Nathan

You know, it's possible — just possible — that Mimi Sheraton is more up-to-date than you give her credit for. She's not exactly new at this.It's also possible — just possible — that the bloom is wearing off of David Chang's rose, and not every reaction to his work is going to be 100% rapturous. Ed Levine's post yesterday, though not about the food, is indicative of this trend. In her note to Eater, Sheraton indicated she was aware that Ssam Bar (like many restaurants) could be different at lunch. But her argument (and how can you disagree with it?) is that if a restaurant is open to paying customers, it is open to criticism if it's serving anything less than its "best." I'll bet Mimi Sheraton isn't the only person showing up at lunch expecting a purported two-star James Beard rising-star experience. Is every guest supposed to acquire a "history of the restaurant" before they visit? A concept whose very existence is, to date, accepted by only handful of people (and even that may be stretching it). ← I thought the lunch ssam weren't very good..and I said that way up this thread (when it first opened). if Sheraton went to Ssam Bar "at lunch expecting a purported two-star James Beard rising-star experience" then clearly I'm right that she doesn't know the history of Ssam Bar. lunch is intended to be an Asian-accented version of Chipotle or Qdoba. I agree that it doesn't work. so did the public. that's why the restaurant changed dramatically (except at lunch...it's not in a business lunch area where it would be economical to serve the real menu). although I want to agree with the sentiment that a restaurant should put forth its best at every meal....in reality, educated people don't go to the Wolfgang Puck's chain (modeled on Cheesecake Factory) expecting Spago. in a different context, Giorgio Armani licensed his name to the crap Armani Exchange line, but fashionistas don't confuse them with Armani Collezioni or even Emporio Armani. ditto for Donna Karan (retired anyway)...who sold her interest in her (relatively) cheap DKNY line a long time ago.

I don't think it was originally misdirection qua misdirection. he really did plan it as a fast food faux-burrito joint modeled on Qdoba/Chipotle. I think that side of the restaurant is perfectly attackable. It was a dumb idea. but he didn't change the name when he changed the concept. it doesn't help that "ssam" is a rather broad nomenclature in Korean cuisine. edit: to be fair to Ms. Sheraton, if you don't follow this stuff closely it's easy to make the mistake she did (as did Randall Lane). it also doesn't help that it's a "New Paradigm" restaurant. it's not like people are going around saying "Momofuku Ssam is amazing! but it's a fast food joint at lunch, we're not talking about that!" they're just saying the first part and assuming that people know the difference.

yeah, I read that. she's wrong, but it was an understandable mistake. she's obviously unfamiliar with the history of Momofuku Ssam. I don't find lunch very interesting...but some people like it. the ssam served at lunch (not traditional Korean ssam wrapped in lettuce, unlike some at dinner) is pretty boring. they also serve it at lunch at Momofuku Noodle (and have for years). the dinner which we all get excited about was originally not offered at all and then was offered only after 10:15 PM (I believe this was the plan all along). when commercial reality set in, Chang brought the dinner menu down to 6 PM. but, Momofuku Ssam bar was originally intended to be the progenitor of a faux-burrito chain. seriously. but dinner has nothing to do with that now. as for the ssam served at lunch...some people like it...they like at it Noodle Bar. but it's not the same people in the kitchen (by and large) and it really has nothing to do with the dinner menu. he's just offering wraps for lunch for people who want them. (I think what really misled Ms. Sheraton is the "Ssam" in the name of the restaurant) in sum, the basic retort to Ms. Sheraton is that there are two different restaurants at Ssam Bar, at lunch it is a fast food joint (in fact it was initially directly modeled on Qdoba/Chipotle -- right down to the ordering method), at dinner it is a serious restaurant. she went to the wrong one. yeah, maybe lunch should be better...but it's roughly (very roughly) analogous to confusing Bouchon Bakery with Per Se (yes, people have done so). heck, there seems to be a general consensus that Bar Masa isn't very good...but no one seems to take Masa to task for it. same thing. edit: part of the problem here is Chang's labeling. many people have complained about the ramen at Momofuku Noodle Bar not being authentic or especially great (it's pretty good though). of course, noodles aren't where the action on that menu is. I think Chang likes a little misdirection.

dude, Marco's Pyramids are really good...seriously! hmm...I haven't been in about a year...I think I need a visit soon to compare to the past.

I've been there before and after the award. no difference. its always crowded. frankly, a JB award isn't gonna make a difference for a restaurant...the set of people who follow the JB awards largely overlaps the set of people who already knew all about it and went there. I would imagine the single event that made the most difference was the Times review.

its essentially a legacy of Prohibition. the end of Prohibition essentially also ended federal regulation of alcohol. there has been some movement in this area thanks to a recent Supreme Court case dealing with wine distribution...but overall, every state has regulated alcohol independently of each other since Prohibition.

my final word on the subject is: hair and attire have always been identifying emblems for self-selected social and geographical groupings....especially 20 and 30 somethings. more to the point: frankly, Spice Market is about the last place that I would suggest for a sixtieth birthday party. is Asian fusion specifically desired for this birthday?

A better way of putting it is that SM has lost its foodie street cred. I'm sure most of the diners there are local...just not "foodie" local.A recent visit found the rice and seafood dishes better than the meat and poultry. The Thai Jewels were the single most memorable item we had. I've no idea how well the quality holds up from visit to visit. But my sense is that this is a restaurant that runs on cruise control, with no more than the occasional glance at the steering wheel by the man purportedly in charge. ← I don't want this topic to take up a life of its own...but I do live exactly two and a half blocks from Spice Market and walk past it daily. except for lunch, "locals" (as in Manhattan, not just the WV) aren't eating there. its street cred with non-foodie Manhattanites in its demographic is nil. there's a lot of big poorly-bleached blonde hair hanging out there though. its too bad, the space is beautiful.

Spice Market isn't really a place that locals eat much at anymore. from what I recall (I haven't been in a couple years)...its very inconsistent. the food could actually be pretty good and it could be pretty bad. considering it's now a tourist trap, it's hard to believe that it would have gotten better. the thing is, the same dish would vary significantly in quality from visit to visit....so I'm loath to recommend anything. I'm not a dessert person so I can't speak to that component of the menu.

I've got a feeling my grocery shopping is probably paradigmical for a NY'er in my demographic: Trader Joe's once every couple weeks. (substitute Fresh Direct for anyone who doesn't live close to TJ's) anywhere close to home for beer and cocktail ingredients. if I'm actually cooking for a dinner party or a date, then throw in D&D, Whole Foods, Balducci's and the greenmarket. I eat out or get delivery at the office 98% of the time.

I haven't had the sweetbreads there before.

yup, highly recommend the newly expanded list. the Red Baron has all of my favorite liquors in one drink (hmmm...I'm wondering what it would be like if I substituted Cynar for the Amaro...)

some of the new spring dishes are dazzling. highly recommend the fried artichokes with sardines with a walnut sauce. this dish simply works. especially if you ask for some lemon or lime to go with (the acidity completes it). the sweetbreads are superb (and I'm not a sweetbread guy). crawfish in a "Sichuan broth" were pretty good but probably not worth the effort. the new rice cake dish (with very juicy clams, bacon and ramps) is awesome.

yeah, but the fact that Platt can't get a whole segment of dining (i.e. anything that's delicate and not big trencherman cuts of offal) makes him worse than Bruni....and almost as bad as Lane.

fine...but I don't think Hiatt is a root of the Killers just like Patsy's is not a root of Mozza. "often" might be a better expression for cheeselessness in Italy. I don't know that it's measureable. very common in the north...mixed in the middle, not infrequent but not standard either in the south. I agree with your larger point that as restaurant reviewer for the New York Times Bruni should be familiar with Patsy's. I'm not sure that we're really in disagreement here...I just don't think that Patsy's is particularly relevant to an article on Mozza (Bianco, Spago and Otto are, I think, more specifically relevant). but I agree that familiarity with Patsy's is probably necessary for a well-versed professional food critic in NY.

But how can you assert anything "might be the best pizza in NY" if you admittedly haven't tried at least one consensus favorite (and I doubt you've been to DiFara or Coney Island Totonno's, either)? Of course, as oakapple said, you get a pass on stuff like that, where Bruni doesn't, because you're not a professional critic. But it helps even us dabblers to remember when we're not in a position to say anything too definitive. ← well, "might" is the key part. but anyway, I automatically disqualify any pizza that is sans meat.

that analogy works if you're asserting that Bruni is unfamiliar with pizza in Italy (something which I highly doubt). after all, pizza in Italy is usually cheese-less, sometimes tomato-less (though of course this varies widely by region and style). I don't see the argument that Patsy's is an antecedent for Mozza. Rather, both Mozza and Patsy's are nouveau versions of older Italian roots (ok, so Patsy's is older than Mozza, it's still new-fangled). are you asserting that a writer critiquing The Killers must also be conversant with John Hiatt? (I think everyone should be familiar with Hiatt...but that's a separate matter.)

I'd assert that the tarte flambee at the Bar Room at the Modern might be the best pizza in NY. but I'm not put out that Bruni didn't compare it in the Mozza review. (this might be my nomadic childhood asserting itself, I didn't grow up with any one type of pizza) edit: I completely agree that Bruni, as a paid reviewer, should be familiar with all of the major NY-style pizzas....I just find that a separate issue from the Mozza article.

I'm not going to get into the typology of Neopolitan pizza but I'll note that it's not just the non-pizza items that make Otto analogous...several of the pizzas at Mozza are versions of pizzas at Otto (the toppings are the same...its the dough and baking style that are different).. in other words, considering the vast array of foodstuffs that fall under the rubric of "pizza" (I know, I know, in NY there's only one kind)...(heck, tarte flambee counts under any definition that ignores its origins but merely looks at the product)...I fail to see why you have to sample one kind of pizza to write about another kind of pizza. (heck, in terms of quantity sold, Domino's and Pizza Hut might make the most popular NY pizza)... now if Mozza was purporting to sell a NY-style pizza (which it is not)...then Patsy's et al become very relevant. edit: I suppose there is a dichotomy here between Bruni's obligations as a local reviewer (the Times is a local newspaper) and as a national reviewer (the Times is a national newspaper). after all, the Times does swap out a lot of its local coverage in its national edition, but not the restaurant reviews (I realize this goes for other reviews as well...but significant theater, music and dance productions (as well as obviously books and movies) are of national and even historical significance).

ah..gotcha. of course, pizza in Liguria (what my friend was familiar with) is essentially focaccia with toppings. tomatoes aren't usually used.

I've got a feeling no one's ever going to take me seriously again...I've never been to any of those three. I will quote a friend of mine from Genoa when I introduced him to American pizza (at John's..that's considered decent, right?)...."this is very good but why do you call it "pizza"?"... If Bruni was to write a review or article on NY-style pizza (or presumably Neopolitan pizza in NY), then certainly he'd have to visit Patsy's to have any credibility on the matter. I don't see how it's relevant to Mozza or this Bianco place in Arizona (I think the Mozza article would have worked much better if he had also gone there). pizza styles vary just as widely in Italy as they do in the U.S. (and in my experience, if you didn't grow up on the east coast it's really hard to like the NY "plain" slice...kind of like bagels).

Otto used to have a gelato cart in Washington Square Park. they eventually stopped doing it...my understanding was that they never could achieve sufficient quality control on the cart temperature...

I'll rephrase: the high-end restaurants that source their gelato get it from Lab.

Bruni defends his article on Mozza here: http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/200...-more-on-mozza/

why is restaurant gelato excluded? heck most restaurant gelato in NY is sourced from Il Lab....