daisy17

SOLID.

← This is just tragic. She must be stopped immediately. If Lesley Stahl's attitude doesn't jump out at you as problematic in that 60 Minutes interview then I don't know what to say. Without her preposterous commentary the piece would have left an entirely different impression of AW. I saw a woman who is wildly enthusiastic about food caring about what she eats and where it comes from and who she supports in buying it, and wanting to have kids understand that what they eat matters. Thank God someone does. Stahl mocked every move she made and I was disgusted by it. I also fail to see how this could possibly be all about oil (you don't mention the use of pesticides and the oil utilized there), but then again I walk to my farmer's market, so what the hell do I know.

It's possible to eat local and survive, or even eat very well, in plenty of places outside of California. There have been several good demonstrations of people eating well for a year, locally, in cold climates. I think I most recently read about a guy who did it in Vermont. The problem is that the guy in Vermont who eats locally for a year is not a usable model for feeding a nation or a planet. It's mathematically unlikely that everybody in a state with a significant population could, even if motivated, eat from that state's breadbasket. Even were it possible for a state like, for example, Illinois to produce all the food consumed in Chicago, there's no evidence saying that would be a desirable outcome. It would still probably be more energy efficient to produce a lot of it in California and Mexico and ship it in. And in a free society, people in New York have the right to order Rancho Gordo beans from California, which is good for them and for Rancho Gordo. What concerns me about Alice Waters's approach is that the logical end result is a tax that makes it so expensive to send Rancho Gordo beans from California to New York that few if any people will pursue that option. On top of all that, California's year-round supply of local food -- all that great stuff they serve at Chez Panisse -- is not quite a naturally occurring thing. California's need for water has created what many would call an environmental catastrophe. It might be more environmentally sound to grow food in the Northeast, where there's plenty of water, and send it by train to California than vice-versa. But we probably couldn't grow enough of it for California, no less ourselves, without converting every available bit of land into farmland and forcing half the population back into agriculture, and maybe not even then. ← This makes zero sense to me. Who is saying that Illinois has to produce all the food consumed in Chicago? Why is the argument that you can't *completely* eat locally? I have never seen the locavore movement as an all-or-nothing proposition and I don't understand why or how you need to reject it on that basis. Eating entirely locally may not be a "model for feeding a planet" (again, I fail to understand why that's the straw man you set up here), but supporting local farmers and sustainable growing practices sure as hell is better for our communities and our planet.

Astor and Union Square Wines carry it.

Nope, you got it all. Makes perfect sense. (Not understanding how a bunch of egulleters are the ones espousing these positions; kind of expected better.)

We all make choices about the food we're going to eat, every day. I prefer to pay more for eggs from chickens that weren't given antibiotics and raised in disgusting living conditions. Same goes for hormones in my meat, and I don't believe in supporting factory farming. Bottom line is that recession or not, for decades, people have been spending less and less of their income on food. They want it cheap, and as a result consume gallons of soda, eat packaged crap, and have dinner at McDonalds. There is a cost for that, namely 200 lb 10 year olds with type 2 diabetes. Even if you're not spending the money on organic, locally grown produce (and I'm not telling anyone they should), you can eat food that's more healthy than McDonalds. Again, this is not an all-or-nothing proposition. Waters' work (and her Foundation's work) on school lunch programs (and involving kids in the food growing process) is the exact opposite of an elitist message.

Whose beans does Jack's use?

Ruth Reichl's new book came out yesterday. Will be reading it shortly - her others are among my favorites.

I will happily chime in as someone who is not irritated or annoyed by Alice Waters. I love her quirkiness, her enthusiasm, her idealism, her legacy and her message. (Given how many people *do* annoy me, it is somewhat a miracle that Alice has escaped unscathed.) I can't think of anyone else who has done more to shape America's modern culinary direction than Alice Waters - other than possibly beloved Julia (I've had this debate; not having it again. ) She may be an idealist, but someone needs to be. I've never taken her idealism to mean that my doing some, but not all, of what she does or stands for, is second rate. Stereotype much? ← Stereotype? Huh? This is how our country eats. Thank you, Alice Waters, for trying to educate people and get kids enthusiastic about growing and eating real food!

I'd posted about Num Pang, I think it was on the Bahn Mi thread ... anyway, I had the veal meatball one again. It's really ridiculously delicious.

Since my first post I've also tried the Pequeno Cabeza, which i loved - blanco, grapefruit infused vermouth, amaro and maraschino. I wasn't paying attention to the details though - I don't even know what kind of amaro it was. Oh, the shame!

Of the cocktail bars, Pegu and Flatiron open the earliest at 5pm. Death & Co & PDT open at 6. It can be a problem, I know. I'd definitely go to Gramercy Tavern. Not sure what the bartender story is since Jim left, but I think you would probably do well, plus it's a beautiful spot. Gotham can be hit or miss depending on who's behind the bar (cocktails are also very expensive). Freeman's has some very strong talent behind the bar - not sure who would be working at that time - but they're also open for lunch (I don't think they serve straight through till dinner, so you might check).

I love Perilla - the chef/owner is Harold Dieterle, the winner of the first Top Chef. His food is unfussy & refined American, interesting but approachable. It's the kind of place I'm happy to go to any night of the week - I don't consider it among the *best* restaurants in the city, perhaps just below (don't get me wrong, I love the place). I haven't been to Perry St, but it's a Jean-Georges Vongerichten spot that many egulleters rave about, but you can find mentions of it on other threads. No idea what La Sirena is. I haven't heard Tribeca Grill mentioned in a food-focused conversation in at least 12 years. I'm sure you could get some good food there, but it doesn't belong, IMO, in a list of places I'd prepare for "enthusiastic foodies and wine collectors" in from out of town. Out of that list I'd do Perry St. or Perilla. WD-50 - YES. And if that kind of food interests them, Tailor. Aureole has a newish chef, Christopher Lee, whose food I've never eaten but who I know is well respected. He started there at the end of last year and I'm afraid to say that I haven't heard much about Aureole in a while. Perhaps others can chime in here - I think it's been mentioned in other threads, so perhaps you can search for it. Telepan is good. I enjoy it for its proximity to the opera, its focus on seasonal ingredients and its fairly reasonable price. There are better restaurants in the city, but I do enjoy it from time to time. Others on this forum disagree with me and don't like it. If you want local/seasonal/farm to table kind of food, Blue Hill is better. Alto's chef has changed since I've been there, but it's gotten good reviews, as has its sister restaurant Convivio, which has sounded less expensive to me. Based on what I've heard I'd be happy to try either. Aureole's website says its prix fixe is $84. If I were ok with that price range, I would very quickly instead go to Gramercy Tavern (really fantastic in every way) or Blue Hill, or the newly opened Corton which people are enjoying very much. For something less expensive I would go to Hearth. You might consider Eleven Madison which I think would be more expensive but many people LOVE (put me in the like a lot category, not love) - it's also a bit more formal feeling (the room is spectacular).

I had the pleasure of stopping by last night. Phil's menu is spectacular - tequila and mezcal are prominently featured in both shaken and stirred cocktails, along with a few punches, tea infusions, and beer cocktails. Tequila is taken to a whole new level here - if tequila still means "way too many shitty margaritas in Cancun on college spring break" to you, well, it's time to move on. You've come to the right place, and you're in very good hands. The space is small as weinoo pointed out, but it is a beaut - dark wood, Mexican tile, exposed beams, funky chandeliers. The upstairs is bathed in red light, the walls mostly brick with patches of old wallpaper, upholstered banquettes. This is one sexy room. You don't need to sit at the bar when you've got a room like this upstairs. (Well, I might, but if you go upstairs I can get a seat at the bar.) I had an Italian Inquisition (tequila, amaro, solerno, bitters) and a Watermelon Sugar (delicious spicy rim, has summer written all over it) and tasted a few others - all were terrific, well balanced cocktails. They'll also have an extensive food menu from what I understand - still being played with. Mayahuel opens early May.

me too.

This New York Times article on banh mi is timely - I had a phenomenal and inauthentic sandwich from Nam Pang this weekend (the hoisin veal - it was perfection). I live WAY too close to this place.

Balthazar does a flourless chocolate cake as well - it's not the E Village but it's close to the 6/N/R.

oh boy. TOTALLY AGREE. his attitude is disturbing, not the fact that he doesn't love food the way you do.

I enjoyed it - I wouldn't characterize Rose's questions as especially deep or insightful, but they didn't bother me either (I won't get started on Lesley Stahl's Alice Waters shitshow again, but suffice it to say I can get annoyed). In fact, I felt that he showed Adria a lot of respect - he seemed to understand the significance of Adria and El Bulli in the food world - I think many interviewers might have just made it sound nuts - and Rose appeared to be kind of awestruck. Adria's responses were interesting and fairly long, and the questions took a back seat for me.

Please. Tell me she's not awesome. Rachel Maddow makes cocktails for Jimmy Fallon

You are correct, it's not, and I'm not saying she shouldn't ask the tough questions. That's not what bothered me. There already is a compromise position, she just chose not to show it. Everything - her tone, questions, voice over commentary, and the editing - made the idea of eating well sound ridiculous. She left out a million things you might mention about slow food, sustainability, farmers, the environment and locavorism. Instead, she chirped "organic" a few dozen times, harped on Waters' lack of a microwave, and entirely mocked the notion that it might be a good thing to care about where our food comes from.

My fear is that the tone of the piece and making Waters' message look elitist isn't helping anyone. This is not an all-or-nothing proposition. It can't be. We all make choices about our food and what we want to spend money on. Michael Pollan talks in Omnivore's Dilemma about how we spend relatively less money on food than we ever did in the past. Cheap has become desirable, and all over America people spend their money on what weinoo describes above. Presenting eating well as slow cooking your eggs in a fireplace in your kitchen on a long handled spoon is just missing the point entirely. Yes, the message was completely lost. I blame that on Stahl and her producers. Cheers to Michelle Obama for bringing this issue front and center in just a few short months.

BryanZ speaks the truth. Just to be clear, Death & Co doesn't take reservations at all (and neither does Pegu), and PDT does for tables, but not for the bar. I say go early or late (but not late to Pegu, it becomes a vodka/soda mob scene), with one other person, and sit at the bar.

Commander's Palace? Huh? I never know what to do with lists like this.

I agree. J-G won me over at lunch.