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While there have been some incredible stories on this thread about substitutions, none equal this mother of all substitutions: Honey Apple Cake Scroll until you find the one from "A Cook from Pttsbrg, PA on 06/14/04". Full disclosure: this link was originally posted on a thread a couple of years ago.

Do update us as soon as you can. I'd love to know what's in a foolproof recipe.

There's a Mexican restaurant in town, at which I used to order quesadillas. I got tired of having to deal with the wait staff when I was brought pale, limp, half-soggy tortillas with stuff inside them. They always made sure I understood I was being SUCH a pain in the ass when I asked for them browned and cooked crisp. And they once argued me that they served quesadillas the way they're "supposed" to be served. I argued back that just because they always came out pale and limp at this restaurant, doesn't mean that's they way they're "supposed" to be. The meal was pretty much ruined at that point, since both the waiter and I were both in bad moods at that point. But we do go back. They have several other dishes that are good, and they're one of the very few, anywhere-near-decent restaurants in our part of town. I figure I'll run into the owner one of these days, and I'll condescendingly ask if he'd like me to teach him to make quesadillas. That will be my payback and my satisfaction.

This week I made Alton Brown's tomato sauce. . .it starts out as fresh plum tomatoes, halved, seasoned, and baked for 2 1/2 hours, then put through a food mill, and finished off by being cooked with a little white wine. It's a really good sauce, even with out-of-season store bought tomatoes. After it came to temperature, it sat on a back burner on the "low" setting to keep warm. After cooking the spaghetti, I drained it in a colander, then put it back in the cooking pot. It was dry enough that I was concerned about it sticking together. So far, so good. After ladling it onto the pasta, however, I ended up with really good tomato stuff on top, and the pasta was swimming in red water. What's the deal? Is there any way to prevent this?

MissAmy, if something like this should happen again, write to me and I'll console you. I, too, am always 'losing it' and telling people what's on my mind . .and getting into trouble for it. It's interesting, however, how often someone will come up to me later and tell me they never would have had the courage to say what I said, but they're glad I did. The woman's behavior was selfish, rude, and a whole lot of other things. She ruined the dessert course for everybody, deliberately, after being cautioned not to do so. Christmas dinner is special. If it's just Thursday night at Dick and Jane's, who cares; toss the tart and have an apple or a bowl of ice cream. But at Christmas, that's different. You may be in trouble with your aunt, but you performed a service to humankind. You may well have stopped her from trying a stupid stunt like that again. Give me her phone number and I'll call her and bitch at her some more! Do you have to tell her what kind of wine to bring? I'd be scared she'd show up with Strawberry Hill or Boones Farm.

Although I'm a firm believer in giving out recipes when asked (having been the recipient of some dearly loved recipes from friends and family), it's frustrating when some idiot screws it up. A couple of years ago, I gave a white chicken chili recipe to the wife of one of the attorneys I work with. The recipe is designed to be low fat, but to receive flavor from a combination of garnishes, such as salsa, sour cream, Monterrey Jack cheese, and fresh cilantro. It was really irritating when the attorney complained that they'd tried the recipe, and found it unbearably bland. Long story short, they used no garnishes whatsoever. I just explained to him (trying not to grind my teeth) that the first time I try a new recipe, I make it exactly as written, since it's a waste of money to have it fail. That way, if something does go wrong, I can speak with the recipe provider and will likely be able to pinpoint exactly what I did wrong. (If he was reading between the lines, he understood that I was telling him it was his own fault for not following the recipe.) There will always be people who do stupid things with perfectly good recipes. Sometimes it's because they're unskilled and don't know better. Other times, it's because they enjoy being victims, and are most comfortable when they're able to focus on the terrible things others do to them. It's a really convenient way of not having to take responsibility for one's own life and destiny. And cooking.

I don't think it's clear what the Scotts did or did not know about this deal. It's one thing, to be told well ahead of time, that their wedding food will be prepared by professional and/or semiprofessional chefs in a Top Chef contest. My concern is that they may not have been aware of the time constraints and challenges presented to the contestants. If they were aware that there wasn't a pastry chef in the group, but the group would still be making the cake, then OK. Personally, that would not be acceptable to me. If they were made aware that given the circumstances, there were bound to be problems, and some of the contestants almost surely would not effectively rise to the occasion, then OK. If they were made aware of the possible pitfalls, challenges, etc., and they still elected to do it, then all's fair. I wonder if they fully understood the ramifications of the chefs having less than 24 hours to plan, shop, and cook. What makes me suspect that they were not aware of some very important details, is the fact that they agreed to it. I'm having a hard time accepting that they were told something like, "The results will problably be acceptable, but could be disastrous--or somewhere in between, and God only knows what you'll get for a cake", and they still agreed to it. I am simply assuming that if they really understood what they were getting into, they would not have agreed to it. I could certainly be wrong. They may have more of a sense of adventure than I do.

How exciting for you! Congratulations! Enjoy your little one. Have you thought about what you're going to feed him, once he's ready for 'real' food?

Does anyone know if the Scotts really paid for this reception or if it was given to them by Bravo in exchange for the reception being used for the TV show? I think it's highly unlikely they would have forked over $3,000 for a reality cooking show stunt. ← In my mind, it doesn't matter whether they paid for it... or were paid to do it. This was an important day in the Scotts' lives, and Colicchio et al created a nearly impossible challenge, and then stood back and watched. It's the old golden rule thing. I wouldn't want this done to me if it were my wedding/commitment day. We will probably never know, but my personal bet is that Bravo did NOT tell the Scotts the truth about what was going on, including the possibility/probability of a major disaster. Neither of these guys looked stupid enough to risk so much, if they had known what the deal really was, and the potential pitfalls. Remember the pseudo-restaurant challenge? I didn't have a problem with that, because those weren't "real" customers. They were people who were coming to a made-up deal, knowing what they were getting into. The only thing that would redeem this episode, integrity-wise, would be for us to learn that Scott, Scott, and all of their guests were actors paid to play the part, and that it was a staged wedding reception. Absent that, shame on all who were involved, except the chefs, who were victims. Assuming the whole thing was real, how would you feel if you were one of the chef contestants, and something disastrous happened, and you wrecked a very special day for some people? The whole thing... just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. (Pun intended.) Colicchio, what's-her-name, and the producers need to pack their knives and go home.

I agree about this particular challenge. It really sucked. When I realized the chefs were going to be up all night, it made my stomach hurt. I wonder if the Scotts knew the ingredients were coming from the grocery store, and would not be of a quality they could expect if they went to a "real" caterer/wedding planner. I wonder if they knew their chefs were going to be given a nearly impossible task, that was set up to create challenges that other caterers would not have --and that the situation was almost guaranteed to create a less-than-desirable result. I feel like they were taken advantage of, on what should have been a very special day for them. Shame on Colicchio et al. I doubt Colicchio would try to serve his customers in this manner. So why did he participate in such a fiasco now? It lacks professionalism. I've lost some respect for the man. A customer is a customer, whether they're in a four-star restaurant, or participating in what's supposed to be a fun TV show. This ain't reality TV. It's fiasco TV.

You are mean. Mean , mean , mean . Where's the recipe, already? That looks sooooooooo good. I have a wonderful date cake recipe I could post in exchange... I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours!

Okay, so it's nine days later. Has this child chosen to grace this planet with his/her presence yet? And if so, how are mother and child? If not, I will ask no questions. If you're still pregnant at this point, you're probably quite weary of people inquiring about your current state of mind and body. Warm thoughts are with you.

Do cake doughnuts qualify as cake? Oh, dear. More complications.

I like Dave a lot, too, but until he acquires more well-deserved confidence in himself, he's not going to have the ability to lead a kitchen. He showed us that he is definitely competent and experienced. To earn the Top Chef title, though, he needs a thicker skin. And I did see him rubbing his eyes a couple of times. . .

Would one's preference for using sugar or not, be influenced by the type of greens that will be dressed? I think sugar in a dressing for iceberg lettuce would be a different matter than for a dressing for arugula, raddichio, or frisee. In other words, I think it's all about the combinations. It might even also be influenced by other items on the menu. It's interesting that Julia called it heresy. But I'm currently reading some old James Beard stuff, and he makes some pronouncements that are definitely not in line with modern thinking about cooking. I've been making margin notes; I've thought about compiling them and starting a thread about them. But more reading to do, first.

I'm still sticking with pie. HOWEVER... When writing my first reply, I neglected to consider the many compelling qualities of a truly great piece of cake. Problem is, I've had very few of those in my life. One of them, interestingly, was a walnut cake that would occasionally show up in the cafeteria of a hospital where I used to work. It was an amazing, amazing piece of work, but probably more so in my memory than in reality. Still, I dream about cake; I crave pie. After my next cholesterol test, I will embark upon a thorough exploration of the possibilities of both cake and pie. Damn doctor, anyway. Who said I wanted to live to be 80, anyway?

The guy just seems to live in his own world. I don't know what's really going on in his head, but he comes across as if he thinks he's too advanced and special to be doing the mundane work the other chefs are doing, so he's going to create his own purposes. He's got lots of talent, but he's gotta get some perspective on his place in the universe, and learn how to channel it constructively. Personally, I don't think he will. I look for him to keep hitting brick walls until he gives up on the industry --and of course it will be anybody's fault but his-- and jumps to a new career field. I don't think Harold will end up being Top Chef, either. Harold seems to be a good "number 2" guy --the one who works diligently and holds the place together when number 1 can't be around. I'd love to see him acquire more leadership qualities. But the world needs guys like him, and I think he'll always have a place in the kitchen. He's got all of the qualities of a good Boy Scout, which isn't glamorous, but it will make him a valuable employee, and overall, a success in life. I still think Dave needs a good shrink. There's good stuff in there if someone can help him unlock it.

That does it. I can't stand it! This weekend I am going to make my husband take me to the Amish restaurant about 30 miles away, so that I can have a slice of pie and not have to resort to making one. Not that I mind, but my thighs don't need a whole pie. Okay, maybe I'll have a slice on Saturday night and bring home a slice for Sunday. That way I can have chocolate and coconut cream. I could get a third piece and take it in my lunch on Monday. That way, I could add lemon. It would be kinda iffy by then, but still edible. This thread is making me crazy! And hungry.

Pie, definitely, but it has to be made from scratch. Otherwise it's not worth the calories. No pudding mixes allowed, nor any canned pie fillings. Yeech. However: I can't believe you'd be so mean and rotten as to post a description like this and not offer us the recipe. Caramel is like heroin to me. I have to have it, and even if this cake is a pain in the ass, I want to give it a try. Please post the recipe; I'm going to whine incessantly until you do!

That's why I was thinking about vacuum packing them and doing a sous vide kind of thing, only using boiling water instead of a lower temperature. As soon as the garden herbs are ready, I'll try a few different things. The herbs from the grocery are too expensive to experiment with!

What was your family food culture when you were growing up? Strictly middle class. Some things, like pies, were always made from scratch. Mom insisted on "real" butter; Dad ate margarine. Mom gave up on making rice, so we used Minute Rice. Vegetables were canned, except for the iceberg lettuce salad, on which bottled dressing was poured. The emphasis was on having 'wholesome' meals for the least amount of money possible. My mother's cooking was considered to be better than that of most of my friends' mothers. But there were definitely some cheapskate elements; it wasn't uncommon to buy the kind of steaks that are used for chicken fried steak, and simply brown it with salt and pepper on it. Pure cardboard! My favorite dinner was sausage patties, hash browns, and fried apples. Or maybe it was weiners that were split open, and strips of Velveeta cheese tucked into the pockets, with a strip of bacon attached with toothpicks, to cover up the pocket. This concoction was broiled until the bacon was cooked and the cheese was melted, and was not served in buns. We probably ate green beans with it. Was meal time important? Pretty much. My father worked rotating shifts, so he wasn't always there. But we still ate at the table, even if he wasn't. Eating from trays in front of the television was extremely rare. Was cooking important? Yes, but "cooking" could mean making hot dogs or heating up a can of Chicken Noodle Soup. It could also mean a half-day marathon of making spaghetti sauce from scratch. What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table? We were calmly reminded to mind our manners. I remember when my sister's friend got into a huge fight with her mom because she used her fingers instead of her bread to push her mashed potatoes onto her fork; we thought her mother was downright bizarre. No, one doesn't do that, but one also doesn't get hysterical over a minor infraction. Who cooked in the family? Usually my mother. Dad would make pancakes, or would reheat leftovers, but the actual cooking was done by my mother. Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions? Strictly for special occasions. And we ordered the most inexpensive things on the menu. Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over? Only at relatives' houses. We rarely entertained. I loved the "kiddy table" at my grandmother's; we got to put as much sugar in our iced tea as we wanted, and no adults were there to stop us. When did you get that first sip of wine? Probably at home, around age 10. Whenever my dad had a beer, I was allowed a couple of sips. Was there a pre-meal prayer? No. Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)? No, but Mom tended to have a repertoire of just a few dishes, and I grew bored and disgusted. I still can't even think about eating pepper steak. How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life? Less and less. I'm making more and more things from scratch, in fact, pretty much everything; my parents continue to use boxed and canned items. We lived in an isolated part of the country, so as indicated above, vegetables were canned. I use mainly fresh vegetables now. But to this day, I blow a gasket (internally) when friends routinely allow their children to eat meals in front of the television, even though I would never say anything out loud.

Contestants don't have to be hyper, but they do have to display a pretty good amount of energy and presence, which Andy didn't do well. The unfortunate thing about it, is that those things are learned skills, and he could be coached successfully if he wanted to do it bad enough. I didn't see direct evidence of it, but I suspect he was just really uncomfortable (and maybe just flat scared to death) in front of the camera. That, too, can be overcome. What we fail to realize about this program, about Top Chef, and the various other cooking programs on the various commercial networks, is that the primary purpose of these shows is not about cooking; it's to provide a vehicle for selling advertising. To do that, the show needs to establish a desired demographic, so that the network can pitch the concept to specific advertisers. (Think about the difference between, say, a commercial for Celebrex and one for Pampers. Two different audiences.) That decision governs all kinds of decisions about details that come later; one hopes it doesn't heavily influence content, such as making lots of dishes with tuna if one of your advertisers is the Tuna Consortium (hypothetical name). The actual cooking, and decisions about methods, ingredients, etc., is geared to the all-important demographic. A show geared toward young mothers is not going to use truffles. Obviously, to sell the show, the host must have credibility, and also must appeal to the intended audience. Andy had the credibility, and he had quite a bit of appeal in some ways. But he displayed a really low energy level at times, and that had to be a concern of the judges --especially with somebody like Guy around.

EllenC, would you be interested in sharing your Peach Melba Jam recipe? Man, that sounds good!

Bumping this back up, with yet another question: I found a website where a guy is selling compound butters; it looked like his customers are probably restaurants. He says that he blanches all of his herbs for 2 minutes in boiling water, to kill any bacteria, before mixing them into the butter. Is this necessary? Seems to me like it would release some of the oils in the leaves and dilute the flavor of the herbs. If it is a good idea, how about doing this sous vide, so as to preserve as much flavor as possible?

I think your first consideration is which type of fuel you want to use. I've heard opinions both ways, but many people feel they get better flavor from burning charcoal. If you're thinking about propane, keep in mind that you need to keep the grill well away from the house. A full tank of propane, I've been told, is the equivalent of a couple of sticks of dynamite. Every year in our community, we lose some very nice houses because propane tanks exploded. So far, no loss of life, fortunately. Whichever type you purchase, make sure you have an appropriate fire extinguisher nearby at all times. Even if you are extremely competent, grills can always malfunction. Also, a lot of grilling is done by having a heat source on one half of the grill, and placing the food on the other half, with a drip pan underneath. You may want to make sure the grill you get is large enough for that. Don't forget to avail yourself of the different kinds of wood chips on the market, and experiment with the lovely flavors they can contribute!