Tonyfinch

Was gorgeous brad one of the waiters?

I think GENERALLY that is true. But when you go to a top restaurant you are looking for a different order of experience.It is an occasion,an event(well it is for me) and I'm looking for a memorable evening in its entirety which is obviously mainly about,but not ONLY about,great food. The very best restaurants make everybody feel special and valued. They set standards which from the moment you walk in until the moment you leave are designed to enrich you and uplift you in a way that truly great books,movies,music etc. can. I don't care if you have been told in advance that the table will be required again.To me being told that you must leave after 2 hours is a notion that in my opinion flies in the face of giving the customer a whole evening to remember and to cherish. GR is heavily booked so obviously people don't mind,but I think its a shame and a lowering of the standards set by restaurants such as Le Gavroche and La Tante Claire,to name but two in London.

Gordon Ramsey has set seating times You cannot book for,say 8 or 8.30pm. I'm told the times for dinner are 6.45 or 9pm. IMHO it is NOT acceptable for restaurants at this level of expense to demand the table back after a couple of hours or to refuse to allow you to eat at the time you wish. I'm amazed that people seem so sanguine about it. Maybe I'm too old fashioned but in all the top restaurants I've been to both here and abroad,unhurried leisure at table was both expected and encouraged by the restaurant. Now here's everybody queueing up to eat in a restaurant which not only bullies the staff but bullies the customer as well. What IS the matter with you all?

You should be aware that at Gordon Ramsey you will be told what time you will be allowed to eat and,if its the early sitting,what time you must finish. You should also know that Gordon Ramsey,by playing the Marco Pierre White card of tortured,misunderstood perfectionist,has succeded in coming across as an abusive loudmouthed bully. Give GR a miss. Go to Le Gavroche or La Tante Claire instead.

This is the great plus point of the British pub.You go to the bar and pay for your drink on the spot.You are then free to sit there for hours on end and there are no wait staff to chivvy you along,ask if you want another etc.etc.You do not have to interact with the establishment at all unless and until you go to the bar for another drink.People prepared to spend fortunes may enter and leave because there is no space but it won't enter anyone's mind to ask to hurry up to make way for them.

In this instance maybe,but not always.Our good friend Cabrales told us on another thread that she was so disappointed by her meal in one London restaurant that she immediately upped herself and went to another. John, just to be clear,are you saying that if a critic or anyone else loathed a restaurant that was generally considered to be excellent then that loathing would have to spring from either one awful experience or irrational reasons which are of no general interest?

Steve,sorry to be personal for a moment but how many 13 year old sons do you have?

LML-at last the secret of your loathing of all things Blumenthal (or have I missed it before?). I must say,however,that your companion's response to the intrusion smacks of "why don't you get back below stairs where you belong" And why would you go to a restaurant like The Fat Duck and NOT be "the slightest bit interested" in how the food was prepared? On the other hand,chefs who impose themselves unasked on punters do run the risk of being rebuffed from time to time and should be prepared for it.To ask you to leave because of it sounds childish.

John,I did not mean the response to be rude.But to say that I love L'Astrance and loathe Stringfellows is like saying I love Beethoven and loathe Britney Spears.The two are so far apart that the comparison has no meaning.If you say I love L'Astrance and loathe Le Gavroche then we can have a meaningful discussion as to why. Andy,I am trying to make a distinction between really liking a place and being a "fan" of it.In your Fay Maschler quote she tells us she likes and admires Richard Corrigan. But why? Because he's wild? Because he's Irish? Because he's wild AND Irish?( all irrational and illogical fandom) or is it because he cooks damn food and his restaurant is a pleasure to visit regardless of his wild Irishness(a rational and logical basis for a review). Of course criticism is all about liked and dislikes but there IS a distinction between the rational and irrational and the professional critic should know where that lies.

There was an article the other week in the paper regarding Dog Cuisine in Korea,what with the upcoming World Cup and so on. Dog Cuisine (Tang) is now banned but thrives everywhere on the black market. The article interviewed the most well known Tang chef in Korea. When it was put to him that Westerners dont eat Tang because we think dogs are cute,loyal, funny etc.he replied "Dogs are none of these things.They only PRETEND to be like this to try to convince people not to eat them" Now THERE'S a culture clash for you.

A woman.....just knows.

This is a meaningless comparison. Have you been to Stringfellows? A more interesting comparison might be to say " I love Le Gavroche and I loathe La Tante Claire" My question is: Why should restaurants have fans? Is a reviewer who is a "fan" a valid reviewer if he has reasons to be a fan ?

What I'm trying to get at is why should we feel passionately about restaurants in the way we might about football teams? DO people feel passionately,either way,about restaurants? If so,why? Are there people out there walking about thinking:"You know what? I love Michel Roux but I hate Pierre Koffmann" Or "I love Pierre Gagnaire but feel passionately indifferent to Alain Ducasse"?

Andy,why would anyone "hate" a restaurant in the same way that they might hate a particular band's music? Can you think of a restaurant that other people "love" that you "hate"? Or vice versa? Can anyone? I'm talking about HATE here. Part of being a Spurs fan is to hate Arsenal,but supporting a football team is an irrational and illogical act (what or who,exactly,are you 'supporting' ?) and a football critic who allows his support for one team to colour all his criticisms is a worthless critic of the wider game. If you hate the food in a particular restaurant,why should others love it? Is it to do with the particular type of cuisine ("I love Syrian food." "Well I hate it")? Or is it to do with differentiated tastes within cuisines? I feel passionately that I won't eat in a Gordon Ramsey establishment because I make a personal choice not to eat in restaurants run by chefs who seek publicity through bullying,abusive behaviour. This is a personal decision and any critic or reviewer who decides their likes or dislikes on criteria based on anything other than the food ,service,ambience etc. MUST declare their biases or their reviews become worthless.

I second Embassy I live literally 20 yards from Wapping Food and have therefore eaten there several times.I have to say this is more out of convenience than anything else. The setting is amusing and the all Aussie wine list is interesting.The food,however can be very hit and miss and is quite expensive for the standard provided.The worst part of it though is that you may be told to shut up for a hefty part of your meal in order to defer to some awful "performance art" which the cooperative who run the arty side of the place clearly deem more important than good food,wine and conversation. On one occasion some twat blew into various tubas FOR 50 MINS.,making a f..k of a racket while we all sat embarrassed silence.Even the waiters were embarrassed.If you go there phone to check you won't have to put up with this sort of thing.

I meant to add-Simon,the food sounds great but those wine prices.....wheeew. £10 for a glass of acidic Pinot Gris!!!!. I also think charging £12 for a less than exemplary cheese course is way OTT.

Actually,Babe Ruth's in Wapping served excerable food but did make a more than decent frozen Margerita. I use the past tense because I noticed on my way home from holiday that it has closed and the building put up for auction.I also noticed that Les Trois Garcons in Bethnal Green is no more,unless I was looking at the wrong building.Did anybody eat there? It received terrible reviews.

I believe Monty Modlyn's still alive as well.But Arthur Mullard is definitely dead.Does anyone remember Charlie Drake knocking himself unconscious live on TV by diving through a bookcase at the end of his show.........Ah they don't make 'em like that anymore

All these years and now I find out that Alistair Cooke has deviations. Another illusion bites the dust.

Thanks to all for some brilliant suggestions

I'd like to correct Mr. Cooke on the "simple" bit.Bourdain's cooking may have been rooted in classical French cuisine but he made it all his own and it was elaborate and involved.I ate there once about 10 years ago and I remember not being able to tell what any dish was about from its menu title and the food,while delicious,being heavily designed and "worked".

I found the OS chop at St.John very salty.So much so it was difficult to finish and I was forced to order another bottle to wash it down. I was expecting some kind of a gourmet pork chop but it was more akin to a smoked bacon chop and,it being St.John,there was no sauce to moderate or modulate the intensity.

I've also eaten there twice and while the food is as Cabrales describes I don't think its too bad at the price.However it is so noisy and crowded that I just don't find it relaxing and these days I would rather pay a bit more for a more relaxed and restrained atmosphere rather than shout to make myself heard by someone sitting three feet away from me.

You miss the point Michael.99.99% of restaurant goers couldn't give a monkeys stuff whether Blumenthal invented the dishes or not,or whether he takes the credit for doing so or not. Blumenthal takes credit for MAKING IT AVAILABLE in Britain,for enabling more people to AVAIL THEMSELVES OF IT,should they wish. Even those of us with money to spend in expensive restaurants don't want to have to make a pilgrimage to bloody Spain if we feel like eating "cutting edge" food. Going to Bray is quite far enough for me thank you.If this means I'm only eating a rendition of the original,well I can console myself with the fact that I saved on the plane fare and I'm grateful that someone decided to spread the word in a town not too far from where I live.If he wants to claim that he INVENTED the word,then to quote Jay Rayner "like do I care"?

Adam, I'm certainly not trying to deny the existence of racism in the Uk or in the USA or Australia-how could I? However my point is that there are genuine attempts to welcome and celebrate diversity in those countries in a way that just does not happen in France,Italy or Spain.And it doesn't only apply to food.In France cultural diversity is seen as a threat to French culture.There is a "correct",as you say of your Italian friends,,way of doing things,including eating .Any other way,therefore is,by definition,"incorrect" and to be treated with suspicion and disdain. This maybe partly springs from the power of the agricultural lobbies and their desire to protect their markets,but also because despite having colonies,those countries have seen far less immigration than the UK ,the USA and Australia and ,as Catholic countries they are maybe more--how shall I put it--- dogmatic(?) about the rights and wrongs of how things must be done.