Carrot Top

Yes. . .I daresay he was. In my imagination, he looks like Simon from the Avengers. Without the bowler, of course. Pity about the fork-in-the-throat thing. It's a shame that Emma wasn't around to save the day. (She probably was out buying new boots-to-save-the-world in. They do wear out so quickly nowadays.)

Very good... a film I adore, partly because of that Fig Scene. ← My goodness. insomniac, you are so good at this that I am not sure whether you should write a book on the subject or merely head down to the pub to make bets on your guesses! You all are rather incredible, actually. I am awed, truly.

← I never remember a single thing from movies, but "Night of the Shooting Stars" just popped into my mind. Probably wrong, but anyway. (Or "Amarcord". The quote sounds Fellini-ish. )

I like the way Mr. Andrews says "Really!" in this scene. Isn't that the perfect retort when being attacked by gunmen. Ah, and what lovely wreckage of the table. Maybe that's what's needed when guests stay too long. It just has such a satisfying air about it. ................. Thanks for the second installment. I liked it even more than the first.

There's a book I've been meaning to look at for a while, and today was finally the day. Eating Architecture Chock-full of "food in art" in both visual and conceptual ways. It reads a bit too much like Artforum for me to concentrate well on it (though there are lots of pictures, that helps ) but for those with a taste for this, it is a banquet. An amazing book, fantastic resource. Much more to chew on than simply the architectural/food link. It's not just about "buildings and food".

Yummy. My mother was a non-cook, so none of that stuff for me growing up, but I do know those who have fond memories of things like that. Now you are making me want marrow on toast.

I just leafed through a book that seems to have just the sort of thing you are looking for, Jessica. Four hundred and sixty-four pages of it, in fact. Fashionable Food - Seven Decades of Food Fads Full of quixotic fare, loaded with recipes of interest.

Milk Toast.

The polls never close here. Do continue to vote for your favorites. I just hate counting things, so thought I'd get started so there wouldn't be too much to do all at once.

(But you *do* sound like an English major, SB. )

Here's the totals so far for 1950-2000. All combined in one category, for purposes of essentialism. Top Defining/Iconic/Emblematic Foods of the USA: Burger 10 votes Fried Chicken 8 votes Hot Dog 6 votes Coke 5 votes Pizza 4 votes (with the addendum added that two women are ready to fight for it. . . not a thought to be discarded . . . ) Sandwich/Hero 4 votes Apple Pie 4 votes ............................................. There were twenty-seven other suggestions which had either one or two votes each. And I'd like to add "potato chips" somehow.

Wow. That was an unexpected surprise, and a very nice one, Owen. Who would'a thunk it, of Syracuse! A lovely story. Strangely enough I've heard of Salt Potatoes, though I've never been to Syracuse. For several years I was responsible for defining the menu for the "New York State Festival" held in Washington DC which was one of those "members of Congress meet big business" events. Part of the process of defining the menu was to take, sort, then choose or discard. . . the food ideas of the members of Congress' representatives in meetings that they came to solely to fight for their voting district's specialities. Salt Potatoes on the menu was argued by someone who really made an impression on me, I remember. I think I got samples and booklets and lovely letters all about Salt Potatoes. They are much beloved. Can't remember whether I did finally include them - will see if the menu is around here somewhere . . . The only other food argued as strongly came from Buffalo. Red Hots.

Emblematic? I've already confused things by saying "defining" or "iconic" but to be fair, I did try to describe what those things were supposed to be. Que ce que c'est, this "emblematic"? Describe, please.

Well, I didn't post "California Pizza". Just said it was a thought, and really it is the name of the thing that is the reason why I'm still considering the idea of either "pizza" added to my list as "icon" or "California (or whatever) Pizza" added to my own list as future idea of (maybe) describer". We've taken pizza from the Italians (as they took the concept of baked dough with toppings from somewhere else likely at some point in time)(or maybe the Italians brought it here through immigration) and have kept the name and the same ingredients of one sort of pizza that exists in Italy, but then again the ingredients are *not* the same, they are more highly processed and the whole thing tastes like its the same family, but not the same thing. It's a problem of "words" or names, for me. I agree with you on the last paragraph. Interesting, too, how our iconic foods seem to take this shape.

To my mind, it probably would come in as #1 (in some ways) as "definer". But then again, I have two teenage children. Sometimes, I'd like to come between *them* and their pizza. I just can't see it clearly named as "icon", unless it is specified as "American Pizza" or (something I was going to add to my proposed 2000-2050 list) "California Pizza" which stretches the boundaries that much further.

Here is a chance to discuss that very topic. Personally, I have nothing against essentializing. Whether it's my wardrobe or whether it's thoughts of food. I'm all for it.

In another thread, Pontormo raises this discussion: Here is the chance to discuss regionalism, class, location, and histories of immigration. . .powerful media and corporations, chain restaurants, Stouffers and take-out joints. So tell me about it. What's the scoop? What are we all about, in our many food guises? What is different, unique, special that you can tell us about the food of your part of the USA?

I made the post saying that pizza came to mind originally as belonging on the list (whatever the list is) then changed my mind (based on some other thoughts), so I guess it's me you're intending to fight against? Or is there a larger anti-pizza conspiracy I know nothing about out there? I don't feel that strongly about it, really, and my boxing gloves have simply worn out from fighting about oh. . .what was it. . .too long ago to remember. Fight if you must. Bravery and loyalty are wonderful virtues. I will just continue to make lists, tally counts and add comment once in a while. Final votes will tell us whether pizza makes the cut or not.

Certainly we could find many forms of the United States if the point was to separate and define. And we do. There is, however, a culture that people both in the country and outside the country think of as being simply "of the country", before they start sorting and separating. That was what I wanted to hear, from any individual who wanted to post, no matter where they were from or what United States was theirs or was not theirs. That question (whose culture? whose country?) could be asked each time someone says "French food" or "Italian food" or "Chinese food" any other sort of food, and naturally the same question is cogent and valuable to ask in every culture or country. This was just a "one size fits all" question, Pontormo. You know, bargain-basement type, not terribly deep or scholarly. A broad sweep of the brush. As for threads that have some import upon the question, there may well be. If you come across them, I'd love to have a link posted . . . To minimize the central role of regional dishes was never my intent. No thesis here, just a question or two about what thoughts might pop quickly into someone's mind if they were asked a question. How I love that line Emerson wrote: "Sometimes a scream is better than a thesis."

Yummy. Just thought of another "strange" cooking method. Smoking fish or meat or poultry but not outside, but rather, in the oven. "Oven-smoked". I've done it several times. Oh! How about "hundred year old eggs". Aren't they "cooked" by being buried in a certain soil and mineral mixture? (Edited to change "thousand" to "hundred". Zeros. How can a nothing stand for a something, I ask you. )

Actually, following that thought along *logically* (something I personally rarely bother to do ) "Chinese Take-Out" would have to be on my list of our culturally defining foods. I read somewhere that the average-size town in the US has five Chinese take-outs in the area. Here, we have six.

As I woke up this morning, all of these popped into my mind. No idea why, but anyway. Baking on bed of salt Roasting inside closed pastry crust or inside clay Simmering inside a sheep's stomach lining. (Or, I imagine, any other stomach lining one could find. But maybe the animal has to be a ruminant. ) Stacking multiple bamboo steamers always seemed an incredibly creative cooking method to me - not "strange", but thought I'd include it anyway . . .

Actually, you've made me realize that I'm talking about two slightly different concepts here. The first is the idea of "cultually defining foods". Which of course would be what a cultural anthropologist would find signs and proofs of when looking into a specific time and place. The second is the idea of "cultural icons" which are clearly understood "signs" that represent a culture. And I think they *are* different things, due to how we communicate ourselves and how we are understood. At first, I was thinking in terms of culturally defining foods, myself. The hamburger, hot dog, and pizza popped right into my mind of being the three things that defined US culture. They are everywhere. (As are so many of the things that others added on this thread!) Then I switched to thinking of cultural icons, and "pizza" did not fit, for that also represents Italy, naturally, and I was looking for something that defined solely one place, in this case, the USA, in a broad and clear swath that anyone who thought of the food would think of the place. ......................................................... Interesting answers, anyway, from everyone. Maybe when I total them we can take yet another "vote" (the democratic way ) and see what comes out tops. (I'll do two categories, the "culturally defining" and the "culturally iconic". )

"S'mores" is the diminution of "Some Mores". It is a dessert that people (it's supposed to be mostly for children, but that doesn't mean a thing to any adult that happens to be there ) make when camping out in the woods. You take a graham cracker, place a chocolate bar on top of it, toast a couple of marshmallows on a stick over the campfire, and when they are just perfect, pop them off of the stick and right on top of the chocolate, where they melt the chocolate a bit. Top with another graham cracker and you have a "s'more". People like them so much that they make weak copies in their kitchen, but to me it's the burnt marshmallow that matters. It's important to remember to always get part of the toasted sticky marshmallows somehow stuck in your hair and glopped onto your clothes while burning your fingers trying to pull them off the stick. Otherwise it just won't taste right somehow. I can't believe I didn't think of those two. It surprises me that your list for the future does not include some form of iconic Asian-American food, Michael. I think mine will. Right next to "tacos". Ahhhh. That would be very very good! Peanut butter is definitely "ours", the peanuts originally by way of Africa (?), but the spread itself only truly loved here. . . When one says "TV dinner" one thinks "USA".

A lot of really good answers so far! Many similar things, yes. When the posts stop coming in, I'll tally up what everyone "voted" for. I don't blame you for wanting to add these, Johnny. If they *were* our cultural iconic foods, we'd probably have a much better reputation in the world-wide scheme of "gastronomy". Let's just keep them quiet, though, hmmm? The price and availability of Maine Lobster is already difficult enough to deal with. I'm just happy you didn't choose milt. Though it *would* be rather amusing as cultural iconography. What, you didn't know it's already available? It's. . .(oh nevermind, I don't have time right now to tell you all about it. . .) ( ) Wow. . .the second vote for "prescription" cuisine. And I have to say the idea never crossed my mind. Interesting. . . Here's my 1950-2000 list: Hamburgers Hot Dogs Coke Corn on the Cob Cotton Candy *or* S'Mores (Do they make cotton candy in other places? Does anyone *outside* the US know about s'mores and how they fit into our culture? I don't know. . .I was going to use french fries for the fifth answer but then thought of their prevalence (under different names) in some other countries. . .)