Nathan

I think you're right on that....."casual carnivorous dining"

this is the point! but you have to call it something. ← Momofuku Ssam Bar does seem to break the usual mold. My reservations about the NP meme is not with Momofuku Ssam Bar, but with all of the other purported NP places. All of the others make a plausible—in some cases, a more plausible—case for being included in some other trend, or indeed several trends.Now, if we see two or three more places clearly indebted to Momofuku Ssam Bar, then we can say there's a paradigm, and that MSB was its progenitor. What we have right now is an isolate. ← I think we might be trending toward an agreement here. for me, at least, Ssam Bar is the trend-definer....the other places fit best in the paradigm when seen in light of Ssam Bar. but I'd assert that Ssam Bar is the definitional foundation. this is where upcoming places like Tailor intrigue me...is it going to be a more casual version of WD-50 or is it going to be a molecular version of Ssam Bar? or something else entirely?

I've had whale meat (blubber really) in Norway. don't know what species it was (some are endangered, some are not). it was very fatty. don't remember anything else. Horse meat can be very good. heck, it's a regional specialty in Verona.

hmmm...there's no leaving early at this place...but I don't think they're asking people to pay two or three separate tabs. I would think that they pool their tips..... edit: but going to spaetzle_maker's post -- yeah, I have the same quandary sometimes...although usually bartenders tell you when you're being comped...some don't always....leaving you with situations where you don't know if you were comped or if they forgot. I tend to think the onus isn't on the customer in that situation. I always tip as if I've been comped and leave it at that.

good advice! unfortunately, my schedule doesn't really permit me to go in there early enough. it was clear that not all of the bartenders "got the memo".... I don't think anyone was trying to take advantage of me...I can well believe that a drink or two on occasion never made it from tab to tab (and I either didn't notice or thought I was being comped). but I've been a pretty regular customer and a good tipper so in my view that's hardly hurting them. regardless, this place is so incredibly popular that my absence will mean nothing. now if I had a blog and wanted to name names, I could be like this individual (who wrongfully maligned the Pegu Club): http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/..._shakedown.html and get myself linked to all over the internet....but I tend to think that's gauche for what is ultimately a miscommunication. (I'm still wondering, is there some sort of bar etiquette that I'm missing that says that if you have a tab with one bartender that you can't order from a second?)

oops!

This, I think, is exactly right. a quick comparison to my recollection is Lupa and Otto. Lupa received a $25 and under treatment (!!!) while Otto was two-starred in a full-length review by Grimes. Lupa is more expensive than Otto by almost any definition (in terms of food, wine didn't figure into the averages under Asimov---see August or just about any of his other reviews). it's under Meehan that the differentiation between the columns has become most explicit. (there's no way that I can see to justify the Otto/Lupa dichotomy)

There's an employee owned (several of the bartenders and managers are partners in it) restaurant cum bar that I've consistently gone to once or twice a week over the past eight months. I've also brought people with me, including groups of up to 12 or so. I've easily spent over a grand there on libations (probably quite a bit more). By any definition, I'm a "regular". As you would expect they'e comped me on occasion, I've tipped accordingly etc. Normal NY symbiotic customer/bartender relationship. A couple months ago this changed. Specifically, one night I came in, ordered a drink and the bartender misheard me and thought I ordered two of them (it was busy and loud...it always is there). I corrected him and took the one drink. At the end of the night when I got my tab (from a different bartender)...both drinks were on it (along with whatever I'd ordered since then). The second bartender (there's usually three working at any given time) took the drink off the tab but told me that I was "wrong." (I wasn't.) Since then I've noticed a couple of the bartenders becoming rather unpleasant (while others have remained friendly). A couple weeks ago when I came in one night with a friend...one bartender immediately motioned over another bartender (who is a partner) and he informed me that I "have to pay for every round on the spot in cash...no keeping a tab" (which is what I'd traditionally done there..being a regular). He went on to say (to the best of my recollection...it was very loud)...that'd they'd been "screwed" by me on drinks that I hadn't paid for when I ordered from one bartender and "got the tab from a different bartender" at the end of the night. Now, I don't have the foggiest clue whether this is true...it's certainly possible. I haven't kept close tabs on what I was drinking everytime I was there (I'm not always just buying drinks for myself...and it's a short stumbling distance from my apartment). but, I'd never thought of it as my job to keep track of my tab. they all know my name, it's not so hard to keep a centralized tab is it? who's responsibility is it to keep track of a customer's orders? the staff or the establishment? it's not like they haven't made plenty of money off of me. I'm leaning towards never going back. but I'm curious as to whether people (especially those of you in the industry) think I'm in the wrong here.

the $25 and under column reviews cheap (but usually good in some way -- it usually doesn't bother with complete crap -- unlike the main review column) restaurants that may not rise to a level of significance to merit a full review in the regular column. when an otherwise cheap restaurant is deemed significant enough (or especially great), it can be reviewed in the main column. all dolphins are porpoises. not all porpoises are dolphins. perhaps the most succint way to put this is: the main restaurant review column has never carried the subtitle (or title): $25 AND OVER

the Times has never purported the two columns as mutually exclusive. nor should they be. ← If the two columns aren't mutually exclusive, then why not simply eliminate the $25 and Under column altogether? Why have two different columns if Bruni reviews restaurants that are under $25, and the $25 and Under column does the same? Maybe the $25 and Under column should review Masa. ← that's simply nonsensical. google "venn diagram" besides, Bruni's hardly the first NY Times restaurant reviewer to review a restaurant which could have been in either column.

Kashrut. I have yet to see a convincing argument that there is anything distinctively different about, e.g., traditional Ashkenazi cooking and traditional non-Jewish cooking of Eastern Europe other than the fact that the Ashkenazi cooking is kosher. ← the same with Italy (the Jewish cooking of Rome is one of at least three major types of cuisine in Lazio....but all of them are Italian in sensibility with the divisions between the three centering around socio-economic status and in the Jewish case, religion).

the Times has never purported the two columns as mutually exclusive. nor should they be.

this is the point! but you have to call it something.

I find it hard to imagine that anything approaching anonymity can be preserved when (1) the same face appears three times within a relatively short period and (2) a very small amount of the food on the plate is eaten. If the latter is not the case, then, with ten restaurant meals a week, with proper sampling of multiple courses, the reviewer would make you, Steven, look like a zero size fashion model. ← well, Bruni's picture (the NY Times' restaurant critic) is posted throughout high-end restaurant kitchens in NY just so staff will keep an eye out for him. restaurants with four-star (the Times' highest accolade) aspirations have been known to hire a full-time person at their opening (until the review) just to keep an eye out for him. nevertheless, many (if not most) restaurants appear to miss at least some of his visits. as for the other points you raise....the Times' restaurant critic appears to usually eat with groups....allowing him to try multiple courses without having to eat a lot of each. he also wrote an article on his workout regimen. but yes, he does appear to go at least three and sometimes as many as six times. remember that this doesn't necessarily always happen over a short period. a restaurant can be open for six months (or longer) before he reviews it....allowing him to stagger visits. as for smaller city restaurant critics in the U.S. some appear to only go once...others (such as Dennis Getto in Milwaukee) make a point of visiting each restaurant multiple times.

well, it would take one chef with a mastery of cuisines from throughout Europe and North Africa. that's a lot to ask for. someone with a deep knowledge of Italian food is going to do a lot better with the Jewish cooking of Rome than someone steeped in German-Jewish cooking.

because most of it is a subset of regional cuisines. i.e. see the justly famous Jewish cuisine of Rome...it is seen as a particular subset of the cooking of Lazio...

what's different about the NP places is that they're more than just creative or ambitious bistros or casual restaurants. David Chang is capable of producing four-star food. some of his dishes are. Bouley is obvious (and there are dishes on the BU menu that are every bit as ambitious and accomplished as across the street). Goldfarb is a four-star level pastry chef. that's what stands out about these places. they're executing food, in some respects, at the four-star level. that's simply not the case with many an ambitious informal restaurant or bar. different animal altogether.

That aspect of the place hasn't changed for 35 years. From everything else I read here, it's lost even its nostalgia appeal for when I visit the nabe where I lived for 20 years. It's a shame because I did like that garden area. But these days our $$ will go to Surya or AOC for the al fresco thing. ← its an entirely different restaurant now. and the food is significantly better... (the current chef, John DeLucie, isn't a no-name). the garden is gorgeous...albeit, amusingly enough, seating there is considered "Siberia" by WI prestige rankings..

what FG said. the thing is, most people eating lunch at Noodle Bar are ordering the cheaper "meal-in-a-bowl" dishes...he just happens to offer the full menu at well. like FG said, I imagine the logistics of offering the full menu at lunch at both places outweighs the demand (especially on weekdays in the EV....I think weekends might be a different proposition).

I love those artichokes but I agree they're not mind-blowing the way the brussel sprouts are. almost makes me wish for fall now. I am annoyed that the superb mackerel dish had a very short menu stint...apparently no one was ordering it.

Of course. but...she said a lot more than that....she said that Chang was "overrated" (which may be true!) based upon one item. I stand by my statement that no one has any business reaching that kind of conclusion off of only one menu item. dosconz had a meal. she did not. this thread didn't have to go on for pages. I don't see why it would have taken much to reach a general agreement that her statement was hyperbole.... btw, try it. edit: imagine that an ordinary poster posts on the Jean Georges thread tomorrow, "Jean Georges is overrated! I had an appetizer at Mercer Kitchen last night and it wasn't very good." One can point out the blatant error of this hypothetical poster without concluding one way or the other as to whether JG is "overrated"

I don't have a problem with any of these points per se....(I don't really see what the point is behind them....like I said, of course it didn't come from nothing...and complex phenomena almost never have monocausal explanations) but what stands out about the NP is that it has arisen commensurate with a general decline in interest in formal haute cuisine....at the same time that you have more highly trained chefs and more access to haute ingredients (at least in the U.S.) than ever before. given that, I think the NP was inevitable and will appear elsewhere as well. its a democratization of high-end food (although much more than that...it's very much about the globalization of cuisine as well)..and I think that's a good thing. I'm all for being able to get foie, sea urchin and caviar on a whim without having to make a reservation or wear a tie. (fwiw, I have a suspicion that the NP appeared in Tokyo a while ago)

well...for one thing...you can walk into Nougatine at dinner without a reservation and have one or two dishes at the bar without a tasting menu or prix fixe. but yeah, I always thought it was just the casual, less ambitious "tavern room" a la Gramercy Tavern. edit: but I completely second Perry Street as the more casual way to approach JG.

you went to Landmarc in the Time Warner Center...not the one in Tribeca. but yeah, its most notable for their wine program.

I've never heard that.