any more?

Well, since it seems I'm about the only person on this board who thinks Planet Hoagie really was all that--but then again, I think Hatfield kielbasa is better than the national brand most supermarkets carry, it seems, exclusively--you may wish to discount this suggestion 20%, but: Maybe you might also want to check out Merlino's at 15th and Ellsworth. They're only open during the daytime; like a number of other good hoagie shops, they close when they run out of bread or at 4:30 pm, whichever is later. Their hoagies are ample, well-constructed and tasty; the hoagie rolls are unusually light and airy. Meats are Dietz & Watson.

Quirky--check. Home-cooked-style--check. Inexpensive--whoops! Worth it? You bet, especially when you toss Carmen in with the meal. And the waiter was playing a just-released CD from his jazz quintet when I went on a sunny afternoon in early January, another nice bonus. I didn't have the $12 to plunk down for the CD at the time. Now I do, and I have some good news to pass on to Carman, who was supportive and encouraging as we discussed my own life situation. Guess it's time for a return visit.

Oh, there's one big difference: The Reading Terminal Market is all indoors, beneath the former Reading Terminal trainshed, which is now the Great Hall of the Pennsylvania Convention Center. But it's good that you brought up the RTM, for it was a serious oversight on my part to leave it out of my walkable-edible Philly list. Best places to eat in "America's greatest public market" (a self-claimed distinction that some in Seattle and Baltimore would probably challenge): the Down Home Diner for fill-you-up home cooking using the best local ingredients, Salumeria for classic Philly hoagies with a flavorful twist, Tommy DiNic's roast pork stand, Delilah's for great soul food. Best days to visit: Friday and Saturday, when the Pennsylvania Dutch vendors and local farmers' stands are open for business. A little local history with food-related content: Market Street, the city's main east-west thoroughfare, got its name because of the food vendors' market stalls that were located in its center. When the Reading Railroad opened its new Philadelphia terminal in 1893, the food purveyors were relocated to the space under its trainshed, and thus the RTM was born. Ghosts of markets past: There are several places in Philadelphia where one of the city's narrow streets suddenly becomes wide for a six- or seven-block stretch. These were once sites of public food market sheds. All of these market sheds have been demolished save one: the one on Second Street from Pine to South streets. The historic "Head House Square" market shed is the site of arts and crafts markets on most summer Saturdays. The Italian Market is the direct descendant of another of these sheds, which had been located two blocks west of the present market, on 11th Street.

That wouldn't be the building nestled inside the trolley loop at 61st and Baltimore, would it? I remember when that place served barbecue. That was many years ago now. Wonder if it still smells as good?

Another old standby in the deluxe category that no one's mentioned yet: Susanna Foo (1518 Walnut). The chef whose name the restaurant bears prepares Chinese cuisine as a master French chef would, which makes sense, as she is Cordon Bleu-trained herself. It's almost directly across Walnut from, and a good $300-$400 cheaper for two than, Le Bec-Fin. Newer arrivals, including the revived Striped Bass under Stephen Starr management, have somewhat eclipsed this establishment, but it remains one of the best elegant dining experiences in town. On the other-places-to-visit list, here's one that doesn't often make the list of the usual tourist suspects, but you will be richly rewarded for seeking it out: the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, at 33rd and South/Spruce streets. This is one of the finest archaeological museums in North America, with excellent collections of Greek, Roman and Egyptian artifacts along with material from Asia and the Americas. Getting around the place may be a bit harder than usual because of a major construction project that will finally air-condition the building, but all the exhibit spaces are open.

I can tell a difference among brands of cream cheese. The Super Fresh (A&P-family) store brand, America's Choice, is sweeter and firmer than Philly. Some other brands I've tried -- Smithfield, for instance -- are a little saltier. The old Genuardi's store brand stank--too soft and too salty; I don't know whether it's improved now that Safeway owns the chain. My own taste preference runs towards America's Choice.

So what did you think of that marketing move where the USDA renamed the grade below Choice? It was "USDA Good"; now it's called "USDA Select"--and I see this grade more often now in supermarket meat cases. I vaguely recall the change was promoted as a way to get people to eat leaner meat (there's less marbling in Select meat than in Choice or Prime). Probably all of the above. Filet mignon is rather sweet and not terribly beefy-tasting. A good braised or barbecued brisket is much more satisfying.

Well, if LA is the least pedestrian big city, Philadelphia is probably at the opposite end. Lots of us who live in the middle of the city walk to our jobs, so why wouldn't we walk to eat? The two neighborhoods that have the highest concentrations of restaurants you can walk among are Chinatown (8th to 11th streets, Arch to Vine) and Old City (Front to 5th streets, Race to Walnut). 2d Street in Old City is chock-a-block with eateries and clubs. As is South Street from Front to 7th, Philly's in-town Boardwalk. "The hippest street in town" tends to draw the kiddies more than the grownups, but there are some very grown-up restaurants in the area (Monte Carlo Living Room, Downey's). Of course, a must-walk for any foodie is South 9th Street from Christian Street to Passyunk Avenue--the Italian Market. (Or, if you prefer, you can run up this street, like Rocky did.) Saturday is the best day to stroll this open-air food emporium, which is studded with sandwich shops, sit-down restaurants and take-out places. The most interesting places to eat in the Italian Market aren't Italian, though--they're Latino: Taqueria Veracruzana and Plaza Garibaldi, both located just off 9th on Washington Avenue. Two blocks further west on Washington is a huge Asian shopping plaza with an excellent pho cafe (Pho 75); three blocks east of the Italian Market on the same street is another Asian strip mall with a bakery-cafe (Ba Le) that makes excellent bahn mi ("Vietnamese hoagies"). There are other neighborhoods, both in and beyond Center City, where a walk will reward you with many good places to eat. Rittenhouse Square, University City, South Philly--all are very walkable, and all have plenty of good eating on most street corners.

Let me know when you plan to hit: Dahlak (I'd like to say hi to Amare) Taqueria Veracruzana Plaza Garibaldi I can't say I'll make all of them, but I certainly will clear the decks for Dahlak.

And La Mediteranee! Which, I see, is no longer (like, I presume, the House of Toy). We did a spoof photo shoot for our high school newspaper in La Mediteranee my senior year. Believe it or not, that was the only time I'd been inside the place. Stix? Interlopers from St. Louis, they were. (Though they did fill a hole left by the closing of Emery, Bird, Thayer.) Now it's all Dillard's. Which is why the news that Federated is buying May is good from where I sit--we may yet see the return of Macy's to Kansas City (though it would probably be at the cost of the Jones Store's disappearance). Not, mind you, that it matters all that much in my day-to-day life now, just as long as they don't muck around even more with Strawbridge's.

"When you're really looking...for honest homestyle cooking...dine at the fabulous Forum!" Did that dislodge that pesky Gold Buffet jingle?

After wading through this topic, it appears that most people base their assessments on two criteria, both of which matter: variety and quality--though it does appear that variety trumps quality slightly, if the number of people pointing out that they've had better meals outside New York but nonetheless rate New York tops on their list is any guide. But what about a city where the local food culture focuses on one particular niche, but does that niche very well? That is just about how I would describe my hometown of Kansas City. In what might also be interpreted as an act of municipal catharsis, the city has embraced barbecue, you'll pardon the term, whole hog. Heated debates break out over the merits of one 'que joint's ribs or another's brisket, or even whether burnt ends (the city's signature contribution to the cuisine) should be served at all. With all the fuss made about barbecue, you'd soon forget that there were restaurants in town that served anything else. (There are--dozens of them--some of them very good indeed.) I'm guessing that such cities would not make anyone's "most interesting food cities in the world" list because they narrowly specialize, but I would suggest they do merit inclusion in lists of "food cities worth a visit" simply because there you're more likely to run into the best examples of a certain cuisine than you would elsewhere. (To underscore my point, go look at all the discussions of barbecue in New York City on the New York board.)

Yep. Bookbinders Foods is a subsidiary of Silver Spring Gardens, Inc., of Eau Claire, Wis. The company claims it is the world's largest grower and processor of horseradish; it sells horseradish, mustard and specialty sauces under its own label.

Anyone out there tried a Spanish white called (I believe) Las Brisas? I bought a bottle of this (n.v.) at the Chestnut Street store a week ago, and everyone who had a taste of it loved it. It was a crisp white wine, very citrusy--mainly orange and grapefruit flavors. Not too bad a value, either, at about $10. Goes great with fish. Pity the fish I served it with had been left out somewhere before I got it.

Oh. My. God. Such a nostalgia trip! I knew Kansas City, Kansas, had all the melting-pot ethnic groups, but I didn't realize how many of them it had. After that, the discussion seemed heavy on the JoCo/southwest KC stuff--what, nobody hung out at O.G.'s? (O.G.'s, on 31st Street just west of Indiana, was Ollie Gates' first establishment, run separately from his dad's Gates' Ol' Kentuck' Bar-B-Q at 12th and Brooklyn. It was a combination 'que joint and lounge--my mom would often stop there after buying records at Soul City Records at the corner of 31st and Indiana.) Despite what I said above, I also remember a lot of the places discussed in that thread over on Chowhound and the two you mention above. I'd take the 39th Street crosstown bus every Saturday to my bowling league on the Country Club Plaza and often eat at Woolworth's next door or at Watkins Drugs. I also remember all those cafeterias--Putsch's on the Plaza, the Forum and Myron Green downtown. (Myron Green also ran the lunchroom at Pembroke-Country Day, where I attended school from 7th to 12th grade. And on my way from KC to Cambridge, Mass., to attend college, my traveling companion and I had lunch at a Forum Cafeteria on East 9th Street in downtown Cleveland.) The Wishbone. Stephenson's Apple Farm. Sydney's Drive-In. The Gold Buffet. Winstead's. Smaks. I remember that someone once wrote that in Kansas City, the best dining out took place in other people's houses. Well, maybe for those used to the French standard (and while we're talking French, what about La Bonne Auberge in Antioch Center north of the river?), that might be true, but the city certainly didn't lack for decent places to eat even in the 1960s and 1970s. (I left KC in '76, and have been back only twice since then.) Oh, Gawd, the talking cars! I'm afraid that trumps Bill Ireland, or the genie with the Schneider Ford.

The new Old Original Bookbinder's is much smaller than the old Old Original Bookbinder's. It's also brighter, judging from the one photo of the place I've seen, though there's still plenty of semi-dark wood.