Chris Amirault

So who's gonna make some of the stuff?

Thanks. It's a dirty little secret, the sort of thing you discuss in unfinished basements.

Not that Nick needs me to give him propers, but: One of the many remarkable features of a Tour at Alinea is the tasting. The sommelier seemed to learn quite quickly who was having how much of each, and I'm quite sure each of us had just the right amount of every wine served. The pairings themselves were impeccable, and, as Nick says, were always enough to carry you through a particular course -- or courses, as sometimes the wine would bridge one course to the next, transforming in your mouth as it did so.

No one is suggesting that Gruppo Campari did anything cavalier. I'm wondering out loud about how we should understand these differences, and they're not all in my mouth. We'll have to disagree as to whether carmine should count as part of "the original formula," but the honor of amaro makers is insufficient cause to ask whether the Platonic essence of the beverage is above reproach. For example, there are clearly different proofs shipped out to different markets. As William Sertl wrote in Saveur, Surely we can agree that the proof has an effect on the taste of Campari, and thus that it's not so outlandish to suggest that its makers are not above tinkering with what's in the bottle depending on the destination market. A cynic might go so far as to point out that this wouldn't be the first multinational corporation to spin well-worn tales about "the original recipe" as a keen marketing gimmick to use when tweaking the production of a hallowed beverage; just ask "Classic Coke" fans who are still pissed off about the replacement of sugar with high fructose corn syrup in the same year that New Coke got deep-sixed in favor of the "original recipe." In the end, that's not really too important to me, having neither a carmine allergy nor a constitutional opposition to red dye nor a need to prove I'm down with or critical of "Italian culture." I just think that the new stuff clearly pales in comparison to the old, and I'm hoping to find out if others agree. Age, sun, heat, and so on may all be factors, no doubt. I've been having a blast digging around in the backs of area liquor stores to find ancient bottles of Amer Picon, Chartreuse, and so on, and their taste is indeed very different from the newer bottles in my cabinet. However, unless there are significant changes to the formula (Amer Picon, e.g.), those changes are subtle; only in this case does different mean quite a bit worse. Whatever the reason, it's a significant enough difference in my mouth to warrant purchasing the old Campari. Perhaps some other folks can buy some of the new Campari, age it for a few years, and report on the pronounced qualities the bitter flavor in relation to the citrus? edited to clarify the point about Amer Picon -- ca

I'm not sure how we know that "Italians" aren't eager to change their amari formulae -- after all, the Gruppo Campari folks just changed one ingredient that's significant enough for us to talk about it here -- but the more I snoop around the more the change seems connected not only to the vegan/vegetarian issue but to possible concerns about carmine as an allergen. Click here for a 2006 AP article on the FDA looking into the matter, which makes me wonder whether or not we Yanks are drinking a product created for the litigation-heavy US market. Anyone outside of the states got a bottle nearby? Meanwhile, I hope that a few others will try out the relatively unscientifically controlled side-by-side tasting, because if they confirm the difference, the older carmine-based Campari is worth finding and hoarding.

My batch (quartered, salted, extra lemon juice to cover) has spent six weeks curing so I'm going to try them out tonight with a Claudia Roden chicken dish (djaj mqualli) from The New Book of Middle Eastern Food. What other uses have you found for them?

I'd hope that a few other people would do this, in part bc my blind, objective comparison confirmed my very subjective expectations. And, FWIW, my bottle of Aperol lists artificial colors on it.

Both old and new here are 48 proof (24%). I did a series of side-by-side blind taste tests today. It was a strange experience, as I kept wanting to have my very strong initial impressions proven wrong. I tried everything: tiny sips vs. bigger ones, rinsing with water, nibbling on bread. Each time, I could clearly identify the one or the other immediately, and the news is not good. I'll admit that my notes are probably hyperbolic, but they're also describing a distinction that's as clear as a bell. While I could detect no difference in the color of the two, the new Campari has a radically different flavor than the old. The new starts and ends with a strong bitter note that feels harsh in my mouth; the bitterness doesn't linger or shift but shoots right up the top of my palate and then fades off your tongue leaving little in its wake. There are some other notes in there, but they're pretty muddy. It's utterly one-dimensional. The old Campari has three distinct layers. It starts with sweet citrus, which gives way slowly to its increasing herbal spine, from which the bitterness rises gently but with force to end. The bitterness has a round quality that the new Campari utterly lacks: slowly enveloping, steamy warmth compared to a bucket of hot water over the head. I had this response over and over again. It was a depressing experience, let me tell you. I immediately drove to three area liquor stores and bought two bottles of the old stuff as soon as I found it at the third. The owner has guaranteed that there are a few out back, too.

I just found a copy of Thai Hawker Food here at the DCO Thai bookshop. At $6.45 plus shipping, it came in at under $15 -- about $30 less than the Amazon price. Will update when it arrives.

Well, that's definitive! Thanks.

Only made a few things but, so far, it's great. Tonight I made a cornbread of hers that uses only 1/4 tsp baking soda with two eggs and 2 c buttermilk, and it was bliss. Did I mention the 1/3 c melted lard?

Well, there's my weekend project, visiting lousy liquor stores looking for dusty bottles of Campari. Here's what I don't understand: if the buggers are only for color, then why the different (not as good) flavor? What's that all about?

I think that turtle beans are the variety that is cultivated as black beans by the big companies like Goya.

A most excellent point, sir.

Holly, I live half a block from a McDonalds, so I'll stop by soon and get the answers to these crucial questions. ETA: This is the first time that I have thought of the geographic fact in bold as a positive aspect of my existence.

No St. Germain?

Do tell. I can only find one reference to a Fresca Brava here, and it sounds pretty interesting.

Well, here, of course!

Holly, another gem on the history of our food. As a die-hard New Englander with cod fishing in my genes and Flo's fried clams as my "Dead Man Walking" final meal, I must admit that, against all reason, a Filet-O-Fish is my absolute favorite fast food item.

I agree about the beans being excellent as side players instead of on center stage. Ever since Russell mentioned using long beans in naw mai fon, they're a staple ingredient in that remarkable rice dish (along, of course, with lop yuk).

What's the best way to cook yard long beans? They seem to be in season now at our local Asian markets: dark green, pretty thin, not shriveling at the ends. My favorite way to cook them used to be a bean and sausage affair with confused Asian lineage but solid flavor. However, what with James Oseland's great Cradle of Flavor to help me along, I've become addicted to "Ching Lee's Braised Lemongrass Long Beans," another mashup (Malaysian and Chinese, this time) that combines lemongrass, ginger, candlenuts, soy, shrimp paste, and a few other things to make a remarkably hearty dish. It's become a staple in our house. How do you cook your yard long beans? What are your favorite ways to use them?

That's odd: JW Red was eight bucks more than the Famous Grouse I just picked up at the store here. Used it to make a Rob Roy, of course: 2 oz Famous Grouse 1 1/4 oz Carpano Antica 3 dashes Fee Brothers Whiskey Barrel Aged Aromatic Bitters About this drink I shall not grouse.

One of them -- and, as the above posts are indicating, probably an internally contradictory one. Martini?

I made chili for dinner and popcorn for a late night snack tonight, and I realized that I'm a purist about both. The idea of putting beans in my chili or parmigiano reggiano on my popcorn makes me want to institute a Department of Culinary Purity -- an impulse that I generally find annoying. So fess up. What are the dishes or foods that you absolutely do not modify from the classic version?

From reading this topic and a couple dozen online and print resources, I would surmise that the vast majority of Thai cooking programs are geared toward farangs who want to be able to say that they took a course and can now make pad thai and "curry." Since I live in a community with many expansive SEAsian markets and have been able to learn Thai cooking from a number of solid cookbook sources (most notably David Thompson's Thai Food), I don't really need to have the world of lemon grass, fish sauce, kaffir lime leaves, and fermented shrimp revealed to my wonderment. So I ask: does anyone know of more advanced courses in the Bangkok or Chiang Mai areas for someone who's got a pretty good grasp of the fundamentals of Asian and the basics of Thai cuisines? Ideally, we'd be talking about a teacher/guide who'd gladly take a grateful payment for an individualized afternoon of market shopping, prep, and cooking that focused on a regional cuisine. Hell, I'd do a stage in a street food stall. Ideas? Thoughts?