Carrot Top

I've been enjoying reading the responses so much that for a moment I really could not remember why it was I asked. Thinking back on it now, my asking the question sprung from reading a discussion in another thread where the person posted a question about "how to make something" and there were several responses. Some of the responses were direct but required linking to a recipe. Other responses went further afield in discussing the subject. Instead of "just" speaking to the specific demand of the person posting the question, other parts were brought up that could have (if one were to look at the question in a global or expansive sense) an effect on this thing he was requesting a recipe for. Several of these sorts of posts were submitted and the person who asked the original question seemed to get angry with the extra information being given and he summarily asked everyone to "get back on track" or some such words. That brought to mind the question of how many people were interested in cooking, and in learning about cooking, only in a straight-line pattern. . .as opposed to those who were interesting in learning it in a way that had "more to it". I was just curious to see what people would say, about recipes, as these are our maps, in general, to many new ways of cooking. Not many people today learn from their mothers or next-door neighbors. When I was first a chef, I cooked from recipes and taught cooks one-on-one hands-on what it was we were going to do. That worked okay one-on-one. But when I became an executive chef and had many cooks to whom I was required to give direction, this one-on-one did not work as well, particularly in the beginning, for there were too many new things being made and too many cooks and too much production required and too many hours of meals shall I go on? As I tell my kids, now, I am not an octopus. Only two hands. So I had to learn to write a recipe and write it so that nobody could misunderstand it. Each step had to be defined, but defined in such a way that the recipe would be very quick and very easy to read (for someone that knew how to cook). It was a wonderful and demanding experience and it taught me a lot about how different cooks look at the process of cooking. These standardized recipes were needed because the guests expected to get what it was that they knew they were getting. There was to be no inconsistency, unless that 'inconsistency' was a planned one, either by us developing a new recipe or by them requesting something specific and personal. For myself, finally, I do prefer Elizabeth David to anyone on earth as far as writing recipes goes. But her format certainly would not work in all situations. So. That's why I ask. Just curious, as usual.

At this point I think our discussions are bordering on the rude, considering that the subject here is supposed to be the excerpt from the book. If the entire thing is deleted, I won't be too surprised. Two final comments though. I prefer to drive a car with an manual transmission. German or Italian, please, for then you can feel the road. Chokes are fun, too, particularly on boats and lawnmowers. And standardized recipes are in standard use in fine restaurants. Let's stop, project, unless it has to do with the book. It's not right.

Sort of sounds like eating pop-tarts at summer camp. Not a lot of calories in those things for a grown man (or woman for that matter) who is doing physical labor though. You won't get fat on those.

Graham got that cute sunburn on his cheeks out fishing on the lake, right? That's one thing an MRE meal won't do for you.

Osnav, Thank you for the information on all those various points. It is always interesting to learn more about the things that surround us in our daily lives. I did sign up to receive Saveur on-line for the six months. Did I think it would be free as in "scot-free"? No. But considering how often I read the magazine it was easier to do than to subscribe, even to the lazy point of not having to fill out a subscription form. It was made so easy and the trade-off so little. Will I get spam? I hope not. Will they imbed cookies? So what. If there is something else I should be worried about, please let me know what it is, so I can then worry. Would I do this on-line "free" subscription for Cook's Illustrated or certain other magazines that I read? No. Because they are worth the money and the time spent to subscribe to them, to me. So to me, it's just about trade-offs and convenience. Not really about money or "something for free". P.S. It just came to mind that eGullet itself was even worth the the money and the time spent to fill out a "subscription form" to it. Well worth it. ( No, they didn't pay me in any form or manner that anyone even in their wildest imaginings could think of to say that. It's just true.)

Are scorpion fish what we call here the lizard fish? I caught one of those by mistake once and was so appalled by him that it was all I could do to stand to take him off the hook.

You just know what your priorities are, Chufi. Get those dishes clean so you can eat quick as a happy little Chufi-colored mouse right off of them again!

I'm waiting for it to come out in paperback.

Those racasse are rather angry-looking fellows, aren't they. Amazing, the bounty of the sea and streams. And such variety and personality.

Ohhhhh. I am remembering again why I love you.

You have research to back that up, right, Rogov?

Doug, Can you tell us, what were your "reasons" for writing the book? Thanks.

Well, okay, project. You have definitely left me speechless this time. ............................................... Except for one note. If computer systems did manage to control everything, life would be very boring. And fewer "real" creative opportunities would arise if there were no longer any problems to be solved. Creative opportunities within the real metier, not within the computer field. There's many a delicious dish that has come about from the serendipitous, which is part of the flip side of total control. And the drive that leads one to create something that is "above the usual" generally does not start with the idea of control or of money. It starts with a love of beauty and surprise. Not the final dollar that is to be made. .................................................... But of course one would have to have actually cooked for a while to realize that, maybe. And not be scared to color outside the lines while doing it.

I can't quite decide whether those squid legs are smiling or ready to attack, torakris.

Yes, that "Don't Try It At Home" looks fun, doesn't it. Just noticed that this was your first post, Tony, so hello hello and welcome!

I've always wondered about two things to do with those MRE's. The first is, what are the portion sizes? The second is, how would someone "out in the field" (i.e. without a table to lay it all out on to organize it) manage to put it together. . .is it a hassle? The inclusion of Tabasco in every MRE is as it should be. I have no questions about that. And that is one reason why New Orleans will be back and kickin' soon. For who could live without Tabasco, I ask? Sh**load of work to do, though. But it's cheaper than joining the Health and Fitness Club for getting in shape, I guess. Or at least that is something to sort of think of as you haul trees away and hope the insurance people will be nice. Good thoughts to you and yours.

Nothing to add to the excellent compendium of names, here. Lately I just call either one of them by a conjuction of both their names because it is impossible to figure out who is the one causing the trouble, so in the middle of their bickering I confusedly shout "Just stop it, Krdrew!" (thereby combining the names Kristen and Drew and covering all bases ). There is a food term I use often with them, though, often. "Stop percolating!" Sigh.

This looks like something Carl Sagan would use to demonstrate The Universe, really. Hey. The "nice" dinner thread is very nice. But here, you get to compete among thousands for the silliest-looking things ever. Gloves are off, competition is strong. I'm thinking that a nice little show in a gallery on the Upper East Side would not be remiss as the collection grows. The only question would be: What would we serve at the Opening?

Iceberg, cooked, only in that peas recipe. But there is a nice recipe for "Lattughe Ripiene in Brodo" (stuffed lettuce leaves in broth) that uses Boston lettuce, if you are interested.

Here is a link that defines the initial development of the study of proxemics, Chris: Edward Hall: Proxemics Although the name of the website sort of makes me snicker (Center for Spatially Integrated Social Science) it is rather a serious course of studies. I still have not found any more specific information on your question but that is due to the fact that I am a story-teller and have never been too interested in How to Find Facts. Unless those facts pop up right in front of me in real life. That, I can accept. You might have better luck than me in tracing more information if it does interest you to do so. Bon chance!

Yes. Busboy as a character in Ulysses. I am enjoying this thought. With the home kitchen as a metaphor for a Life on Rough Seas. . .an adventure, a saga. . . (I still say that that clean-well lit space was rather jolly, really, as Ernie wrote it. He must have had some really good red wine that night at dinner. . . )

Ei yi yi, project. I think that you have such a deep interest that you might want to really get a job in a restaurant. And luckily for the world, restaurants (though not usually ADNY) do have lots of openings, often, for those who want to work and who want to apply themselves. Good restaurants do have a number of planning systems. A great number. Again, I will refer you to Amazon under the Professional Books. Seek "Restaurant Management and Operations" and you will find them. There are well-thought out policies and procedures that cover each tiny element of detail that happens. One of the driving systems of the kitchen is a Production Schedule, which is made up based on anticipated needs which are based on knowledge and experience. Which I would guess they have at the restaurants mentioned in the book above. There is also menu engineering, pricing structure, food and labor costs, etc. etc. Running a restaurant is a complex undertaking but people do know how to do it. But guess what. Life happens. People walk in the door to be fed, and people are all different. Nothing is completely stable, ever, in the restaurant business. And software, and systems, will never be able to iron it out. It's just that darn aggrevating human element that messes things up, you know? For goodness sakes, if people would just do as anticipated, the thing would run right ship-shape. People. Life. Food (which in its own way is also alive). They simply refuse to be totally controllable. Unless you aim to be a McDonald's and even then I imagine that sh** happens. And that, makes for creativity often. . .and it makes for challenges in the kitchen often. . .and it makes for a day where at the end of it anyone who has faced these challenges which will never be finally captured before they happen. . .it makes these people go home knowing that they used their brains and training well, to put out a good meal that would make people happy. Life. It happens. And when life happens, and it can not be pinned down onto a production schedule nor a written menu, this is where writings such as these stories above are useful. They show the reality vs. the planned. They show how one can manage it and manage it well, if one does feel they need a useful reason beyond entertainment for the reading. P.S. I keep having this feeling of deja-vu in these discussions with you, and finally I realize what it is. I feel like we are those two movie reviewer guys on TV who keep taking completely different viewpoints on everything. It works for them. Maybe we should go on the road.

Yes. There definitely is a sense of "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" in this piece. Just set at home in the kitchen rather than at a table in a bar.

Imagine you are seeking a recipe. For anything. The specifics of the exact thing you wish to cook is not the point at the moment. You start looking in books, speaking to friends, or searching on eGullet. Finally you have a variety of recipes in front of you, all for the exact same final product. Let us assume that all are in a good basic form to start off with. They are all clear, all set up in a way that can be easily read and understood. But then the differences start. There are some recipes in front of you that go beyond the others in certain ways. Instead of just answering your original question that was basically for a list of informational items and exact things to do, these recipes have some additonal information. The information might have to do with the sort of pan to use. The information might have to do with the variety of fruit used and how it may affect the final product. The information may be that a certain sort of knife will make an easier and finer job of it. These recipes include information that expands upon what you originally asked for. Which recipe would you prefer to receive or use? The one that is blunt and unadorned, useful and clear yet with nothing beyond the original point? Or the recipe that adds more information on one or on a variety of the things that are involved in the process of final creation? Which would be more useful to you? Why?

Well. . .okay. This is hard to admit. But I'm a "neat freak". I've found that it is not a quality that is attractive to most people. It seems to make them feel like I think they should be neat freaks too, which I don't, but they do anyway. My only excuse for this failing is that I can not pull my mind together if the house is not orderly. That shows how very fragile the sinews of my mind are, I realize. Oh well. Really. It is totally incredible how one's sanity can seem to rely on (to use Busboy's example) the dishes being clean. Aaaaaaaargh.