Nathan

"Your formulation seems like just a more rigorously analytical way of arriving at the same fundamental result." well, yeah. that's the point.

" Le Cirque's two stars, for instance, are relevant only when compared to other luxury restaurants. That is the only way that Le Cirque and Spicy & Tasty can both be two stars." I don't buy this. I don't see why a reviewer wouldn't have an unpublished (or even not explicitly worked out but nonetheless real) metric that assigns points for taste, creativity, service, ambience and price. I fail to see why a reviewer applying such a metric couldn't end up with Le Cirque and S&T at the same level. I know I could. (I think part of the disagreement is that some people here do not consider prices at all.)

I fail to see why that's a problem. Unlike some, I consider the quality of the food to be more important than the amenities (although I wouldn't go as far as Rich in that respect). And I daresay that the average NY Times food reader will assume that a restaurant with no stars has crappy food.

I'm sure you know this, but just in case it isn't obvious to all possible readers, I don't think anyone is arguing that a restaurant lacking "four-star amenities" should get four stars. The argument is that restaurants with excellent food should be able to get two stars, even if they lack amenities. ← Indeed. my exact formulation was: give them three stars for food. deduct two for amenities, add one for price. end up at two.

"When you think of the Ontario Milk Marketing Board's system of pooling milk from all the producers, there is no way of knowing where one's milk is actually coming from. I have driven by dairy farms in the country where they have a dairy operation alongside the corn fields, sprayed with pesticides. I do not believe the finished milk is tested for pesticides." As a scientific matter, it is highly unlikely that any pesticide residue would exist in milk....certainly not above trace amounts.

indeed, 10th ave is where all the galleries are. it's been that way for four or five years. Simon, I lived in NoLIta (east SoHo) until a couple months ago and now live in the WV. Post-dinner places to check out in NoLIta include: Room4Dessert on Lafayette and Kenmare, Epistrophy (a wine bar) on Mott between Kenmare and Spring, Pravda (vodka bar) on Lafayette just south of Houston. There are very few places I'd suggest in SoHo per se, besides Zinc on Houston and Thompson/Greene for Brazilian jazz and occasional fado performances and, of course, the best cocktail bar in NY -- the Pegu Club, on Houston and Wooster. In the WV I'd recommend Employees Only on Hudson and Christopher, the Spotted Pig (go late -- after one a.m. when it's less crowded) on 11th and Greenwich, and The Other Room on Perry and Washington. East of NoLIta, just across Bowery is the Lower East Side. Lots of night spots around here. Just wander around. Upstairs at the Stanton Social is fun -- Stanton and Orchard. Ditto for the bar at Thor -- Rivington and Orchard. Also the bar at Schiller's -- Norfolk and Rivington. Clubs in NY are another story. As a general rule, locals don't go to "clubbing" on the weekends -- those are left to tourists and the B&T. During the week is another story. Probably the best club to go to on the weekend is Cielo in the Meat-Packing district (which you should otherwise avoid at all costs on the weekend). However, it is very small and very difficult to get into if you are not known to them. Hope this helps.

real desserts. I'm going tomorrow. oops, I see that cchen already posted about this up the thread.

actually, just boost your ISO setting as high as possible. This will allow you to utilize a faster shutter speed. You'll have a lot of noise in the pics (especially with a P&S) but that's somewhat repairable in any good processing program (I could do it for you if you liked).

Diner's Journal has not been published in almost a year.

SoHo shopping generally sucks (for clothes, furniture and interior decoration is another story altogether). NoLIta on the other hand is the avante garde NY shopping mecca. here's a good summary of NY shopping today: http://newyork.splendora.com/sections/399/..._boutiques.html as you can see, NoLIta, the WV and the side streets of SoHo are the places. the problem with uptown shopping is that Floridians can find most of it in Bal Harbor....and Europeans can find it all in any decent sized Western European city.

it is. http://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/brunch.pdf

there are plenty of good brunches but "out of this world" limits things to about 3 choices. waiting in line at Prune or being packed into Deborah doesn't fit the bill

the best lunch deal in the city has arrived. for $24...pick two courses from a list of 8 or so. dessert is gratis. I'm taking my dad for lunch tomorrow. although I couldn't envision eating dinner this early...they also have a $35 prix fixe dinner from 5:30 to 6

Perry Street fits the bill. also consider 11 Madison Park. the food at Balthazar is not out of this world but it is a racous good time at brunch. the unlisted reservation number (which will get you in if you call up to a couple days before) is: (212) 303-7703

in the "first world" to some extent, true. but this appears to have been more of a means of flaunting wealth than different cuisines....i.e. one threw saffron in with one's boiled beef...but the dishes weren't dissimilar.

He's clearly talking about class-based distinctions in a national cuisine. As a general rule, that's true for most countries of any sort, at least until the 20th century. France being the notable exception. For example, in Italy, until the last 150 years or so, the difference between peasant food and that eaten by the aristocracy was in the cuts of meat used (or the prevalence of meat altogether). The fascinating array of offal in Roman cuisine comes from the fact that the Lazio region had two (usually separate) sets of aristocracy -- nobility and the Vatican -- with the result that "normal" cuts of meat were practically unavailable to everyone else. But otherwise, people ate the same dishes.

do you know if they mail order internationally?

the CB is fine in a mixed drink with 4 or more ingredients (i.e. it makes a poor Brandy Alexander but is fine in a Between the Sheets.) It also makes a pedestrian but acceptable Sidecar.

indeed. for other ideas: Zabb. for fancy hotel Thai: Kittichai. in a pinch, the best Thai in Manhattan is either Pam Real or Wondee Siam (I). Zabb has opened a branch in the East Village but I don't know if it's any good or not. mean to remedy this shortly.

the type of eating -- agreed. as a reference to chowhound.com TM -- not necessarily. it still exists in common parlance independent of the site and general media references to "chowhounds" are just that.

I am amused how everytime a mainstream restaurant critic uses the word "chowhounds" people on chowhound.com assume it's a hat tip to them. the word predates the web forum by 50 years. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chowhound and I don't think Bruni needs to peruse the web to find out about Sri or S&T.

hee. the problem with Shun Lee isn't the average age of the room. it's the fact that clearly everyone in the room hasn't eaten Chinese anywhere else in the last 50 years.

ah. I'm only conversant with the modern Shun Lee. I found myself very confused as to why I was paying these prices for corner takeout food. but then, I was also the youngest person in the room by 30 years. agree with oakapple's last post by the way.

true. I imagine that massively overpriced mediocre Cantonese with snooty waitstaff and suburban Greek-diner style plush decor is quite a bit different than Spicy and Tasty.

well, obviously, the star system survived.