Holly Moore

They got rid of that rule when "diners" added ferns, faux stone fronts, salad bars and cocktail lounges.

So how many eGulleteer's does it take to give accurate directions? Three and then it's time to look it up on MapQuest

Welcome to Philly, John. Pat and Geno's are at the southern tip of Philadelphia's Italian Market. I've you've got the time hike the four or so blocks up and back. Lots of fascinating places, and two must-stops. The first is Sonny D'Angelo's butcher shop. One of his specialties is sausages. He occasionally does wieners, but I think you'll get a kick whatever assortment he has on hand that day. Across the street from Sonny's is George's Sandwich Shop. This is one of the places featured on "Sandwiches That You Will Like." I wouldn't get a cheese steak there, but the bbq pork is totally traditional, as is the tripe if you have the "stomach" for it. Let me know when you're going to be in town. Would be great to finally meet.

A bit of trivia. Elsworth Milton Statler of the long gone Statler Hotel Chain was the first to coin the phrase.

Any state fair and especially the Iowa State Fair. And especially, especially the Bloomsburg State Fair, late summer in Bloomsburg PA Also Mid-June the Blueridge BBQ Festival in Tyron in Western N.C. and the St. Mary's Oyster Festival in Leonardtown on the southern tip of Maryland. Fairs

Having walked in them restaurant owning shoes - a few comments on some of the assumptions in this thread. Attorney: I only used an attorney twice: once to incorporate me when I opened and once to prepare the articles of sale when I sold. Taxes: In Philadelphia, at least, paying taxes doesn't mean you're making money. In a mockery of the language Philadelphia has a two pronged "Business Privledge" tax. Both gross sales and net profits are taxed. That way if you're not making a profit, Philadelphia can still get its share, no matter how much it hurts the small business. Friends: Never had friends get pissed off because I charged them (they knew me pretty well ), but the demands of the business did keep me away from them. One of the plus points to selling the restaurant was getting to spend time with friends other than employees and customers. Losing Money: Knee jerk common wisdom - "restaurants mostly fail." Yet look at all the restaurants out there. Someone's making a living. The odds of a new restaurant making it are against you. But most that fail are probably opened by those who 1) don't really understand the nuts, bolts and dollars aspects of the business and 2) those who go in undercapitalized and 3) those who do both. Learn on someone else's buck and make sure you have enough money in the bank to live on for a couple of years even if you aren't pulling anything out of your business. Also enough money to pay all expenses for 6 months. "Don't Do It:" Fortunately, if you truly have the passion, you'll ignore this advice. And if you don't have the passion, you'll hear it loud and clear.

The Hot Dog Show was probably the biggest inspiration to get me started on my website.

When you said Salad Alley, my first though was of their soups and breads. The two are remember were on the 1700 block of Sansom, perhaps where the crepe place now is, and within the old Urban Outfitters location in University City - on Locust between 40th and 41st

Finally a new member who understands the proper content for one's first post. Kissing up to one of the forum hosts. Welcome Tom. I didn't start the thread for that reason, but actually I too miss the place. I'll dig up the recipe for "Holly Moore's World Famous Chili Con Queso" and post it to recipe gullet.

The original Frög was one of the keystones in Philadelphia's Restaurant Renaissance - Steven Poses's first restaurant. Wrong block. I meant to say the 1500. Just next to the Versaille Apartment building and, incidently, Can Do! Copies and Signs It's a law firm - I think the state's boxing commissioner is the principal there. Steven made a tremendous investment renovating the place and stood no real chance of recouping. Lasted just a few years at that location.

Was that the place where the prep people were walled off with just a small pass through at waist level. You placed your order and then moved down the line to the register? Same block, the original Onasis. Good basic greek food and totally authentic including the dancing and broken plates.

Didn't Frög precede the Commissary by a couple of years. The old Frög, that is. The one in the building that is now Monk's. A few years later Steven Poses upscaled the new Frög and moved it to the 1600 block of Locust in what is now a law firm. I prefered the old Frög. Poses did this with the Commissary too. Expanded it, doubling/tripling its size. Adding a market. Like the old Frög, the old Commissary was best. Wasn't broke. Didn't need no fixin'. Then again, I wasn't paying the staffing (labor) costs.

Strolli's, perhaps? Dine like a king for $5.95. Chianti in cafeteria glasses.

It's a common discussion across the dinner table. Philadelphia restaurants long gone and greatly missed. My top-of-mind most-missed five: 1. The Commissary - in its orginal configuration. Steve Poses's gourmet cafeteria. Especially for breakfast. Fresh baked croissants and brioche. Custom made omelets whipped up at a special bar in the dining area. Fresh squeezed orange, grapefruit and other juices. Assertive coffee - a blend of Columbian and french roast. And the carrot cake, still available from Frog Commissary caterers. 2. Levis' - an old time hot dog emporium on 6th, just off of South. Featured the oldest working soda fountain. Along with hot dogs, famous for its Champ Cherry soda and fish cakes smashed on top of hot dogs. Bought by a corporation who didn't understand what made Levis' special. 3. Charlie's Waterwheel - seven or eight steps down, on the 1600 block of Sansom. Hoagies and cheesesteaks. Charlie, always smiling and knowing most every customer by name. Packing the orders and throwing in some extra baby hershey bars if he liked you. Heaping plates of free meatballs on the counter. Usually left the place full of meatballs and ate my hoagie later. Charlie had dreams of turning the floor above him into a Romanian restaurant but could never make it happen. It was here I encountered one of the strangest restaurant sights ever. Charlie invited me back into the kitchen to meet his father. His father was in the corner of the kitchen, separated by a folding screen, in a hospital bed connected to Oxygen. No other options for Charlie. Business had severely died off with the opening of the food court at Libery Place and he couldn't afford home care. 4. Taylor's Country Store - three funky stories of hodge podge ruled over by gruff but loveable Charlie Taylor - akin to the soup Nazi when you were ordering, but a solid friend once you hacked your way through his grouchy exterior. His wife, Anita, with a personality the opposite of Charlie's, making the sandwiches. A piano in the window, at the keys an attorney playing for his lunch. Home baked bread. Chicken salad with grapes. 5. Hog Island Hoagies - only lasted a year or so, but took a historical approah to hoagies. Hollowed out round loaves of Italian bread and filled them with a chopped up and tossed together antipasto of haogie fixin's. Supposedly how the wives of the Hog's Island shipbuilders made them for their husbands (called Hoggies) to haul to work. One history of the Hoagie attributies the name to the evolution of the term "Hoggie."

I have found Certified Black Angus beef - specifically rib eye steaks from Philadelphia Chef's Market from, I am pretty sure, Well's Meats - to be consistantly good, and occasionally exceptional. Ussingers uses Certified Black Angus for their premium franks. Part gimmick, perhaps, but an outstanding hot dog.

Welcome to eGullet Undercooked? How did you order it. I've had it two times; both arrived as ordered, a perfect medium rare. As to the roquefort, did you order a basic burger or the Good Dog Burger? It is the Good Dog that has plenty of roquefort in it.

Some details on coddie, please?

I'm not sure I agree that "Eats" can not be fine dining. But crab cakes you should have. And they should come from Faidley's in Baltimore's Lexington market. The gold standard for crab cakes. Problem is Faidley's closes at 5 PM, 5:30 PM on weekends. They open at 9 AM though, and there is absoluting nothing wrong with crab cakes for breakfast.

I like it for a couple of reasons. 1) The history. There is actually a reason that the fries and slaw go on the sandwiches. As they sing in "Fidler on the Roof" - "Tradition!!!" 2.) The incremental grease.

"Stuff" - about their roquefort stuffed burgers. Good one, Herb

Funny that the Health Department should be the source of info on Oki-Dog. A neat LA eatery. It has been a few years, but as I remember it, the name-sake Oki-Dog is a hot dog, along with corned beef, cheese, chili and onion, wrapped in a flour tortilla. Two fisted eating and then some.

You're talking about Primanti Brothers in Pittsburgh's Strip district The Strip is Pittsburgh's food distribution center. Primanti Brothers started making the sandwiches this way for the guys driving fork lifts. That way they could eat their sandwiches along with their side of fries, all with one hand while driving their fork lifts and picking orders.

Our local Chicken Delight (from Denville NJ as I recall) also did ribs. But the highlight for me was the big plastic chicken squatting on the roof of the delivery vehicle.

Biscuits and Rich Man's Gravy - sausage milk gravy with big chunks of sausage. Even better, Jack McDavid's version of ham and red eye gravy. He mixes country ham and coffee into the milk gravy. Huevos Rancheros con Chorizo. Corned beef hash with poached eggs. Rare prime rib topped with fried eggs. Not necessarily all at one sitting.

My waterloo was back in my advertising agency days. I was account supervisor on the Gino's hamburger account and had been pitched to the client as an all around food expert. We were filming some commercials in LA and were having lunch at a trendy restaurant. A test-the-limits-of-the-expense-account kind of place. Beautiful outside dining terrace. People were looking at me, the certified gourmet, to order first. And I did. The salad nicoise, which I'd never had before, struck my fancy. Unfortunately. I ordered it - pronouncing "coise" to rhyme with noise. Even my explanation that I was using an ancient French dialect didn't stop the laughter. The creative director at the time still seems to remember it whenever we get together.