daisy17

It's not Manhattan, but it's awesome: Blue Hill at Stone Barns. My brother got married there last summer, and it was glorious all around - setting, food, staff. It's expensive, but it was so fabulous that it deserves to be mentioned.

While these places don't carry many different vodkas, don't tend to serve flavored vodkas, and don't feature vodka cocktails, all of them do, in fact, have vodka behind the bar. And, more to the point, all of them will be perfectly happy to prepare you a vodka cocktail or a vodka soda or a vodka on the rocks with not an iota of attitude. I remember talking with Audrey about this back when we were talking about how she was going to stock Pegu Club, and she said that she would only carry two or three brands of vodka and no flavored vodka. "Why not just carry no vodka at all," I asked. And she replied that, while they weren't "about" vodka drinks (although one of her signature cocktails, the Dreamy Dorini Smoking Martini, is a vodka cocktail), if someone asked for a vodka on the rocks, they would have a good vodka and would endeavor to make them the best vodka on the rocks they could offer. At the end of the day, its about service. Interestingly, I have once upon a time in the wee hours of the morning, sat in a booth of Mlik & Honey with Audrey and Sasha, drinking Moscow Mules -- vodka drinks. ← Death & Co has a single vodka behind the bar, and I believe PDT has one as well. While I agree wholeheartedly that if that's what people want, they should be served it without attitude, my point is simply that vodka sodas are not the reason to go to these places. If that's what you order, you can go anywhere, you don't need Pegu, and you are missing a potentially new and thrilling experience. Look, when I went to Pegu for the first time I told Phil I liked vodka gimlets - because I had no idea what the possibilities were. Someone had to show me. If this article is for newcomers, it's not going to be obvious and I would mention it. That's all I'm saying.

I assure you that I wasn't suggesting that Steven literally write "you cannot order a vodka martini." I would think that in an article such as this he would naturally explore the variety of spirits that are used in cocktails, and explain why these bartenders don't work often with vodka.

If you're writing this for people who know nothing about cocktails, it's probably helpful to let them know that these places barely even have vodka, and if they're looking for vodka martinis, they're not going to be impressed. When I tell people about cocktail bars, I tell them to go with an open mind and try new things, even ones they think they hate (gin) or only thought old men drank (rye). Putting yourself in the bartender's hands is an essential part of the experience.

I think you should tell them not to order a vodka martini.

That's right, or "i'm in the mood for something new with the scarlet ibis." I don't expect that the cocktail is literally being invented right then and there, and that's not why I'm ordering that way. One night at D&Co we did riffs on the Last Word, and it highlighted so much for me. That to me is the joy of going off menu - it's how I learn. And of course some of us go to bars often enough that we have had every cocktail on the menu.

To expand a bit on Nathan's comments: Places like Bobo, Elettaria, etc. are places where you can go there on a certain night and avail yourself of a cocktailian heavy hitter (Naren at the former, Brian at the latter). ← I'm pretty sure Brian no longer has a relationship with Elettaria. ← That's right.

I agree with your last paragraph, but take issue with the "take the money and run" characterization. Acting as a consultant doesn't mean you have control over decisions that management makes, including how to keep standards high and train staff.

Good point. (Luckily one of them is the Benton's, my fave.) Similarly, the new D&Co menu has over 60 cocktails, and only a few of them are from the previous one.

I'm shaking my head at this (and kind of wondering why we're not having this discussion over rum old fashioneds) - it was just a mind-blowing amount of talent under one roof. So many top NY bartenders (now) were there (then).

I wouldn't say I've had "bad" times at Pegu, but I have found that it can be hard to go off menu depending on who the bartender is, which I think only illustrates lack of experience, not potential. It may also be unfair to compare today's Pegu to the dream team Audrey trained and opened with, most of whom are now at the other places we're talking about - PDT, Death & Co., and Sasha's bars. That was my first exposure to cocktails, and it was a pretty incredible group of bartenders.

Oh, I see - I misunderstood, but completely agree. Their individual styles come in a wide range. I love trying to figure out which bartender originated a cocktail. God, I am such a dork.

Love that. So true. Another thought - as far as cocktails at restaurant bars go, I do think that there is more variability based on who's there that night. Many of the bar staff at places like Bobo and Elettaria are (or were) excellent and can also be found behind the bar at the cocktail bars we're discussing, but that doesn't mean the entire bar staff is going to be of the same caliber, or that the restaurant is as concerned with consistency as much as a cocktail bar would be. Was talking about The Randolph last night at D&Co - I haven't been yet but am interested to hear people's thoughts on it since I don't think anyone's commented on it in a while.

For me, knowledge and creativity of the staff. I know I'm getting a perfectly made cocktail, whether it be a Corpse Reviver, something off the menu, or a new formula they're experimenting with. I agree that consistency is important, and for that reason alone I put Death & Co. and PDT at the very top of my list. I don't find them to be variable at all - every bartender at Death & Co. is amazing in his own right, and that goes for everyone who's made me a drink at PDT as well. For precisely the same reason, I don't go to Pegu as much anymore. Not all the bartenders I've met there can go off menu with confidence, and that's a lot of the fun of it for me. I personally don't care for Angel's Share for anything other than atmosphere (which means I haven't been in years).

Agree wholeheartedly. Haven't been to Little Branch lately but I'm sure I'd still put it next on that list. If you've had mixed experiences at D&Co I think you're just not going often enough! In all seriousness, there is an incredible amount of talent behind the bar there.

I'm finding it so odd that Nathan is asking for advice on where to eat.

You can (I had the beef at Daniel at the bar). I had to request silence from my dining partner for the first bite.

Wow - it's going to be quiet around here! Congratulations, Nathan. I am a huge, huge fan of Cru. The food is sublime - especially the pastas and meat dishes (he's all about sous vide). Go there. I also would go to EMP and Per Se (especially if you haven't been to PS or TFL before.). My only complaint about EMP is that you can't (or couldn't, when I tried) order off the full menu at the bar. Two of the places on your list, Oceana and Veritas, have newish chefs who I've heard good things about but haven't been since their tenure started. I'm curious enough about both that I'd go. At Veritas you can eat at the bar, bonus for you and your wallet. Other than that, I don't feel that Luger's, Picholine or Chanterelle (I've been to all) are musts. I go to Luger's often (my family loves it) and I don't think it's nearly as good as it once was. What I've eaten at Daniel was at the bar, and was phenomenal, but the dining room is seriously stuffy and formal, which is just not my thing. I go to Gotham pretty frequently, mainly for cocktails, but also at times for food at the bar. It's good, and I have high regard for it as a mainstay in the NY restaurant scene for over 20 years, but it's not really as interesting to me as some of the newer places, especially given the price point. If I had unlimited funds, I'd go to Masa. Quite unique.

I recall Dan Barber saying in the beginning that fish was going to be the hardest thing for them to source locally, and impossible for them to raise on their own. I don't think they've ever claimed to be working towards being 100% local.

The Lemon Ice King of Corona is one of my all-time faves.

but if he's going to be here for several weeks, Momo Noodle should definitely be on the list of regular meals. I firmly believe that if you want a great meal in NY at one of our best restaurants, but you don't want to spend a lot of $, lunch is the way to go.

Whether "advanced" or not, bar food is kind of essential in my book. I can't have more than a couple of cocktails without food if I want to be able to stand when I get off the bar stool. I've always been a fan of the food at Death & Co. The duck quesadillas have gotten me through many evenings. Haven't had anything off the new menu yet. My issue, which I was faced with just this Monday at PDT, is the lack of healthier options. Deep fried hotdogs and tater tots are indeed delicious, but not exactly what I should be eating on a night on which I skipped the gym AND had cocktails.

I'm not in the business, but have learned an enormous amount about cocktails in the past 3 years from my bartenders. I agree that sometimes people are just not open-minded. But in many cases I think that people just don't know what the possibilities are. I think back to my first visit to Pegu - you know, the one at which I declared unequivocally that I didn't like gin, and couldn't imagine who in their right mind would drink rye (I left that night a changed woman) - and I simply had no idea what could be done with cocktails. I think this is true for my friends too - one cocktail at D&Co or PDT and their eyes have been opened to the possibilities. One of the things I admire most about cocktailian bartenders like Phil is the passion they have for their craft, and their desire to pass it on. I learn something every time I'm at his bar, whether he intends it that way or not, and I'm drinking better because of it.

He would have been there for about a month, it was the end of May. No idea if he'd changed the menu by then. Would try it again now that I've read the review, but not if Frank hadn't said such glowing things.

We went there, right? I completely agree - it was fine, but not more than that. And we tried a lot of different dishes. I think it said the new chef has been there for 4 months, which would include that visit . . . Off night? We didn't order well? The review surprised me.